Roam/Move "Bluetooth Stereo Pair"?

Currently None of SONOS speakers that have Bluetooth capability can do Stereo Pairing with another speaker.  The Era 100s, 300s and Move 2s can offer stereo on their own though.

To be clear, the speakers in question can be pair and connect over WiFi and play a bluetooth source as pair.  It’s when they are not connected to WiFi that they cannot act as a stereo pair, whether the source be bluetooth or line-in.

Such an annoyance. 

Being able to Bluetooth pair two Move2 would mean I wouldn't have to buy speakers that don't fit my ecosystem. 

Sort it out Sonos. This is a software issue only. 

Why is there always a limitation that other brands address as a matter of course? 

Thanks boys! 

Other brands don’t work over WiFi.  The need to bond 2 speakers together over WiFi when present, or bluetooth when not, assuming the other speaker is actually turned on and in bluetooth range, does complicate things a little bit more.  I’m not saying it’s not technically possible, but it does mean that whatever solution other brands use doesn’t automatically translate over to Sonos portable.

Thanks Corry!
I was about to launch another thread on other people’s success with a travel router/repeater, BUT..

This morning, I changed my hotspot wifi address to that of my home wifi.

Then turned off the home wifi and activated my hotspot.
I had to restart my Sonos gear, but then it attached to my hotspot.

THEN, I connected an old phone, with sonos installed, to my hotspot.

All my gear became visible and I played without issue using my phone hotspot as router and old android phone as controller.

It’s a bit of a pain and I immediately started looking for an android app that would work as a nfv facility (network function virtualisation) where the hotspot provides internet and the phone itself is both hotspot and part of the network.

Here’s a link to the thread, if you’re interested.
https://forums.androidcentral.com/threads/network-function-virtualisation-wtf-right.1072746/ 

Hi @WickedDNA 

An interesting idea! I doubt such an app could work without rooting (jail-breaking) said phone, however.

There may be something, but it’s the old problem that, when you’re on hotspot, you can’t log on to wifi.
On that basis, there’s likely to be nothing at all, but it’s worth asking the question.

My holiday would have been improved without the faff of using hotel wifi and having the extra quality.

I like to bathe in sound.

Hi @WickedDNA 

Ah - someone’s been watching Star Trek 😂

Well, if only your speakers could do that.
Less wear and tear on my mane.

Additional food for thought..
I realise that Sonos wants to keep up the quality and not play poor sound, eg. bluetooth, BUT isn’t the bit rate limited anyway?
Having just done a little research on putting together a FLAC collection on my PLEX server, it made little sense to do so in the end, as the bit rate is limited.

Surely, by this point, a bluetooth connection could handle the bit rate of a FLAC file?

Hi @WickedDNA 

Never say never!

Only Bluetooth aptX can play lossless CD quality audio, and that’s a pretty recent addition to the Bluetooth standard - presently, the only Sonos device that supports Bluetooth aptX is Ace headphones. Bluetooth aptX is limited to 1200Kbps, which is under that of FLAC, but it uses a similar technique to deliver lossless audio. Note that the Bluetooth host device must support it too, and that presently (as far as I am aware) means very new Android devices.

When using a travel router, you are using WiFi and therefore not limited by Bluetooth bandwidth.

Having said all that, it's actually pretty unlikely that you would be able to discern the difference anyway - you’d possibly need training and/or good hearing genes.

In terms of playing FLAC from Plex, I’m not aware of any bitrate limitations - if there are any, they are at the limit of FLAC files (1411 Kbps). I recently ripped some old CDs from the 90’s and made sure to use FLAC. I can’t currently play them to my Sonos system, but that seems to have more to do with my internet connection (CGNAT is used, which Plex warns against, and it all worked with my previous provider) than anything else.

I hope this helps.

It’s interesting..

I’ll admit to posting questions here because updating my knowledge on the minefield that is network protocols and bitrate compatibility is a nightmare.

...network convergence indeed, lol.

I read on the Sonos website that there is a 48kbps limit on what Sonos will play, though I had my head down the connectivity rabbit hole that day, so may have walked away slightly muddled.

I am impressed that, having added bin and cue files to plex, that the sonos app then recognises individual tracks.

The S2 app has had a lot of negative feedback, but I have to say, as a multiplatform media streamer, it’s very good. Simpler than the last app. 
I just wish I could see my playlists and content from YT and Spotify more easily. Sometimes I have to cross reference which is a bit of a pain, but otherwise, I’m very happy.

@WickedDNA 

I think you have misunderstood, yes. Sonos accepts sample rates of up to 48KHz. Although some equipment can go higher, it’s really only for mastering purposes (for manipulating audio before final recording). The human ear can’t really distinguish anything higher than that - to describe 20KHz (the highest frequency audible to humans) you need two samples in that 1/20,000th of a second, or a rate of 40KHz. 48KHz ensures a good sampling, and anything more than that is just fluff, really.

For your information, 48Kbps bitrate would probably sound like a phone call. Maybe a bit better.

I think that probably has more to do with Plex than Sonos.

Thanks for the feedback! It has, but it is a fact of life that when people are happy with something, they tend not to bring it up on a public forum - unless they already go there anyway and are asked.

Personally, I’ve had few issues with it since it’s launch in May, but there are certainly people still having a hard time with it - hopefully, those numbers are coming down significantly with each update.

Once the app is more reliable for more users, I’m sure that issues such as these will be addressed.

I hope this helps.

@Corry P:

 When it comes to the acceptance of a 48KHz sample rate at a bit depth of 24 some WAV files are not accepted.

 I agree that a sample rate of 48KHz is all that’s really needed for high quality sound.  The only issue I have is the lack of support for 48KHz on download sites.  The sample rate of 48KHz is very rarely listed as a purchase option for downloads.  Most often it is 96KHz or even 192KHz.  Yes, both of those could be deemed overkill, but I have systems that play those sample rates so many of my download purchases have been, for the most part, 96KHz.  BlueSound, another indexing system, is capable of playing up to 192KHz.  I just thought it would be cool if Sonos was able to at least support 96KHz.

Hi @MoPac 

I understand where you are coming from, and it does seem rather inconvenient if those options are what tend to be supplied, but doubling the sample rate doubles the bandwidth (and storage) needed to play, and when your main concern is delivering audio interruption-free for literal hours on end over a wireless network subject to nearby interference from the wireless networks of neighbours, you need to have a very good reason to double the bandwidth needed to play something, and an arguably-impossible-to-perceive-for-the-vast-majority difference in the sampling rate is just not one of them (in my opinion - there isn’t really any documentation on all this, but I think my reasoning is sound).

Nothing is set in stone of course - perhaps, with a larger install base of faster WiFi solutions out there in the future, we may re-evaluate this stance.

A typical, modern PC could convert an album of these files en-mass in mere moments, but if you don’t want to do that, perhaps suggest to the suppliers of the music you are buying to supply you (and others) with formats that you can use - if they supply multiple formats in the first place, then they are already performing this task with every new track they add to their library. In fact, they may even just keep one maximum-quality file and convert it to the required format on-demand. If this is the case, all they need to do is add one more profile to the converter - it would likely take one of their technicians 3 minutes to complete the task that would result in their entire library being available in that format.

But...WAV files? Why? They are uncompressed (in the vast majority of the time) and as such, are not only a waste of storage space, but also of bandwidth - not just when playing, but when downloading in the first place - and as result, a waste of your time too (waiting for the download). I rather suspect that wherever you are downloading from may be expecting to sell mainly to people who intend to remix a song and republish it - we’re back to mastering again! Even so, FLAC would be more efficient. I have to say you have lost me a little with the WAV files!

 I believe music streaming is not much of a load on WiFi.  I was streaming DSD 512 before I sold the equipment capable of that before moving to another state.  I now have KEF LS50 WII speakers and have no issues streaming 24/192 files.  This is with a ISP gateway & one extender.  The KEF system is connected via the extender.

 I have no desire to batch convert to 48.  I did, however, create a folder named For Sonos and within that folder are down converted copies of tracks that are used in duplicate M3U playlists.  So I have several playlists I have created over the years that now have a copy with the suffix ( Sonos ).  Those Sonos specific playlists have the down converted paths written in where necessary.

 I play music mostly from playlists so the above work around is a good solution for me.  Unfortunately to “Willy Nilly” pick an album from my library to play may not work well if I don’t know if it is compatible due to the sample rate limitations of the Sonos system.

Hi @MoPac 

Oh, it really isn’t! Not on most people’s WiFi, anyway. However, doing so consistently and for hours is another matter, especially when sharing to multiple speakers and with other traffic going on. And while you may be able to do so without issue, that does not mean that the other 16 million Sonos users can! Throw in uncompressed audio data, however, and it’s a different ball game - especially as the compression effectively works as a secondary input buffer further reducing the likelihood of underflows.