Enthusiast I

Sonos Company Ethicacy, Morality and Integrity Core Values?

132 replies
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In the aftermath of the CR100 debacle it may be helpful to discuss the direction and methods taken by Sonos management to achieve their end goal of retiring the CR100 by force and the impact on and perception of customers future buying decisions

They still have not made it clear in any believable way why they forced this issue which leaves many people puzzled and angry at the rendering useless of their legally owned equipment.

Personally , this is a first for me . I have never owned a product previously that I have bought that has been rendered useless by the creators period,. Far less easy to swallow is the subterfuge of the battery non issue to cover an ulterior motive. This makes the company Sonos look untrustworthy at best . If you have a reason for doing this , spit it out and let people know. I believe that I, as the purchaser gets to decide when it is time to retire my own possession. I have a belief that quality equipment that was sold as a quality product to prospective buyers should be subject to end of life decision only by the buyer and no one else.

I struggle with the management decisions taken that force me to re-evaluate my investment in their goods within my home.
Prior to the CR100 execution , I viewed my home audio system as an asset to my home , something that simply worked and worked well with minimal intervention required from me which is pretty much what I expect from audio equipment . Now I view the lifespan of this investment as something which looks like is beyond my control even if the equipment is still functioning regardless of my desire to maintain that .

The support aspect of this situation where Sonos staff went into hiding and avoided direct questions from concerned customers has to go down as a low point in any companies record in dealing with their best ambassadors.

These are just a few points that caused me to raise this topic for discussion regarding the ethicacy and morality and integrity of the current Sonos operation...any one of the the issues I have listed above would make Sonos or any other company ineligible for consideration for future investment either in business or in domestic life for this individual.

What do others think....? Please keep the thread social.

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Smilja

[...] That, my friends, is why Sonos is not, and could now never hope to be, the company that Apple is... - Apple will get more of my custom in the future, Sonos will not. End of.

Have you read through this topic? Be prepared, you won't be able to re-install older apps as well.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)

TJRL

Renowned Enthusiast II

Ah so this is just another CR100 thread then :(

I hope not!!

Sonos have moved their position in the market over the years as you would expect any company to do. But there does seem to be a pattern emerging that makes me feel uncomfortable at times. Going back many years these very forums where changed because, we were advised at the time, of scalability and to make the "user experience" better.

Many forum members offered suggestions and comments (e.g. please bring back a "post preview" option) on the changes but no action was made to accommodate them other than the now familiar "we are listening and your views are important to us".

Roll forward to today and this forum is still a shadow of its formal self, much harder to use as an exchange of ideas and search through, BUT arguably better (than the original forum and "Ask Sonos") for new users who have set-up issues. Back in 2005 there were very few set-up questions on the original forum, but as the Sonos offering evolved so did the complexity of setting things up (SoundBar was so hard that there was a dedicated help-line and very good they were too!). With hindsight you could put forward the argument that Sonos were therefore correct to change the forum even against the desire of the then current user base notwithstanding that the whole look, feel and use of the forum was changed.

So was the aim of that "update" to the original forum to give the users a "better experience" (as advised at the time) or to allow for better set-up solving for new Sonos users (which Sonos knew would become more important over time)?

If the latter, was Sonos morally right not to give the real reason? :?

7x CR100, 2x CR200, 5x SP100, 1x ZP80, 7x ZP100, 1x iPod Dock, 1x Boost, 4x Play 1, 3x Play 3, 2x Play 5, 1x PlayBar & 1x Sub.

Kumar

If the latter, was Sonos morally right not to give the real reason?

Even if the answer to the above is no, morally they were not right, what next? If I needed another play 1, I would still buy one. Wouldn't you?

Although I still think that this community software sucks and the old forum was a much better place for everyone including noob users...

Kumar

Hmm... close to useless?... -

the company that Apple is... - Apple will get more of my custom in the future, Sonos will not. End of.

Where I still need Apple functionality, I too will still buy Apple, but knowing that I may again suffer the same fate as I did with the close to useless iPod Touch. Close to useless also because it - a 2011 model - can also not be used to store Apple Music songs for offline listening, something that has nothing to do with Sonos. If it did that, I could use it as a source in the car or on holiday with my bluetooth portable. But no, Apple has seen it fit to now allow its 2011 model to work with Apple Music. Technically a different approach that does not brick it, but in effect, a similar result. In which case, what's to gain by moaning about it?

Paul Gordon

Enthusiast II

[...] That, my friends, is why Sonos is not, and could now never hope to be, the company that Apple is... - Apple will get more of my custom in the future, Sonos will not. End of.

Have you read through this topic? Be prepared, you won't be able to re-install older apps as well.

Well, really not relevant... - my ipod touch is a music storage & playback device... it's not even on my WiFi - which I believe does reach the garage, so perhaps I can connect it up & see if I can get any streaming service or internet radio players to run on it... if I can, great, if not... who cares, it has some 500+ tracks on it now, and when I get time I'll increase that to a couple of thousand or so...

It sits there, offline, always charging, with enough music on it to be left in repeat-shuffle mode that I can go weeks without hearing the same song twice, and short of hardware failure of the device, nothing than anyone does or tries to do can affect that functionality...

I don't have, or use any apps on it, other than the built-in OS-level music player, playing my own legally owned music ripped as MP3s & copied onto the device. I expect it to go on serving in its current capacity for many more years to come.

YMMV...

SAVE THE CR100!!

Paul Gordon

Enthusiast II

[...] That, my friends, is why Sonos is not, and could now never hope to be, the company that Apple is... - Apple will get more of my custom in the future, Sonos will not. End of.

Have you read through this topic? Be prepared, you won't be able to re-install older apps as well.

I have just fully read that topic top to bottom, and in fact, I suspect I have thoroughly debunked it as FUD... - to save you all the effort of going over there & finding my refutation post, I'll reproduce it here for you...

"Err... wait a minute... - I have just read the announcement in the link.. - to save everyone the effort of going there, here's the entirety of the text to be found there:

"iOS 11 delivers innovative features and the redesigned App Store to hundreds of millions of customers around the world. Your apps can deliver more intelligent, unified, and immersive experiences with Core ML, ARKit, new camera APIs, new SiriKit domains, Apple Music integration, drag and drop for iPad, and more. Starting July 2018, all iOS app updates submitted to the App Store must be built with the iOS 11 SDK and must support the Super Retina display of iPhone X."

Now, English is my first language, and I think I have a pretty good grasp of it, and to my mind, I see NOTHING there that suggests or outright states that END USERS of apps coming down TO their devices FROM the app store, have to running iOS11... - what it does plainly state, TO DEVELOPERS is that app DEVELOPERS must BUILD their apps and submit them TO the appstore with the iOS11 DEV KIT...

This announcement is on the DEVELOPERS website... - it is not an announcement to the millions of Apple device users who are consumers of those apps... it is not an announcement piped at users when they go to the appstore, nor is it in the iTunes release notes (AFAICT).

Therefore, is this not, in fact, just blatant FUD-mongering? - If anyone can point out an announcement from Apple that supports the assertion made in the opening post, then I'm happy to be corrected on any/all of my interpretations of the situation."

SAVE THE CR100!!

stevecomp3

Enthusiast II

Perhaps you missed the battery issue .

Your understandig of the term "lie" is quite odd.

funny,
any form of diversion, is a lie......
1: "for your safety and at the risk of fire" I call BS on that
2:"due to the aging CPU that is failing" So all my ZP100's using the exact same CPU is also failing?

these were LIES......
if you have children, how would you describe this?

(8) CR100, (2) CR200, (2) ZP80, (6) ZP100, (2) Play5, (1) Play1 paid for and maintained with my own money, No one has the right to tell me I need to throw it away!

stevecomp3

Enthusiast II

I must admit that I am one of those that is capable of my own repair as I am a component level tech for over 40 years, used to own a consumer electronics repair shop, and am now an IT consultant. so technically I DO ALL my own repairs and continue to use gear that most have tossed away years ago.

I can see why you still feel like you could purchase from Apple again, Apple did not "brick" your IPod Touch, so in my book, the same issue does not apply.

Steve, with your skills, you are well placed to keep old equipment in service, but you must know you are a rare exception. And one that is getting even more rare given the nature of design/construction of modern kit, compared to amps of yesteryear that were more easily repaired with parts that were more easily available. Sonos, as do all other makes, do not have too many like you in their target market. And I doubt you will be differently served by any other make when you decide you need more kit.

As to the iPod touch, it was being used largely as a Sonos Controller host; now I cannot so use it, because it will not access iTunes to get the latest Controller version. So, I can no longer use it in the manner. To me, someone has done the same thing to it as has been done to the CR100.

Kumar,
good points, and I agree, I am not the typical user and am not a revolving buyer of anything. (much to the dismay of my kids who over time never had the "latest and greatest"
as a side note, my repair shop was open in the 80's and 90's, and was shut down as I saw the change of durable goods to disposable goods take place and what was once a $300+ consumer item that anyone would pay $85 to fix became a cheap $65 item and you could not economically fix (VCR's were the perfect example)
NONE of these Sonos items are low cost, and that is another reason why this issue is insulting to some.

in your case, with the Touch, Apple is having to move forward with software for their entire music service, your touch depends on the service to provide the music.
in the CR100, this was a Controller first, and then over time they added streaming services to the CR100 and made the unit much more functional. this was great.
Take away ALL the streaming add-ons they put into the unit and it would STILL be a controller for the base system and for people hosting their own files on their own network.
Your Touch actually depended on a service to operate, the CR100 was the UI for the original system and technically did not.
what (in my opinion) people are missing is these units were $350+ (with the dock) and had a defined purpose. The least Sonos could have done is to remove all the added streaming services and allow those of us with the CR100 to retain the use of the original UI.
the best option would be to allow for a legacy firmware path that would keep us at the ~8.2 level.

I hate to see the end of any good working piece of gear, but in every case it should be my choice, call me a dinosaur......

(8) CR100, (2) CR200, (2) ZP80, (6) ZP100, (2) Play5, (1) Play1 paid for and maintained with my own money, No one has the right to tell me I need to throw it away!

Kumar

It sits there, offline, always charging, with enough music on it to be left in repeat-shuffle mode that I can go weeks without hearing the same song twice, and short of hardware failure of the device, nothing than anyone does or tries to do can affect that functionality...

If you are fine with just that functionality, I agree you will see many years from it. Or not. My classic iPod crashed a year ago, HDD failure, so there is that.

But these days I don't buy new music, now that I find Apple Music serving all those needs. And also allowing offline storage for playing it in the car or on travels. Fortunately I have a handed down to me iPhone 5s that serves for just this application, but the iPod touch from 2011 will not.

Kumar

Take away ALL the streaming add-ons they put into the unit and it would STILL be a controller for the base system and for people hosting their own files on their own network.

Good point, but not doing this, IMO, does not make Sonos immoral. Did they lie in this case - I can't say, I haven't tracked the CR100 subject. I don't see them doing anything very different from other makes, is the only point I am making.

IMO also by the way, all the controller upgrades they do is just a lot of noise with little forward motion. Take away a few things like Trueplay and I would say no forward motion for all the upgrade noise and heat since the time I have had Sonos from 2011. Fortunately, my upgrade process is robust, so this is just a minor irritant for me.

Now if my two Connect Amps were to ever be bricked in the coming years by Sonos.......

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