Escalation of support when phone support cannot resolve

  • 22 September 2023
  • 12 replies
  • 168 views
Stuart_W
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

I have 14 Sonos units (1 unplugged) and have over recent years experienced poorer performance with multiple drop-outs, refusal to connect, lost speakers and so on.

I’ve spent a lot of time with telephone support but feel progress is slow. Over the ears I’ve been told to

 

  1. Replace Bridge with Boost
  2. Wire a Sonos unit to router
  3. Remove Boost
  4. Un-wire Sonos unit and connect directly to Wi-Fi
  5. Then more recently it was gently suggested I consider a Wi-Fi mesh would be a good idea - I duly bought a TP-Link system and then when I continued to have issues Sonos suggested I change the channel only to discover this system chooses automatically and cannot change manually.
  6. Wire a unit - After that last suggestion last week I decided to move one of the TP-Link nodes near my new ERA 100s and wire that. - Nope. Need additional hardware to do that now. So I connected to one of my Play 3s (It means the node is not roughly midday between the main router and most distant ERA100 so presume not ideal).
     
  7. Then today I was told ideally I need to wire at least 2 units to a router. I noted this was the first time that had been suggested.

 

I recognise that Sonos units are having to work in an increasingly congested radio spectrum but I live in a small village so I can’t believe my spectrum is as congested as one in a city might be.

If wiring the SL One to the TP-Link node doesn’t resolve the major issues I’ve been having then I’m at the stage when I probably need somebody with good technical knowledge of the Sonos system, wireless networks and interference and who has access to a spectrum analyser and the Sonos diagnostic data. I’ve spent many thousands of pounds on this system and my expectation at this point is that Sonos should provide that on-site support - either Sonos people or they should sub-contract somebody on their behalf to contact me. But as it is they’ve just told me to find a nearby installer and engage them - obviously I can do that but it is going to cost me and frankly I’m pretty unhappy about that.

Are Sonos able to provide better support once telephone support has reached the end of what they can do? If I get asked to turn off and on all units one more time I might just implode!

Arc + Sub (Gen 1) + 2 x Play 1/ Stereo Play 3s/ Era 100 Stereo in Kitchen, One Stereo in Bedroom, SL One in Study, Play 1in Bathroom & Conservatory
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12 replies

buzz

Older units, such as the ONE SL’s and BOOST’s can be part of SonosNet, a private SONOS wireless mesh system. ERA units, MOVE, and ROAM will not join this wireless ecosystem. Wiring multiple SonosNet capable units will improve the robustness of SonosNet.

I’m not a TP-Link user, but it is generally a bad idea to wire a SONOS unit to a 3rd party mesh point. Wire SONOS units to the router or a network switch wired to the router.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @Stuart_W 

Thanks for your post!

You obviously feel like you are not gaining any ground with the issues you’re having with your Sonos system, and that is understandable. I have flagged your existing case with some colleagues and you will hear from them via email in the next few days.

In the meantime, I’m sure you’re about to get some more excellent advice from our community members like @buzz.

You may also find my article of use:

I hope this helps.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
ratty

I’ve used a handful of TP-Link extenders and access points in the past (along with ASUS and Netgear), and had generally good results. I never connected any Sonos units to an extender, for well-known reasons. When I moved to a mesh I shied away from TP-Link, in large part due to the absence of configuration options and the requirement to use an online account.

Which TP-Link mesh is it? It is in router or AP mode? 

Which Sonos units are now wired, and to where?

Stuart_W
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

I’ve used a handful of TP-Link extenders and access points in the past (along with ASUS and Netgear), and had generally good results. I never connected any Sonos units to an extender, for well-known reasons. When I moved to a mesh I shied away from TP-Link, in large part due to the absence of configuration options and the requirement to use an online account.

Which TP-Link mesh is it? It is in router or AP mode? 

Which Sonos units are now wired, and to where?

Hi Ratty

 

It’s a TP-Link E4 Deco whole home wi-fi system with 3 units. It’s in Access Point mode. One of the nodes is wired into the left hand speaker of a Play 3 downstairs and now I‘ve plugged in a One SL into the upstairs node.

 

Thanks for the feedback by all appreciated.

Throws up these comments:-

  1. Sonos reps didn’t mention at all not to wire a mesh node to a Sonos unit (I assume in AP it’s the same as wiring to the main router) or that it’s a bad idea to do that. What do Sonos expect us to do - Lay wires from the main router around the house?
  2. No mention that Era100 can’t be wired to the router - indeed the Sonos website tells you to buy an adapter so to do!!!!

Let’s see what the escalation achieves.

Arc + Sub (Gen 1) + 2 x Play 1/ Stereo Play 3s/ Era 100 Stereo in Kitchen, One Stereo in Bedroom, SL One in Study, Play 1in Bathroom & Conservatory
ratty

It’s inadvisable to wire multiple SonosNet devices to different WiFi mesh nodes. In the best case it forces Sonos to use the mesh wireless backhaul to interconnect the players, when it thinks it has Ethernet all the way. This can sometimes result in dropouts in groups. In the worst case (in terms of mesh throughput) it can lead to SonosNet bypassing the wireless backhaul entirely, if the mesh uses STP and it fights with SonosNet’s version.

Era doesn’t participate in SonosNet, so you may be able to get away with wiring that to anywhere nearby.

 

What happens if you just let Sonos connect to the WiFi entirely, removing all wired connections? The controller will tell you which node each player has attached to, and the signal strength.

If you want to persevere with SonosNet, what does the network matrix look like?

 

If you’d like to wait until Sonos Support responds that’s totally understandable. They can see the system from the inside.

Stuart_W
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

It’s inadvisable to wire multiple SonosNet devices to different WiFi mesh nodes. In the best case it forces Sonos to use the mesh wireless backhaul to interconnect the players, when it thinks it has Ethernet all the way. This can sometimes result in dropouts in groups. In the worst case (in terms of mesh throughput) it can lead to SonosNet bypassing the wireless backhaul entirely, if the mesh uses STP and it fights with SonosNet’s version.

Era doesn’t participate in SonosNet, so you may be able to get away with wiring that to anywhere nearby.

 

What happens if you just let Sonos connect to the WiFi entirely, removing all wired connections? The controller will tell you which node each player has attached to, and the signal strength.

If you want to persevere with SonosNet, what does the network matrix look like?

 

If you’d like to wait until Sonos Support responds that’s totally understandable. They can see the system from the inside.

Thanks Ratty

No idea why Sonos didn’t tell me that!. I had Sonos connected to wi-fi only after Sonos told me to get rid of the Boost which I sold on E-Bay but I was having problems with drop-outs and so on. Their tech mentioned Wi-Fi mesh which is why I went down the TP-Link route. Perhaps I should re-wire my house and have ethernet ports in each room which I can wire directly to the BT router. But that would be several thousand pounds!
Here is the matrix with the 2 units still wired to the node. To be honest I’m bloody furious tech support had me wiring those two units when you’re basically telling me it’s a no-no!

I’m much more of the opinion Sonos should be paying for an installer with a spectral analyser to come and visit. I’m frankly tired of being told the opposite of what I was told previous calls to do!

 

I then unplugged the Play 3 Dining Room and play stopped. Unplugged the SL One and here is the matrix:-
 

 

Arc + Sub (Gen 1) + 2 x Play 1/ Stereo Play 3s/ Era 100 Stereo in Kitchen, One Stereo in Bedroom, SL One in Study, Play 1in Bathroom & Conservatory
ratty

The matrix when wired actually looks okay. Transient bursts of interference could of course upset things.

A matrix when unwired is a bit meaningless, and in any case the speakers would all need several minutes to reconnect to the WiFi. Some might need powercycling to give them a kick. The info in the controller is a useful guide as to connection quality (Settings>System>room>Products>device>Network).

buzz

It’s unfortunate that the newest models do not report to the Network Matrix. Nothing show stopping is indicated here. ODFM ANI level 0 (a measure of interference) is best, 9 is worst. While scary, I’ve had level 9 units working satisfactorily. The overall takeaway from your Matrix is that no serious interference is indicated for the units shown. The diagnostics available to SONOS staff have more detail.

In the case above where most units have disappeared, have you given WiFi credentials to the system?

Keep a log of events. I once was able to correlate severe, intermittent issues with my neighbor’s use of a cordless phone.

Stuart_W
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

It’s unfortunate that the newest models do not report to the Network Matrix. Nothing show stopping is indicated here. ODFM ANI level 0 (a measure of interference) is best, 9 is worst. While scary, I’ve had level 9 units working satisfactorily. The overall takeaway from your Matrix is that no serious interference is indicated for the units shown. The diagnostics available to SONOS staff have more detail.

In the case above where most units have disappeared, have you given WiFi credentials to the system?

Keep a log of events. I once was able to correlate severe, intermittent issues with my neighbor’s use of a cordless phone.

Yes I think keeping a log may be helpful to flush out if it’s a single issue. Maybe my neighbour’s caretake in rabbit microwaving orgies every few hours! 

Arc + Sub (Gen 1) + 2 x Play 1/ Stereo Play 3s/ Era 100 Stereo in Kitchen, One Stereo in Bedroom, SL One in Study, Play 1in Bathroom & Conservatory
Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

It isn’t so much your city size that matters to WiFi since it is so short ranged. Usually anything past a few hundred feet isn’t an issue.

Noisy neighbors are often the issue but it can even be self inflicted. I fought issues for a while and the solution was to unplug nearby devices, even ones with no radio, and see if things got better. My culprit was an external hard drive with no radio, just shoddy design. Off and all worked, plugged in and sitting within a few feet of a Sonos and it got the dropouts.

buzz

Yes I think keeping a log may be helpful to flush out if it’s a single issue. Maybe my neighbour’s caretake in rabbit microwaving orgies every few hours! 

When in diagnostic mode once you’ve decided that the problem must be [ … ] or cannot be [ … ] you are likely to be blindsided.

In my teens there was a TV channel from a city in the next state that was difficult to watch due to visible interference. We lived on a hill and receiving the station was practical with an outside antenna. At the top of the hill was an FM station. The FM station was not on the air 24/7 and when the FM station was not broadcasting, the TV picture was clear. This was an issue for everyone in the area while attempting to watch that channel, it was not a specific issue with our TV. Using a little radio theory and some math it was easy to predict the interference. The station management did not enjoy having a teen show up at the station, complaining about their interference. I was dismissed. One day for several hours I noticed that the interference was gone while the FM station was on the air. My interference theory was smashed. However, after applying some more math and additional research, I discovered a taxi company transmitter that was inline between our antenna and the TV station and, after applying the math, I could show that the taxi frequency, combined with the FM transmitter, would result in interference with the TV station. Not long after my discovery we moved out of that area and left the problem behind.

Bottom line: keep an open mind.

Stuart_W
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

I wanted to update this thread.

 

Sonos reached out to me via e-mail and asked me to arrange a time for a phone call. On the day the chap I’d expected to call couldn’t due to an internet outage but I did get a call and I ran a load of scenarios for them to gather diagnostic data. They asked me to remove the hardwired Playbar and re-enable Wi-Fi, remove the sub. I ran that for several days and then they asked me to remove the surrounds. This went on for 2 to 3 weeks and eventually the Playbar actually stopped responding at all after it had begun to emit regular clicking whilst watching TV (At this point I decided the Playbar had a hardware fault). Sonos were adamant that this wan’t the case and the escalated support were very cold on the notion of wireless interference which I was happy about.

 

Ultimately it was escalated further a which point it was determined that “The Playbar hadn’t updated”. At this point you might well imagine I had some questions but I have to say support were very fair with me so I didn’t explore this avenue at all.

I now have a refurbished Arc, Gen 1 Sub and Play 1 surrounds. I do have some media with Atmos so I expect I’ll end up replacing the Play 1s with Era300s as the pull will be high!

Arc + Sub (Gen 1) + 2 x Play 1/ Stereo Play 3s/ Era 100 Stereo in Kitchen, One Stereo in Bedroom, SL One in Study, Play 1in Bathroom & Conservatory
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