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Frustrated with music integration Thumbs up / down (YTM) RANT

S
Userlevel 2
  • Sjar
  • Contributor II
  • 6 replies

I am getting totally frustrated with Sonos.  As a system, I think they sound and work great.  Their ability to Integrate with third party music services is beyond horrible.  It sort of reminds me of the old days with my Squeezebox (Logitech Media Server), The LMS was indeed powerful, but needed constant babysitting to do what you needed/wanted it to do and to keep it running, but it had a nice user community that were able to contribute.  I don’t miss all the trouble shooting I had to do, but I do miss the support from the user community.

 

So lets move on, and after this gets posted, I’m sure a representative from Sonos will kindly post a reply along the lines of “thank you for reaching out to us bla bla bla…./  we will forward that to our development team bla bla bla…./  we are currently looking into that, but have no ETA into your problem...bla bla bla.  I’ve noticed that sort of recurring answer here on the Sonos boards, polite yes, helpful no.  This Is a major frustration I have reading these message boards.

Onto the the reason I posted in the first place,  When I am in the Sonos app, accessing YouTubeMusic, I do not have the ability to Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down a track, it is totally absent.  But works fine in the standalone YoutubeMusic app.

I have read countless posts regarding this missing feature:

  1. It’s a google problem and they need to fix YTM
  1. It’s a Sonos problem and they need to integrate it

      Not sure which side I believe, I imagine  Sonos has no interest in fixing this because they want to push their Sonos stations.  I also can see where Google has no interest in resolving this either, as they are pushing home speakers also. Even if I could just cast to the speakers directly  from the YTM app, it would be a start in the right direction.  This issues is over a year old and has not seen any love.  Please tell me if I’m just complaining and woke up on the wrong side of the bed, or Someone is dragging their feet for whatever reason.

A very frustrated Sonos owner.

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Best answer by jgatie 26 May 2021, 17:46

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10 replies

G
Userlevel 7

If the inability to thumbs up or thumbs down a track using YouTube Music is your biggest complaint with Sonos’ music service integration, I think you may have woken up on the wrong side of the bed.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
jgatie

 

  1. It’s a google problem and they need to fix YTM
  1. It’s a Sonos problem and they need to integrate it

      Not sure which side I believe, I imagine  Sonos has no interest in fixing this because they want to push their Sonos stations.  I also can see where Google has no interest in resolving this either, as they are pushing home speakers also. Even if I could just cast to the speakers directly  from the YTM app, it would be a start in the right direction.  This issues is over a year old and has not seen any love.  Please tell me if I’m just complaining and woke up on the wrong side of the bed, or Someone is dragging their feet for whatever reason.

A very frustrated Sonos owner.

 

Believe the bolded (1) - https://developer.sonos.com/build/content-service-get-started/

As you can see from the developer pages, Sonos supplies an API (SMAPI) that the music provider uses to integrate their service within the Sonos app.  All UI features, such as thumbs up/down, are the responsibility of the service provider, if they exist in the API, and thumbs up/down is definitely in the API, as it is used by other services like Pandora. 

And although Sonos can pass this request along, there is no way they can force YouTube to implement this feature, so your best bet is to lobby YouTube directly.  Ditto with casting from the YouTube app, that is also a feature of the Sonos API that a service can implement, if they wish. 

Airgetlam

Just as a random thought, it’s entirely possible that Google, or certain divisions of it, aren’t overly excited by dealing with issues on their Sonos integration at this moment, due to the lawsuit that Sonos has filed about Google appropriating some of their patents. Pure speculation on my part, but as jgatie suggests, the complaints about the integration should be with YTM/Google, since that API/code is working fine with other streaming companies using Sonos.

Pure speculation on my part, mind you. I have no knowledge, directly, or indirectly, as to why the YTM integration isn’t up to the same standards as the previous Google Music was.   

Bruce
S
Userlevel 2

Thanks both jgatie and Airgetlam for your reply and enlightenment of the situation.  I guess when you break it down, if you own your music physically (records, CD, cassette...), there is really not an issue playing it on a Sonos system, or any other system for that matter.  The problems begins when you have to interact with dozens of third party interfaces.  This entire situation is fragmented all over the place, I guess I’m some what impressed that it works as well as it does taking all the factors into consideration, but disappointed that it does not work up to my expectations.  Not sure how it will work out in the end…

Thanks

 

Airgetlam

One certainly would hope that all companies would play well together in the playground. It unfortunately doesn’t always work out that way. 

One way I tend to look at it is Sonos is a TV set, and the various services are the channels my TV plays. It’s not up to the TV manufacturer to decide what you see, they just present the data they’re fed, it’s really up to whomever is the streamer. 

Sonos (or in the TV analogy, Vizio) has no control over what YouTube Music (HBO) sends them, they just show what is fed to them. 

There’s a little more complexity than that of course, as each stream needs to have the Sonos music API integrated in their server so that it can feed the Sonos software data it can interpret, but there are varying levels of compliance in the full feature set, and the YTM folks have chosen, it appears, to the absolute minimum. 

If you’re interested in more data about the SMAPI, you might want to look at the Sonos partners page.

Bruce
controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

\Their ability to Integrate with third party music services is beyond horrible.

You are kidding, right: Name any other speaker system (or app) that can communicate with ~70 different music services all over the globe, and presents a consistent interface over all of them.

That fact that you are using a music service that doesn’t give two hoots about their Sonos integration is unfortunate, but it sure is not Sonos’ fault.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
S
Userlevel 2

\Their ability to Integrate with third party music services is beyond horrible.

You are kidding, right: Name any other speaker system (or app) that can communicate with ~70 different music services all over the globe, and presents a consistent interface over all of them.

 

Well I look at it a little differently,   According to Sonos and what their promote on this page:

https://www.sonos.com/en-us/listen-your-way

 

“Sonos works with all the services you know and love. Stream Apple Music, Spotify, Amazon Music, Audible, Deezer, Pandora, TuneIn, iHeartRadio, Google Play Music, YouTube Music, and many more. “

 

When reading that, I would assume that there is full integration, they don’t put any “*” or fine print that says may not be fully compatible with all the features the native app provides.  Sonos definitely deserves some of the blame and should not be let off the hook because its works mostly with 70 other services.  I get it, the whole debacle with Google is a mess, but they need to be a little clearer about that.

I’m stuck with Youtube music at the moment, I’m on the family plan and the kids accounts are tied to it and youtube premium is included, so It’s economical and a good value and works for me.  I’m sure others are in a similar boat with whatever provider they use.

All I am saying is Sonos needs to own up to the shortcomings, and say we are not fully integrated with Youtube music.  Just give me an asterisk next to the service and list its issues.

Horrible may be a poor choice to describe it and a bit too harsh, but Sonos is not being fully transparent with what it can and can not do.  My opinions is they are not telling the full truth and hide issues through omission.

Sonos is not bad by any means, and I have had fewer issues with it than my Slimserver setup I had run for the last 13 years, but it is not the end all be all that some make it out to be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

K

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Sonos is not bad by any means, and I have had fewer issues with it than my Slimserver setup I had run for the last 13 years, but it is not the end all be all that some make it out to be

Of course it is not the end all and be all; in buying it you are choosing one aspect of a compromise and each user has to make their own choice.

Choice in this case would be buying hardware from one of the service providers - Google/Amazon/Apple and getting the best integration with the provided service. The other choice is Sonos, which is not a service provider in a significant way and seeks to serve all. But in so doing, you lose the benefits of the aforesaid tight integration.

Note though that Amazon Music does offer casting into Sonos hardware - the last I checked - and notwithstanding all the claims that are always made here by Sonos fans, I am pretty sure that this was a joint effort by two willing companies that saw value for themselves in it. 

And it is no surprise that perhaps the best integration is offered by a service provider that is not into hardware - Spotify.

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

And it is no surprise that perhaps the best integration is offered by a service provider that is not into hardware - Spotify.

Even Spotify are a little bit slacking - the putting of your music at the end of the list, and the lack of sane sorting for some items. I think Pandora do a good job, even though Sonos originally used the Pandora-specific API and Pandora had to switch over to SMAPI eventually.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
K

Even Spotify are a little bit slacking - the putting of your music at the end of the list, and the lack of sane sorting for some items. 

I just use the Spotify native app, and cast to target Sonos speakers/groups. So what I get from Spotify is what is available to all Spotify users, not just to those that use Sonos and the Sonos controller contained integration. Native app is my preferred way, to be able to use all the features including the latest improvements in the native app.

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