Yet another Sonos own goal conundrum; SYMFONISK Stereo or Surrounds!

K
Badge +1

OK. I just bought a pair of SYMFONISK bookshelf speakers, great price, nice looking, Sonos electronics, what could be better? Basically these are to be used as stereo and surrounds in the lounge in our holiday home in Spain. Smallish lounge etc. Perfect behind the settee facing the Beam under the TV. One thing I didn't check, & why would I as my HomePod Minis do this automatically, was when not used via the TV & Beam they’d perform instantly as ordinary stereo speakers. After all, who’d want a pair of good looking decent speakers sitting there all day doing nothing? Sigh. So after creating a stereo pair I join them as surrounds with the Beam, easy peasy. Then play my music. They're silent, gulp.

Then I think, oh no Sonos strikes again! Yep. It’s all or nothing. Just like the ‘not being able to join two different speakers as a pair’ even though the kit inside is identical etc’, and all the other can’t do’s in the Sonos range. And despite ‘updating’ technology. 

So I eventually navigate the App, as everything has mysteriously disappeared apart from the Beam under ‘Lounge’; I find the SYMFONISK has also separated their stereo bond. And there’s not even a simple ‘toggle’ control of any kind to switch between stereo & surround. Why Sonos why? This means every time I want to watch TV I have to add the SYMFONISK as surrounds and then disengage them and reset the stereo pair for daytime music use……

If Apple can do it….? If only Apple made a sound bar?

Yes I’m am disappointed. The set is easy, the sound is lovely, the functionality … leaves a LOT to be desired!!!

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20 replies

melvimbe

Take a look at this support article.   Sounds like you want to set music playback to Full.  No, you can’t play music on the rear surround speakers and not your Beam, but you can adjust the volume balance so that music comes mostly from the rear surrounds.

When you bonded your symfonisk speakers to the Beam, you added them to the existing Lounge room. This is done so that volume, tuning, etc treats the setup as a single room.   It’s completely different than grouping two rooms together. 

The comparison to Apple seems rather strange, but I guess if you didn’t understand the functionality of Sonos, it would sort of apply.  I don’t think Apple is going to come out with a  soundbar anytime soon, atleast on not one that connects to the TV using non-Apple tech.

 

Danny
K
Badge +1

The sound dominance isn’t an issue. And I know how to sound balance the speakers, that’s also not the issue. I also know how to use the group function as well.

What I’m saying is not possible to toggle easily on Sonos between the two modes (surround or stereo) neither is the Sonos system or speakers intelligent enough to do it automatically.

Thus comparison to Apple which is intelligent… Home pod Minis automatically join Apple TV AND will operate as a stereo sound bar picking out voice in theatre mode or in music mode playing stereo. No adjusting or switching necessary. 

I’d say I over estimated the technical advancement and functionality in the Sonos speaker system. Hence the title Sonos own gaol. Perhaps it should have been Sonos fail to provide functionality again!

Let me add yours was a unhelpful, very condescending & patronising reply. 

Ken_Griffiths

"So after creating a stereo pair I join them as surrounds with the Beam, easy peasy. Then play my music. They're silent, gulp."

You are perhaps mistaken in your comment here (or something else is amiss) it’s simply not possible to create a stereo pair of speakers and then ‘bond’ that pair to your Beam. Quite the contrary, you must unpair the speakers and then bond them as surrounds. Maybe that’s why they’re silent (perhaps🤔?)

melvimbe

The sound dominance isn’t an issue. And I know how to sound balance the speakers, that’s also not the issue. I also know how to use the group function as well.

 

 

Your first post made it sound as if you didn’t know there was a setting to switch from ambient to full when playing music for your surround speakers.  That’s not exactly the same thing as balance, and not at all related to grouping two rooms together.

 

What I’m saying is not possible to toggle easily on Sonos between the two modes (surround or stereo) neither is the Sonos system or speakers intelligent enough to do it automatically.

 

 

If you have the room set to Full, then the rear surrounds will play stereo when sourced for music.  ‘Music’ being anything not coming from the TV.  When it is a TV source, the surrounds will play surround channels if any are present.

 

Thus comparison to Apple which is intelligent… Home pod Minis automatically join Apple TV AND will operate as a stereo sound bar picking out voice in theatre mode or in music mode playing stereo. No adjusting or switching necessary. 

 

 

 Your homepods aren’t playing surround sound, and are playing stereo regardless.  Perhaps your Apple TV is sending different audio via airplay, depending on the content playing, don’t.  Sonos gets the audio from the TV and plays what it’s given.  Perhaps you want stereo sources from TV to play stereo on the rear surrounds as well?  Ok, but I haven’t seen that as a big problem since me, and most other people, streaming music directly to the speakers, not through the TV. 

Again, if you have setting to Full, streaming sources and TV sources will automatically switch between surround duty and playing stereo, depending on source.

 

I’d say I over estimated the technical advancement and functionality in the Sonos speaker system. Hence the title Sonos own gaol. Perhaps it should have been Sonos fail to provide functionality again!

 

 

I’m not convinced, you know the functionality of Sonos surrounds, or I don’t understand what your issue is at all.

 

Let me add yours was a unhelpful, very condescending & patronising reply. 

 

Maybe it might help me better understand the issue your complaining about by explaining why ‘Full’ doesn’t resolve the issue?

Danny
K
Badge +1

Actually that is exactly what I did, and it actually did it no problem! That process may well have removed the stereo paring as it created the surrounds but that is immaterial. You missed that.

They were silent because it created the surrounds. And that worked well.

Both stereo function and surround function work fine, and as I said no problems with quality.

The main issue remains, that is the lack of ability to easily switch between stereo and surround function. Or for the Sonos speaker system to be smart enough to detect the source and chose automatically.

Both disappointing. I’m glad I didn't spend more on the pair of speakers. Especially as my HomePod Mini’s cost the same, and can perform the switch automatically.

 

melvimbe

The main issue remains, that is the lack of ability to easily switch between stereo and surround function. Or for the Sonos speaker system to be smart enough to detect the source and chose automatically.

 

Below is from the support article.  This isn’t the feature you’re looking for?

Select the type of audio you want to hear from the surround speakers when listening to music. This setting does not apply to TV audio or Dolby Atmos music.
 
  • Ambient: Subtle, low volume audio with a limited frequency range. This is the default setting for surround speakers during music playback.
  • Full: Full range audio at the same volume as the home theater speaker.
Danny
K
Badge +1

The sound dominance isn’t an issue. And I know how to sound balance the speakers, that’s also not the issue. I also know how to use the group function as well.

 

 

Your first post made it sound as if you didn’t know there was a setting to switch from ambient to full when playing music for your surround speakers.  That’s not exactly the same thing as balance, and not at all related to grouping two rooms together.

 

What I’m saying is not possible to toggle easily on Sonos between the two modes (surround or stereo) neither is the Sonos system or speakers intelligent enough to do it automatically.

 

 

If you have the room set to Full, then the rear surrounds will play stereo when sourced for music.  ‘Music’ being anything not coming from the TV.  When it is a TV source, the surrounds will play surround channels if any are present.

 

Thus comparison to Apple which is intelligent… Home pod Minis automatically join Apple TV AND will operate as a stereo sound bar picking out voice in theatre mode or in music mode playing stereo. No adjusting or switching necessary. 

 

 

 Your homepods aren’t playing surround sound, and are playing stereo regardless.  Perhaps your Apple TV is sending different audio via airplay, depending on the content playing, don’t.  Sonos gets the audio from the TV and plays what it’s given.  Perhaps you want stereo sources from TV to play stereo on the rear surrounds as well?  Ok, but I haven’t seen that as a big problem since me, and most other people, streaming music directly to the speakers, not through the TV. 

Again, if you have setting to Full, streaming sources and TV sources will automatically switch between surround duty and playing stereo, depending on source.

 

I’d say I over estimated the technical advancement and functionality in the Sonos speaker system. Hence the title Sonos own gaol. Perhaps it should have been Sonos fail to provide functionality again!

 

 

I’m not convinced, you know the functionality of Sonos surrounds, or I don’t understand what your issue is at all.

 

Let me add yours was a unhelpful, very condescending & patronising reply. 

 

Maybe it might help me better understand the issue your complaining about by explaining why ‘Full’ doesn’t resolve the issue?

OK, I used the start a discussion option. Which I hoped to have about the clunky way Sonos operates.

You did and are making a whole load of assumptions.

When room is set to full in surround it plays as expected from the TV, nice split. But in surround mode when streaming from IOS or Sonos Radio the SYMFONISK are silent even if the Beam volume is full or whatever. In IOS I can select a Roam as well but the SYMFONISK do not show. They do if I unbound/group and treat them as stereo pair, add the Beam & Roam. 

Therefore perhaps you explain why ‘Full’ doesn’t work in surround to give stereo?

BTW there are other people on other threads and web sites saying the same thing about having to come out of one mode and into the other to get either stereo & surround. 

Take it from me I DO understand how the surround sound works.

I was clearly using HomePod Minis to demonstrate how an intelligent switching system can work seamlessly.

 

jgatie

Full doesn't work in surround mode because in surround mode the speakers are in surround mode.  If the content has no surround info, naturally the surrounds will be silent in surround mode.  

Comparing Sonos to home pods is useless, they are completely different hardware, with different configuration requirements.

K
Badge +1

Full doesn't work in surround mode because in surround mode the speakers are in surround mode.  If the content has no surround info, naturally the surrounds will be silent in surround mode.  

That’s not what the other guy said, 

If you have the room set to Full, then the rear surrounds will play stereo when sourced for music.  ‘Music’ being anything not coming from the TV.  When it is a TV source, the surrounds will play surround channels if any are present.

I actually can adjust the sound on the Beam in surround, in fact it works OK. It was set to Full by default. And I have tried it with Dolby enabled films and the surround works well. 

 

melvimbe

 

 

When room is set to full in surround it plays as expected from the TV, nice split.

 

 

So you have they symfonisk speakers bonded as surround speakers with your Beam to form a single Sonos room.  They play surround audio channels as expected.  I assume that’s what you’re expecting and what you call a ‘nice split’.

 

But in surround mode when streaming from IOS or Sonos Radio the SYMFONISK are silent even if the Beam volume is full or whatever.

 

Streaming from iOS = Airplay?

Sonos Radio would be the Sonos speakers directly streaming. So if your room containing the Symfonisk and Beam is set to full, then you should hear stereo coming from the Beam and stereo coming from your Symfonisk.

 

In IOS I can select a Roam as well but the SYMFONISK do not show. They do if I unbound/group and treat them as stereo pair, add the Beam & Roam. 

 

 

by iOS, I’m not sure if you’re talking about selecting speakers for airplay, or through the Sonos app...but what you’re saying is expected.  The ‘speakers’ you see are actually the Sonos rooms you have setup.  So your Roam is one room and your Beam+2 Symfonisk is another room.

 

Therefore perhaps you explain why ‘Full’ doesn’t work in surround to give stereo?

 

 

Whether using airplay or the Sonos app, if you select to play a non-TV source to your Sonos room (Beam + Symfonisk), your rear surround speakers should be playing stereo when in Full.  If that’s not happen, then either your setting isn’t right or you have faulty speakers.

Are you expecting the Symfonisk to automatically break it’s bond to the Beam and act as separate Sonos room for music sources?  Then automatically bond back to the Beam when the Beam starts playing TV?

 

BTW there are other people on other threads and web sites saying the same thing about having to come out of one mode and into the other to get either stereo & surround. 

 

 

The complaints are usually that they don’t want the Beam playing at all when they play a music source.  That doesn’t seem to be your complaint here, but I wouldn’t mind being mistaken..  Others always want to use Roam or Move for surrounds.  Still others want to have the rears play stereo when the TV source is stereo...like with music played through TV as example.  Then there are those who want to use the same sub in multiple rooms.

 

Take it from me I DO understand how the surround sound works.

I was clearly using HomePod Minis to demonstrate how an intelligent switching system can work seamlessly.

 

 

You can setup your homepod minis as surround channel speakers? From your description, it sounds like you were using them as front left and right speakers, that have enhanced voice/dialog with TV sources from your Apple TV.   I get that that isn’t really the point of your comparison, but I think it’s a vital difference.  Your homepod minis sound more like the Beam, which will play stereo for music sources, and front left/right/center for TV.  Or more accurately like the amp, that plays stereo for music, and then left/right and simulated center for TV.

Danny
melvimbe

Full doesn't work in surround mode because in surround mode the speakers are in surround mode.  If the content has no surround info, naturally the surrounds will be silent in surround mode.  

That’s not what the other guy said, 

If you have the room set to Full, then the rear surrounds will play stereo when sourced for music.  ‘Music’ being anything not coming from the TV.  When it is a TV source, the surrounds will play surround channels if any are present.

 

 

No, we are saying the same thing actually.  By ‘surround mode’, @jgatie means the Symfonisk speakers are bonded as surround speakers AND the source is TV.  When those surround speakers are set to full, the surround speakers will play stereo for music/not-TV sources along with the Beam/Arc/Amp they are connected to.  Besides the Sonos documentation, other users with this setup, I have a couple rooms setup this way and use it all the time.

 

I actually can adjust the sound on the Beam in surround, in fact it works OK. It was set to Full by default. And I have tried it with Dolby enabled films and the surround works well. 

 

Don’t think you meant to imply this, but ‘Full’ setting has no impact for TV sources, so would not matter for dolby enabled films.

Danny
jgatie

Full doesn't work in surround mode because in surround mode the speakers are in surround mode.  If the content has no surround info, naturally the surrounds will be silent in surround mode.  

That’s not what the other guy said, 

If you have the room set to Full, then the rear surrounds will play stereo when sourced for music.  ‘Music’ being anything not coming from the TV.  When it is a TV source, the surrounds will play surround channels if any are present.

I actually can adjust the sound on the Beam in surround, in fact it works OK. It was set to Full by default. And I have tried it with Dolby enabled films and the surround works well. 

 

 

It’s very similar to what he said (see bolded)..  The Beam/surrounds have two sources or modes  - TV (coming in via HDMI) and Music (coming from anywhere else, Airplay being the exception - I don’t know what Airplay does).  In ‘TV’ aka ‘surround’ mode, the surrounds act as surrounds.  In Music’ mode, the surrounds act according to the ‘Ambient’ or ‘Full’ setting in the Surround Audio settings menu for the room. 

K
Badge +1

 

 

When room is set to full in surround it plays as expected from the TV, nice split.

 

 

So you have they symfonisk speakers bonded as surround speakers with your Beam to form a single Sonos room.  They play surround audio channels as expected.  I assume that’s what you’re expecting and what you call a ‘nice split’.

 

But in surround mode when streaming from IOS or Sonos Radio the SYMFONISK are silent even if the Beam volume is full or whatever.

 

Streaming from iOS = Airplay?

Sonos Radio would be the Sonos speakers directly streaming. So if your room containing the Symfonisk and Beam is set to full, then you should hear stereo coming from the Beam and stereo coming from your Symfonisk.

 

In IOS I can select a Roam as well but the SYMFONISK do not show. They do if I unbound/group and treat them as stereo pair, add the Beam & Roam. 

 

 

by iOS, I’m not sure if you’re talking about selecting speakers for airplay, or through the Sonos app...but what you’re saying is expected.  The ‘speakers’ you see are actually the Sonos rooms you have setup.  So your Roam is one room and your Beam+2 Symfonisk is another room.

 

Therefore perhaps you explain why ‘Full’ doesn’t work in surround to give stereo?

 

 

Whether using airplay or the Sonos app, if you select to play a non-TV source to your Sonos room (Beam + Symfonisk), your rear surround speakers should be playing stereo when in Full.  If that’s not happen, then either your setting isn’t right or you have faulty speakers.

Are you expecting the Symfonisk to automatically break it’s bond to the Beam and act as separate Sonos room for music sources?  Then automatically bond back to the Beam when the Beam starts playing TV?

 

BTW there are other people on other threads and web sites saying the same thing about having to come out of one mode and into the other to get either stereo & surround. 

 

 

The complaints are usually that they don’t want the Beam playing at all when they play a music source.  That doesn’t seem to be your complaint here, but I wouldn’t mind being mistaken..  Others always want to use Roam or Move for surrounds.  Still others want to have the rears play stereo when the TV source is stereo...like with music played through TV as example.  Then there are those who want to use the same sub in multiple rooms.

 

Take it from me I DO understand how the surround sound works.

I was clearly using HomePod Minis to demonstrate how an intelligent switching system can work seamlessly.

 

 

You can setup your homepod minis as surround channel speakers? From your description, it sounds like you were using them as front left and right speakers, that have enhanced voice/dialog with TV sources from your Apple TV.   I get that that isn’t really the point of your comparison, but I think it’s a vital difference.  Your homepod minis sound more like the Beam, which will play stereo for music sources, and front left/right/center for TV.  Or more accurately like the amp, that plays stereo for music, and then left/right and simulated center for TV.

Separately in either surround mode & stereo mode the system works very well. The Beam volume has always been set to Full in either mode. In surround mode when streaming music from any source the no sound is coming out of the symfonisk. As they work in either independent mode, there clearly doesn’t appear any problem with the speakers.

I’m just expecting it to work. 

The complaints/moans I’m referring to are about exactly the issues I’m having.

Apple doesn’t make a sound bar but the Home Pod Minis create a simulation plus a wider sound in front. And you can add two others for surround. 

 

jgatie

The ‘Full’ setting has nothing to do with the Beam volume.  It is a setting in the surround audio menu, see this link: https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4804?language=en_US

 

Look under “Music Playback”.

K
Badge +1

The ‘Full’ setting has nothing to do with the Beam volume.  It is a setting in the surround audio menu, see this link: https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4804?language=en_US

 

Look under “Music Playback”.

Yep that’s the one.It’s accessed under Lounge/Beam-Products when my app is set to Surround.

jgatie

Yep that’s the one

 

Well, it works great for me (and millions of others), I get full volume sound out of my surrounds with music sources.  I suggest you contact Sonos. 

K
Badge +1

Yep that’s the one

 

Well, it works great for me (and millions of others), I get full volume sound out of my surrounds with music sources.  I suggest you contact Sonos. 

I’ve actually found another thread with others who are having/had similar problems. 

Ken_Griffiths

@KeithFM,
I’m not too sure what the issues are being reported here, but I can add that two of the most common issues for no sound from HT ‘bonded’ surrounds are:

  1. Check that the surrounds are switched on in the App (see screenshot)… perhaps try toggling the surrounds off/on again.
  2. Also, check that the wireless adapter is enabled on the Beam. This only applies if the Beam is wired to the LAN. Anyhow see this support page link: https://support.sonos.com/s/article/3684
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melvimbe

Separately in either surround mode & stereo mode the system works very well. The Beam volume has always been set to Full in either mode.

 

 

So to make sure I’m on the same page with your definitions..

surround mode = your symfonisk speakers are bonded with your Beam as surround speakers.

stereo mode = your symfonisk speakers are a separate stereo pair, a different Sonos room than your Beam.

Assuming I got that right (those aren’t standard terms Sonos uses normally), the second sentence doesn’t make sense.  Beam volume is not tied to the Full setting at all, as already mentioned.  And in ‘stereo mode’ there would be no Full setting for your Symfonisk speaker pair.

 

In surround mode when streaming music from any source the no sound is coming out of the symfonisk.

 

 

You should talk to Sonos support if you have the speakers setup as surrounds, full mode, and a non-TV source.

 

 

 

As they work in either independent mode, there clearly doesn’t appear any problem with the speakers.

I’m just expecting it to work. 

The complaints/moans I’m referring to are about exactly the issues I’m having.

 

 

It would be helpful if you could provide links to the other complaints your referring to.  Right now, it seems like you ‘re saying a feature doesn’t exist, when a lot of us are actually using the feature on a regular basis.

 

 

Apple doesn’t make a sound bar but the Home Pod Minis create a simulation plus a wider sound in front. And you can add two others for surround. 

 

Didn’t know those speakers could be used as surrounds.  Good info.

Danny
J

@KeithFM . I am afraid all the evidence suggests that you don't fully understand this product. Perhaps you could prove me wrong by confirming that you understand the following:

1. Sonos HT systems are created by bonding 'surround ' speakers to a Sonos sound bar.

2. This set up is designed to play multichannel sound for TV and movies and also to play stereo music.

3. The system plays stereo music sources as stereo from the soundbar and stereo from the 'surrounds'.  It is not intended that the surrounds function as a stereo pair in isolation. 

4. Whether the system is playing in surround or stereo mode is NOT a user choice. If the sound source is audio cable to the soundbar, the system will operate in surround mode. If the source is streamed over the local network the system will play in (dual) stereo.

5. You can choose to have stereo from the soundbar only, by switching off the surrounds. There are various settings that enable you to alter the relative levels of the front and rear stereo when dual stereo is playing.

If you accept all that, can you try again to explain what exactly your problem with it is?

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