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SUB benefits


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Hi forum members,

I've been using the playbar for a while now. I love the sound quality but want to add the SUB to "beef" it up. I know that SUB transforms the playbar but my concern will I notice the difference in all cases?Let me clarify. I am watching mostly IPTV with stereo sound. If playbar tries to create fake surround sound from every type of audio you throw at it (i think this is the case) how will the added SUB recognize what frequencies to "take" from playbar?

Thank you

Neven
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Best answer by ratty 15 July 2019, 13:03

For stereo PCM, "surround" (fake or otherwise) has no meaning. Playbar simply applies a low-pass filter and redirects the lowest frequencies out to the Sub.

Even with DD5.1 content, I believe Sub may supplement the LFE/.1 channel content with bass content derived from the front channels.
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For stereo PCM, "surround" (fake or otherwise) has no meaning. Playbar simply applies a low-pass filter and redirects the lowest frequencies out to the Sub.

Even with DD5.1 content, I believe Sub may supplement the LFE/.1 channel content with bass content derived from the front channels.
Near the bottom of this post is a discussion of "Intermodulation". Basically, all of the many frequencies simultaneously pushing their way through PLAYBAR jumbles things a bit. If the low frequencies are stripped out of PLAYBAR and sent to SUB, all of the remaining music handled by PLAYBAR is clearer because PLAYBAR has a simpler job.

To me "beefing up the bass" is a pleasant side effect. The major benefit is clarity of sound. In terms of "beef" you'll find that SUB is one of the best. While there are not quite as many speakers swimming around in your livingroom, in an average livingroom one can match the levels of an IMAX theater using PLAYBAR, SUB, and surrounds.
Userlevel 3
Badge +7
For stereo PCM, "surround" (fake or otherwise) has no meaning. Playbar simply applies a low-pass filter and redirects the lowest frequencies out to the Sub.

Even with DD5.1 content, I believe Sub may supplement the LFE/.1 channel content with bass content derived from the front channels.


Thank you for the reply.
Neven
Userlevel 3
Badge +7
Near the bottom of this post is a discussion of "Intermodulation". Basically, all of the many frequencies simultaneously pushing their way through PLAYBAR jumbles things a bit. If the low frequencies are stripped out of PLAYBAR and sent to SUB, all of the remaining music handled by PLAYBAR is clearer because PLAYBAR has a simpler job.

To me "beefing up the bass" is a pleasant side effect. The major benefit is clarity of sound. In terms of "beef" you'll find that SUB is one of the best. While there are not quite as many speakers swimming around in your livingroom, in an average livingroom one can match the levels of an IMAX theater using PLAYBAR, SUB, and surrounds.


Many thanks! One thing I have from day one is speech enhancement ON, because things are not clear enough. If adding the SUB this will improve, I couldn't be more happier. If we are talking of low frequencies, these are not only explosions and such, but also, very deep human voices?

Yesterday I watched some concerts and the Playbar can go really low! Can the SUB go much deeper? Or will it simply provide the "gut" feeling?

Neven
Although Darth Vader's voice might have more "growl", I would hate to promise that SUB will solve your speech intelligibility issues.

Don't push this analogy too far, but when there is very busy content that includes a lot of bass, the presentation will seem "larger" and it will seem as if someone washed a window suspended between you and the music. Along with poor production of the movie, unfortunate aspects of your room could be jumbling things.

Yes, compared to the TV's own speakers, PLAYBAR can go "low", but with SUB on the scene, you'll finally come to understand what "low" means. Actually, adding a significant amount of low frequency energy into the room can cause some surprising issues. During a major "thump" you may discover loose items inside your walls that you were not aware of. In my case I had to subdue some rattles in the windows. Your mileage will vary of course and I tend to be hyper sensitive to this sort of issue ('Buzz', get it?).
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Although Darth Vader's voice might have more "growl", I would hate to promise that SUB will solve your speech intelligibility issues.

Don't push this analogy too far, but when there is very busy content that includes a lot of bass, the presentation will seem "larger" and it will seem as if someone washed a window suspended between you and the music.

Sorry, but I don't quite get this "washed a window". Is this a good thing?

Along with poor production of the movie, unfortunate aspects of your room could be jumbling things.


The room is not ideal (open space, high vaulted ceilings) and playbar is laid flat on a shelf above the tv.
Also, I allways have loudness ON.

Yes, compared to the TV's own speakers, PLAYBAR can go "low", but with SUB on the scene, you'll finally come to understand what "low" means. Actually, adding a significant amount of low frequency energy into the room can cause some surprising issues. During a major "thump" you may discover loose items inside your walls that you were not aware of. In my case I had to subdue some rattles in the windows. Your mileage will vary of course and I tend to be hyper sensitive to this sort of issue ('Buzz', get it?).

I hope that adding SUB will make the Playbar a bit louder. I have found reviews and here on this forum that it does that.
I am rethinking buying the sub all the time, it is a lot of money.
Ok Buzz 🙂., thanks again.
Neven
The room is not ideal (open space, high vaulted ceilings) and playbar is laid flat on a shelf above the tv.
Ah. If Playbar is flat on its back the drive units are angled upwards at 45 degrees. Higher frequencies could be getting a bit lost in the void, comprising speech intelligibility.

For mounting above a TV, Sonos recommend using the wall-mount bracket with Playbar flat against the wall and its cable entries upwards. This angles Playbar's drive units downwards at 45 degrees, directly towards the listener.

If the shelf is immovable you could try tipping the Playbar up on its front face at the lip of the shelf. Exercise care obviously, and it would help to secure the Playbar somehow. This won't be perfect, as the drive units will now be firing somewhat into the shelf itself, but it may inspire you to consider a different arrangement.
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The room is not ideal (open space, high vaulted ceilings) and playbar is laid flat on a shelf above the tv.Ah. If Playbar is flat on its back the drive units are angled upwards at 45 degrees. Higher frequencies could be getting a bit lost in the void, comprising speech intelligibility.


For now, it is the only way it could be placed. There is a nice shelf below the TV, but my 2-year old son loves to grab stuff from there. :-)

For mounting above a TV, Sonos recommend using the wall-mount bracket with Playbar flat against the wall and its cable entries upwards. This angles Playbar's drive units downwards at 45 degrees, directly towards the listener.

I could consider mounting it on a wall some 2 metres above the shelf (so, nearly 3 metres above the TV) but I think it will be too high, and I will not be able to hide the wires.

If the shelf is immovable you could try tipping the Playbar up on its front face at the lip of the shelf. Exercise care obviously, and it would help to secure the Playbar somehow.
I have thought of that, Maybe I will try to pull something off.
This won't be perfect, as the drive units will now be firing somewhat into the shelf itself, but it may inspire you to consider a different arrangement.


Maybe I should sell the Playbar, and get the Playbase 🙂 But the shelf is not deep enough, so that's out of the question also. Jeeez, what to do...

Neven
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You don’t say where you’re based, but Sonos do a trial period on speakers. Buy it and try it. Send it back if no good. (I anticipate it staying.)
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You don’t say where you’re based, but Sonos do a trial period on speakers. Buy it and try it. Send it back if no good. (I anticipate it staying.)
Croatia. I fear the SUB might stay :-)

Neven

Sorry, but I don't quite get this "washed a window". Is this a good thing?


OK, maybe that part of the analogy didn't work.

I was trying to imply that looking through a window will not ever duplicate the experience of being outside, but if the inside of the window is dirty, removing the dirt will improve the experience. Simplifying PLAYBAR's task by stripping out the bass will improve the overall clarity.

Goodness of sound is always in the ear of the listener. For some listeners adding SUB will be a dramatic improvement, for other listeners, not so much.

ratty's comment about placement is spot on.

Best placement would be hanging on the wall under the TV. Also, avoid shelving or walls too close to the ends of PLAYBAR because some sound is projected out the ends. Surfaces too close to the ends will cause reflections that damage the overall impression.

You should experiment with adjusting the highs a bit. Boosting the highs (slightly) would normally improve voice intelligibility, however, in your room a (slight) reduction in highs might be better. There will be a difference between drapes open and drapes closed.
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Sorry, but I don't quite get this "washed a window". Is this a good thing?
OK, maybe that part of the analogy didn't work.

I was trying to imply that looking through a window will not ever duplicate the experience of being outside, but if the inside of the window is dirty, removing the dirt will improve the experience. Simplifying PLAYBAR's task by stripping out the bass will improve the overall clarity.

Yes, i got it on second reading.
Goodness of sound is always in the ear of the listener. For some listeners adding SUB will be a dramatic improvement, for other listeners, not so much.

I hope my experience will be later.
ratty's comment about placement is spot on.

Best placement would be hanging on the wall under the TV. Also, avoid shelving or walls too close to the ends of PLAYBAR because some sound is projected out the ends. Surfaces too close to the ends will cause reflections that damage the overall impression.
I will try to rethink playbar position, but i do admire it sounds so good being in the worst place imaginable. The playbar is 20 cm above the TV.The sound travels first toward the high vaulted ceilng and then bounces to my listening position 5,5 metres away. I am considering wall monting it to a beam (no pun intended) and then the Playbar wold be more than 1 m higher then it is now. But the vertical orientation would shoot the sound 45 degrees downward, which could improve the sound.

You should experiment with adjusting the highs a bit. Boosting the highs (slightly) would normally improve voice intelligibility, however, in your room a (slight) reduction in highs might be better. There will be a difference between drapes open and drapes closed.
I did perform trueplay but i will play wit the EQ a bit too find the correct setting. After I get the SUB, offcourse 😀
Neven
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Make sure to run Trueplay again after you install the sub.

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