Sonos Arc designed backwards? Several feature requests/design questions.

C

I have been trying to set up my Sonos Arc with my TV which does not have an ARC port.  This has proved to be exceptionally frustrating, and pretty much every part of the system owns a piece of the blame.  The TV, as I said, does not have ARC.  Streaming services only seem to offer Dolby Digital Plus, which doesn’t work over optical audio, and cannot down-convert to Dolby Digital (not plus).  It seems there is only one (the HDFury Arcana) box that can split an ARC signal off of a normal HDMI.

 

Although this all comes together to create a perfect storm of incompatibility, I wan’t to ask here about the design of the Sonos Arc.  From what I can tell, most home theater setups have an HDMI input coming into a receiver, which passes sound to all the speakers, and video on to the TV through an HDMI.  It seems like the Arc reverses this setup, going backwards from the TV into the Arc, which is effectively acting as the receiver.  Why was this design choice made, and why is there no HDMI pass through.  Or alternatively, why not be able to accept a normal (non-ARC) HDMI signal?  The audio is clearly encoded in it.  Could this be done in a future update?  Sonos seems like a great company, but it seems there is no route to surround sound, especially Atmos, without a specific TV with an ARC port.

 

So, my questions:

  • Is any of this information wrong?  I may be totally misunderstanding something that would make surround sound from a streaming service possible, but I haven’t figured it out!
  • I’m very curious as to the design decisions made in the paragraph above.
  • Are there other (more affordable?) ARC extractor boxes besides the HDFury Arcana?
  • Does Sonos have any products that work as an AV receiver to extract audio to their wireless speakers and pass on video?  I was having trouble figuring out how Sonos fits into a home-theater setup these days.
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6 replies

106rallye
Userlevel 7
Badge +17

Most TV’s made from ca 2010, especially the more expensive ones that would be present in the homes of people looking for the more expensive soundbars Sonos makes, have an ARC connection. The ARC connection will also work with HDMI-CEC commands, so the TV will, without much ado, command the soundbar. I can see why Sonos has made this choice: for most of their clientele (“has money, but not much technical insight”) a Sonos soundbar does what is is supposed to do.

I do question you statement the TV will mot mix down DD+ to DD when an optical cable is connected. What make and model is your TV?

J

The product is called the Arc. The clue is in the name.  If you buy the latest tech I don’t think you should be surprised if some fairly old tech has some compatibility issues.  (As @106rallye  has said, HDMI-ARC has been around and mainstream for a long time.)

I would also expect most TVs to be able to output DD5.1 when playing a DD+ stream like Netflix.   Is there nothing in the TV’s audio settings for selecting the default output over optical?

The Arc isn’t an AV receiver, it is a soundbar.  It would need multiple HDMI inputs to work like some receivers do.  Most TVs are designed to send audio to an external sound system (soundbar or AV system) as an alternative to using the TV’s own internal speakers.  This is not an unusual design.

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

If the TV is old enough to not support HDMI-ARC then chances are reasonable that it will block DD 5.1 over optical. A model # would make this clear, as would a description of the device running the streaming services (which is unlikelyto be the TV given its age).

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
melvimbe

Although this all comes together to create a perfect storm of incompatibility, I wan’t to ask here about the design of the Sonos Arc.  From what I can tell, most home theater setups have an HDMI input coming into a receiver, which passes sound to all the speakers, and video on to the TV through an HDMI.  It seems like the Arc reverses this setup, going backwards from the TV into the Arc, which is effectively acting as the receiver.  Why was this design choice made, and why is there no HDMI pass through.  Or alternatively, why not be able to accept a normal (non-ARC) HDMI signal?  The audio is clearly encoded in it.  Could this be done in a future update?  Sonos seems like a great company, but it seems there is no route to surround sound, especially Atmos, without a specific TV with an ARC port.

 

It’s been discussed at length many times before, but there are several logical reasons why Sonos uitllted the ARC/eARC standard rather than doing what receivers have been doing for decades.  One is simplicity, of just having one HDMI port rather than 4 HDMI outputs.  That not only reduces costs, but should be easier for most customers who just want something easy. The other is that the Arc will never be a bottleneck to video quality.  You won’t ever have to upgrade the Arc because you want to improve to a new video technology that the Arc doesn’t support...since video doesn’t pass through the Arc.  This is an issue with receivers, as many people had to upgrade their receiver to be 4k compatible when 4k became the latest video standard.

Understood though that some will have the reverse problem...having to possibly upgrade your TV (video) in order to improve your audio. That’s why Arcana is a great product since it does a good job of separating audio and video, so you don’t have to worry about your soundbar’s video processing capabilities, or your TV’s audio processing capabilities. 

Danny
C

I have a projector with no audio capability.  I know these are not designed for use with projectors, but it seems like it would be an easy (I am not an HDMI chip designer, so I don’t really know this, but I am guessing) expansion to make, and would, judging from these forums, bring in more clientele.

 

I am using an external box to split optical audio off of HDMI, so maybe the DD+ problem is with that.  I thought I read somewhere that they were not compatible, but now I am reading the opposite.  I probably just need a new box.

 

I realize the Arc is not a receiver, but in some ways it seems to act as one, in that it takes in an audio signal and distributes it to all the speakers.

 

@melvimbe , that’s an interesting point about not needing to upgrade video over time.  It seems like accepting a normal non-ARC HDMI signal and extracting the audio might help for at least a time.  Is this technically hard to do?

melvimbe

I have a projector with no audio capability.  I know these are not designed for use with projectors, but it seems like it would be an easy (I am not an HDMI chip designer, so I don’t really know this, but I am guessing) expansion to make, and would, judging from these forums, bring in more clientele.

 

I am using an external box to split optical audio off of HDMI, so maybe the DD+ problem is with that.  I thought I read somewhere that they were not compatible, but now I am reading the opposite.  I probably just need a new box.

 

 

Optical cables cannot carry a DD+ signal, only DD.

 

 

I realize the Arc is not a receiver, but in some ways it seems to act as one, in that it takes in an audio signal and distributes it to all the speakers.

 

@melvimbe , that’s an interesting point about not needing to upgrade video over time.  It seems like accepting a normal non-ARC HDMI signal and extracting the audio might help for at least a time.  Is this technically hard to do?

 

As you know already converting audio from HDMI to optical is not hard to do and there are plenty of devices that do that, but you are limited in sound quality over optical.  If you want DD+ ( with Atmos) then you need something that converts HDMI to HDMI-ARC, and only TVs do that.  If you want DD+ and TrueHD, both with atmos capabilities, then you need eARC...either an eARC capable TV or an HD Fury Arcana.  No one else makes a device that does that conversion that I’ve heard of.

Even people that do have ARC or eARC capable TVs are opting to get an Arcana so they aren’t relying on their TV to process audio.  Each TV brand is different, with some introducing unwanted delays, not passing through certain audio formats, etc.   TV makers know you buy them  for their video quality, not audio processing.

Danny
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