Solving the 5.1, DTS issues with the Playbar



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It was probably in response to incessant nagging about the lack of a more recent communication.

:rolleyes:

Keith


Of course. When you can simultaneously complain about the lack of a timely response and the lack of any new information in the responses you do get, your disappointment is pretty much guaranteed.

Entitlement Nation at its finest!
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Good to see the usual comments dismissing any attempts by prospective Playbar owners to gain a definitive answer on DTS. Probably by peoplle who are not wanting or waiting for the feature.

I dismissed this product for consideration due to the lack of DTS but support all those hoping for the feature and persuing Sonos for an answer.
Sonos,

Take yourself and your customers seriously and update the playbar with DTS support or announce that you will release playbar 2 that supports DTS. Keeping your customers in the dark is not good and will undoubtedly damage you. Please stop being arrogant, thinking you are the market leader in your field. This is how companies, e.g. blackberry RIM, will be overtaken by others. Thank you again for your consideration.

PS. please also consider lowering price on playbar and subwoofer. Harman Kardon is cheaper and better quality. Offer more competitive price for those that are interested in both playbar and sub.

Best regards,
Why_no_DTS?
Good to see the usual comments dismissing any attempts

There's no dismissal. The comments are pointing out the lack of recognition of the futility of the attempts -- the comment between ours here being a perfect example.
Sonos,

Take yourself and your customers seriously and update the playbar with DTS support or announce that you will release playbar 2 that supports DTS. Keeping your customers in the dark is not good and will undoubtedly damage you. Please stop being arrogant, thinking you are the market leader in your field. This is how companies, e.g. blackberry RIM, will be overtaken by others. Thank you again for your consideration.

PS. please also consider lowering price on playbar and subwoofer. Harman Kardon is cheaper and better quality. Offer more competitive price for those that are interested in both playbar and sub.

Best regards,
Why_no_DTS?


I don't think posting the same thing in multiple threads is a good idea. You are just going to irritate people, and you will achieve nothing as these forums are user run and are not (officially) read by Sonos themselves.
There's no dismissal. The comments are pointing out the lack of recognition of the futility of the attempts

I would go further... there seems to be a lack of ability to understand the answer that Sonos gave, and the continued nagging for an update by a handful of people.

And then they are surprised when an update is given, and the status hasn't changed.

http://mangaeanimeita.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/picard-facepalm.jpg

It reminds me a of small, badly-parented children on a long car journey saying "Are we there yet?" every few minutes.

Cheers,

Keith

P.S. I have moderated the repeated and I would recommend that particular poster isn't so arrogant and selfish towards other forums users in the future. If a similar "spamming" occurs again, I will take it as a sign that these threads need to be merged into a single thread.
I think it is important indeed to remind forum users that this forum is user driven. It is probably read by Sonos, but not the official communication channel.
In that regard, I agree with Majik that continually nagging in here (and in different threads) probably isn't producing the effect those people expect.

Nevertheless, everyone is entitled to their opinion and these forums are a good place to express them. But again, the opinions expressed here are expressed towards other Sonos users, not towards Sonos staff!!

For the rest, I have expressed my opinion on this topic before and I stand by it, which that the "under consideration" status on the DTS issue generates the one and only negative feeling I have with Sonos. "Not planned" would be more acceptable to me. And again, that's food for thought, not militantism to get Sonos to do something about it.
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It reminds me a of small, badly-parented children on a long car journey saying "Are we there yet?" every few minutes.


The DTS discussions always seem to include weird analogies that argue for and against the current status of DTS in the Playbar development process or not as the case may be.

It is obviously an emotive subject with something even requiring moderation in the latest bout of discussion.

However the 'badly-parented children' thing is so out there it obviously needs a response and I am more than happy to respond.

My view (which means my personal view not a view I am trying to impose on others) is that the analogy is for the want of a better word offensive, possibly more so than whatever was moderated.

Does this forum really want to brand people who have spent their hard earned cash as badly parented children ?

Well sadly it looks like the answer may be yes but certainly not by me and I hope many others.

This forum is a great place and passionate discussion is one part of what makes it great but dismissing people as naggers or children is something that makes it less great.

For what it's worth in my view DTS will come in due course I just hope that it does not require a new hardware purchase for those with the current unit.

I would like to see ALL Sonos customers happy.....of course that will be never but DTS should at least get us closer.
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Good post Skyex.

In my view some of the mods and regulars have behaved as poorly in these DTS discussions as anyone else.

The fact is, when people confront situations that are not aligned with their expectations regarding Sonos, this is likely the first place they will come and we should expect that they will want to post, if for no other reason than therapy.

I have no problem with responding to these posts by combining them if they are redundant, calling out inappropriate language or behavior or providing facts that help a poster understand something. However, arguing for pages about the effectiveness of asking the same question multiple times or whether a person's expectation for DTS support is reasonable, is, well, futile. Mods should simply not be adding fuel to these fires - they will burn out on their own. The role of a moderator, like a meeting chair is to organize and regulate the flow of discussion, not to jump in and out of the debate. Worse, by getting in and arguing, mods are compromising the essential point of forums, which is to have a place for civil discussion of diverse opinions.

The best way we can serve Sonos as outsiders is to create a positive and supportive community where divergent opinions are welcomed, not nuked.

I'm sure we'll be arguing about my comments now, so go ahead. I won't be participating but I hope for better.
Personally, I think the analogy of children nagging "Are we there yet!?" is spot on. A child in the backseat is not knowledgable of the length of the trip, the current mile marker, or the rate of speed. They only know they want to get to the destination as soon as possible.

And like a parent answering the "Are we there yet!?" question, Sonos knows that if they say "Well, we have travelled 26 miles, we have 312 miles to go, at the current rate of speed with 2 pit stops, we should be there by 7:00 PM; that is if we don't hit any traffic or get a flat tire.", the only response that explanation will get from children who have no sense of distance/time is "But why so long!??"

Admit it, the only answer that will satisfy anyone who wishes this feature is "It will be here next week!!", and even that answer will give rise to a few "Why so long to wait!?" and "Too little too late!" responses.
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Personally, I think the analogy of children nagging "Are we there yet!?" is spot on. A child in the backseat is not knowledgable of the length of the trip, the current mile marker, or the rate of speed. They only know they want to get to the destination as soon as possible.

And like a parent answering the "Are we there yet!?" question, Sonos knows that if they say "Well, we have travelled 26 miles, we have 312 miles to go, at the current rate of speed with 2 pit stops, we should be there by 7:00 PM; that is if we don't hit any traffic or get a flat tire.", the only response that explanation will get from children who have no sense of distance/time is "But why so long!??"

Admit it, the only answer that will satisfy anyone who wishes this feature is "It will be here next week!!", and even that answer will give rise to a few "Why so long to wait!?" and "Too little too late!" responses.


Well no surprises there then !
Well no surprises there then !

Give me an honest answer . . . Do you think that anybody who is dissatisified with the current DTS situation is going to be satisfied by any response except a confirmation that it is coming very soon?**

** (actually, history indicates that any "Coming very soon!" announcements are very shortly followed by "What!?? Why can't we get a firm release date!!?? Sonos doesn't like its customers!! ZOMG!!") 😉
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Give me an honest answer . . . Do you think that anybody who is dissatisified with the current DTS situation is going to be satisfied by any response except a confirmation that it is coming very soon?**

** (actually, history indicates that any "Coming very soon!" announcements are very shortly followed by "What!?? Why can't we get a firm release date!!?? Sonos doesn't like its customers!! ZOMG!!") ;)


I think you have missed the point of my post so an answer is not required.
I think you have missed the point of my post so an answer is not required.

Obviously I have.
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Personally it is Sonos' lack of any meaningful reply that I find most frustrating.

How can something be 'Under Consideration' for almost a year - either put is as 'Planned' or 'Not Planned' but leaving existing and potential customers dangling for so long is out of order. Once I know one way or the other I can move on and consider my remaining options.

I seriously dont believe a company of Sonos' size and technical prowess does not yet know if this is feasible or not.
Personally it is Sonos' lack of any meaningful reply that I find most frustrating.

How can something be 'Under Consideration' for almost a year - either put is as 'Planned' or 'Not Planned' but leaving existing and potential customers dangling for so long is out of order. Once I know one way or the other I can move on and consider my remaining options.

I seriously dont believe a company of Sonos' size and technical prowess does not yet know if this is feasible or not.


They certainly know if it is feasible. Whether it is cost effective is another story. That type of analysis takes time. Also, never underestimate the power of corporate paralysis when it comes to making decisions like this. No company or organization is immune from it. Obviously, a high level decision was made to release the Playbar sans DTS. Those high level decision makers would have to admit they were wrong in order to now release it with DTS. That's a pretty paralyzing effect on the engineers and marketing folks who have to tell those high level people they were wrong.
I seriously dont believe a company of Sonos' size and technical prowess does not yet know if this is feasible or not.
If there was a technical block on this it would be 'not planned'. (Spotify Radio is a case in point as it lacks the relevant API.) The fact that it isn't 'planned' means they don't have it scheduled.

Idea Status Definitions
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The following emails are a communication I had with Sharp when buying my TV for my new basement reno. I don't know of any other Sharp models, but mine will pass through the above. It also says the same (not verbatim). I will try to find that online ant post.




Dear Valued Sharp Customer,

Thank you for contacting Sharp Electronics of Canada Ltd.
I will be happy to assist you. Yes our system's do allow for Dolby digital as well.


We thank you in advance for your cooperation



Very best regards,



Crystal R

Customer Care Specialist

Customer Care Centre

Sharp Electronics Of Canada Ltd.



Important: In your reply, please be sure to include all information from prior email messages & replies. If your email client automatically deletes prior email thread information, it will create delays while we search for your previous support history.



--Original Message--
From:]12/31/2013 1:29:53 PM
To: [
Subject: Re: Email sent from Sharp Canada Contact us page [#3224372]


Does it also pass DTS?



Sent from my iPhone

 Hide message history



On Dec 31, 2013, at 12:48 PM, Sharp Support wrote:





Dear Valued Sharp Customer,

Thank you for contacting Sharp Electronics of Canada Ltd.
I will be happy to assist you today. Yes the unit does send a Dolby Digital signal though the Optical port.


We thank you in advance for your cooperation



Very best regards,



Crystal R

Customer Care Specialist

Customer Care Centre

Sharp Electronics Of Canada Ltd.



Important: In your reply, please be sure to include all information from prior email messages & replies. If your email client automatically deletes prior email thread information, it will create delays while we search for your previous support history.



--Original Message--
From:
Date: 12/30/2013 6:15:16 AM
To:
Subject: Email sent from Sharp Canada Contact us page

Hello,

I just purchased a 70le757u and I am looking at different audio options.
The one question I have is does this Tv send out a Dolby Digital signal though the Optical (Toslink) cable?










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Audio Setup
You can output digital audio to an AV amplifi er or
similar device whose DIGITAL AUDIO INPUT terminal is
connected to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminal on the
TV. Please select an audio output format compatible with
the audio format of the program you are watching and
the equipment connected.
PCM: For connecting to equipment that does not
support Dolby Digital and DTS. The same audio
(main, sub, or main/sub) as the audio of the
program being viewed is output.
2-channel audio with a sampling rate of 48 kHz or
less is output as linear PCM audio.
Bitstream: For connecting to an audio system that
supports Dolby Digital and DTS. Audio is output
through both the main and sub channels.
NOTE
• Analog channel audio and video input audio are output
in PCM mode even when "Bitstream" is selected.
• PCM digital input signals are output in PCM mode
even when "Bitstream" is selected
This is a temporary diversion from the main subject, but things need to be set straight.

The role of a moderator, like a meeting chair is to organize and regulate the flow of discussion, not to jump in and out of the debate.

Completely wrong!

The primary role of the mods on this forum, in order of decreasing importance is:

1. To have their own independent opinions
2. To voice those opinions like any other Sonos customer
3. To take part in debates like any other Sonos customer
4. To criticise Sonos as their personal opinion dictates
5. To defend Sonos where their personal opinion dictates
6. To delete commercial spam
7. To organise/tidy the forums for the benefit of all users
8. To moderate commercially sensitive information leaks (e.g. from Beta users) or legally dubious information
9. To definitely not be a representative of Sonos in any way
10. At a pinch, to weigh in to discussions which have got out of hand and turned to bad language, full-on personal attacks, etc. Usually in these cases we confer with the other mods and Sonos contacts to get a view on the action which should be taken. I'm pleased to say it doesn't happen very often.

The above is not up for discussion!

But one of the worst things that can happen to these forums is when one user challenges another user (whether they are a moderator, a regular or otherwise) not on their opinion, but on their right to have one.

Keith
I will add that the status of "Not Currently Planned" EDIT: Correction "Under consideration" is a perfectly good and reasonable status which completely and concisely describes the state of play of a particular feature request. I struggle to see how people don't understand those three simple words.

It may not be what you want to hear, but that doesn't mean it's not a completely reasonable or accurate status to give.

It's also reasonable to expect that it is an up-to-date status: if Sonos changes their plans, the status will be updated. The date that the last post was made by Sonos on the subject is totally irrelevant. The status should be considered as accurate as if it had only just been posted.

It boggles my mind that people don't understand this very basic concept; that they are surprised that, after nagging Sonos for a status update they give the same answer.

Well, durr!

Keith
I will add that the status of "Not Currently Planned" is a perfectly good and reasonable status which completely and concisely describes the state of play of a particular feature request. I struggle to see how people don't understand those three simple words.

It may not be what you want to hear, but that doesn't mean it's not a completely reasonable or accurate status to give.

It's also reasonable to expect that it is an up-to-date status: if Sonos changes their plans, the status will be updated. The date that the last post was made by Sonos on the subject is totally irrelevant. The status should be considered as accurate as if it had only just been posted.

It boggles my mind that people don't understand this very basic concept; that they are surprised that, after nagging Sonos for a status update they give the same answer.

Well, durr!

Keith


Well, the DTS status is "under consideration..." ;)

I think people continue to repeat themselves for two main reasons. Firstly, it is an outlet for the continuing frustration of the lack of this feature and/or the lack of any more concrete information concerning this feature. Secondly, it is an opportunity to perhaps remind Sonos that even though the desire was there 10 months ago, the desire is still there, and the problem has not gone away in the mean time.

Whether either reason is a good one to continue the debate is ... debatable!

This thread though is about solving the DTS issue, in the absence of a DTS update from Sonos. One thing I am considering, is either a PS3 or a PS4 to use as a Blu-ray player, both of which are able to convert a Blu-ray DTS track to a DD5.1 track that is compatible with the Playbar. I don't want to have to spend money though until I know which way Sonos will go!

There are apparently a couple of other Blu-ray players that will also do the conversion but I haven't any experience with those. Also, there are some HDMI switches that can output a DD5.1 track, and also a stereo track when presented with DTS, but I am not aware of any that can do the conversion like the PS3/4. So, at the moment the only real solution if you want to enjoy your DTS Blu-rays in full proper surround is to buy one of those small number of Blu-ray players.
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Not sure if you have these in mind, but no need to buy a PS3/PS4 if you don't want the gaming capacity. My understanding, both from confirmation on these forums and via the user manuals, is that most Samsung Bluray players can reencode DTS into DD (certainly the BD-F6500 and BD-F7500 of the recent models). I can't personally vouch for the quality of those players (the user reviews rather oddly range from average to very good), although many people have suggested that there is very little difference in terms of picture quality between any Bluray player when playing 1080p material, apart from perhaps if you spend a fortune on a reference standard player. The Samsung players are significantly cheaper than the PS3/PS4.
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Indeed, DTS is 'under consideration' and not 'Not Currently Planned' since there is no such status.

The definition of 'under consideration' by Sonos also states " We encourage continued discussion and voting for these ideas"

Hence the continuing discussions in all their forms both at ask.sonos and here !
Indeed, DTS is 'under consideration' and not 'Not Currently Planned' since there is no such status.
Yes, my mistake. I have corrected my post above, but the message still stands. In fact a Sonos representative has stated: "When the status of Under Consideration changes to either Planned or Not Planned, this community will be among the first to know."

The point is, nagging for updates or complaining that there hasn't been one is rather silly.

The definition of 'under consideration' by Sonos also states " We encourage continued discussion and voting for these ideas"


Discussion is fine but, as I said, it seems very silly to expect or demand an update, or complain about a lack of recent update (as some have) when it's pretty obvious that the status hasn't changed.

Cheers,

Keith

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