FYI, getting your name on the list means that you’ll get an email when it’s available for pre-order.  If enough of ‘us’ are on that list, I’m sure we’ll get this thread updated with the link soon after it’s available.  In other words subscribing to this thread should be good enough if you don’t want to join discord.

Also, I think the concept videos are available through the links below.  They do not work for me while at work, so can’t say the links work for sure.

https://streamable.com/xj2fbf

https://streamable.com/5fqwg6

https://streamable.com/n7gih7

I signed up to Discord today but can’t find out how I actually get invited to their server. Keen to show how desperate I am for this. 
 

As a projector owner I’m really relieved on cost. I don’t need access to TV apps’ audio and I was expecting any HDFury device to come in much more expensive. 
 

If I had a non eARC TV I’d be looking at all of them is complexity, plus any other benefits of a new TV, and thinking that $400 might be better spent on a TV upgrade. But given the huge appeal of an all-Sonos household and the fact that projectors and ARC aren’t regularly partners, I feel we’ve really lucked out getting this support so soon. Well done to everyone who asked!

Discord is rather confusing, for me anyway.  Once you have your account setup, you’ll need to enter the ‘server’ you have an invite too.  You should be able to paste the discord URL back on page one when they ask for the server, and that will get you in. But as stated, it’s not necessary to preorder, it only allows you too see some discussion and get your name on the mailing list.

You’re right that the total cost of getting this to work is definitely something to consider, but  if you have a larger TV, $400 is much cheaper than a replacement TV, especially if your current TV isn’t old.  Even then, you’ll have the ability to use this device and setup in other rooms when you do upgrade your TV or projector to eARC.

I noticed the device below is often talked about in Discord or the AVS forums.  It seems like a good way to get the Arc connect out of your TV, that you can then feed to a switch or matrix to feed the dongle (and TV for other sources) to the Arc, if TV apps are important to you.  That may ultimately be cheaper than the HDFury equipment, but not as elegant.

https://www.amazon.com/Thenaudio-SHARC-Converter-Processor-384kHz/dp/B083QPCNQN/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=thenaudio&qid=1592935480&sr=8-1

Perfect, done. Thank you. 

ARCANA CHANGES

Looks like the HDFury team is making some changes to the Arcana design to make it both simpler and more powerful (a good combo, IMO):

After some internal discussions, we came to some considerations that we quickly want to submit to your approval.. or not... this below suggestion should not delay anything more than a couple of days. (estimated max 4 days extra delay) Concretely, ARCANA can gain new super power... if you want to... For some extra $ (max 10) we can provide a video output to Arcana, which means that people who plan to use it with a single source that does have any audio out, won't need any splitter to do so and the device will work on its own as standalone, out of the box. But this is just a small part of the new super power that can be gained here... Others benefits that this could bring:

- Arcana would be able to allow DV content playback from HDMI source on HDR10 display

- Video output could be tweaked at will (downscaled, hdcp converted, chroma/color depth/color space modification etc...)

- HDR metadata could be tweaked in real time

- OSD info possible if wanted

tl:dr - They’re adding a video output to Arcana so it won’t require a separate splitter after all

Plus they’re saying that preorders will begin this week for the first 400 units and that they’re anticipating 2-3 months for production from the time they pull the trigger. They’re still gauging interest over on their support Discord channel (https://discord.gg/XWzPRRP) if you want to get your name on the notification list. 

This makes a lot of sense to me, and if you need more than one device to input to the dongle, a simple switch will work, without requiring an actual matrix device. 

 This is true and I think it’s a better product overall.  I am little surprised by the move though as the added feature somewhat eliminates the need for, or better stated as ‘fit with’, HDFury’s other matrix/switching products.  I’m thinking specifically about their Diva, Maestro, and Vertex2 products.  All of these have a dedicated HDMI output for audio receiver’s and subwoofers at a lower video quality, in addition to the HDMI output for video.  If you used one of these products, you would not need the extra HDMI output in the Arcana.  You actually wouldn’t want to use it for video since it’s at lower video quality.

I suppose though that it reduces the chance that a customers disappointed with the product, if they did not get a proper switch/splitter/matrix to god with the Arcana.  Now, single source users need no additional equipment, and multisource only need to find an HDMI switch that does not reduce video quality.

Also, there is no doubt that the device will need an external power source, since HDMI splitting requires additional power.  I imagine it with be USB powered so it can connect to the back of a most TVs

They are quoting around $122 for Preorder and $159/$169 after that.  The price is definitely good for what I need, especially my main source is Apple TV 4K.

This is probably the key. They realized that they could make the product more user friendly, easier to understand, and, importantly, something that worked out of the box as a stand-alone product if you only had one device to hook up. Which might describe a bunch of people (99% of my viewing is done via Apple TV, so while I’ll probably still get an HDMI switch for the extra functionality, there are plenty of others who may not). All for very little additional cost. 

Plus, it’s obvious they’d been getting a lot of push-back on the Discord channel about the total cost of potentially having to Pair Arcana with Diva/Maestro/Vertex2. While those may be wonderful products, they’re not cheap by any means.  

I believe they’ve said there’s a USB-C port on it to provide power. I doubt they’ll include a power supply in the box for the cost they’re going for, but HDFury has been pleasantly surprising me throughout all of this so who knows. 

No doubt. With already being nearly $2k into this (Arc + One SLs + Sub + Wall Mounts), another $122 to get as much Atmos as possible out of my Apple TV is a no-brainer. 

There was mention of ‘big players’ getting involved, so perhaps the feature was requested by someone who could commit to a large order, or something of that nature.

One thought that popped into my mind though about this new change though.  That being that the majority of TVs  being sold today are smart TVs, with multiple HDMI inputs, CEC commands. and at least ARC capabilities.  Applying the Arcana solution currently means you give up all that functionality.  In order to use the TVs smart apps (or switching capabilities) you would need to get one of HDFury’s more expensive products or Thenaudio’s SHARC + HDMI switch...so a minimum of around $175 USD in addition to Arcana….to use some of what you’ve already paid for (still no HDMI switching at TV or CEC commands).

However, if HDFury would make the HDMI video output port on the Arcana ARC capable...able to receive ARC signal from the TV and pass it through to the HDMI port connected to the TV...then much of the TVs functionality is regained. Smart app audio from the TV would pass to the Arcana and then on to the Arc, for DD+, Atmos.  Other HDMI inputs to the TV would also pass through the same connection, so there isn’t a need for an external switch,  You would still have the one source where you what TrueHD/eARC that would go into the Arcana, pass video to the TV, and send audio to the Arc.

That sounds simple enough, but I’m not really sure what all goes into being an ARC ‘sink’ device, or to properly switch to the right audio and video combo depending on the current source.  Probably more difficult then I think.  I would not be surprised if such a feature added $100 to the costs and not really as appealing to consumers.

As  long as it’s standard/typical requirements for the cable and power supply, no problem.

I could see that. They specifically mentioned in one of the posts that it was a distributor they were talking to so maybe? 

I feel you, but at the same time I’m kind of looking forward to Arcana being the simplest possible solution to do what I want it to do - give me a way to get Atmos from my external devices to my Sonos Arc. I have no doubt that HDFury could (and probably will, down the road), throw the kitchen sink at this problem and come up with a solution that does everything anyone could possibly want. But I also have no doubt that that will take a lot longer and cost a whole lot more and will be a lot more complicated.

At this point, I’m going to count it as a minor miracle if they actually get Arcana into consumers’ hands by September/October considering that we’ve had our Arcs for a grand total of about 2 weeks now. I’m sure there will be other options that will open up other functionality but if I can just get Atmos from my source to the Arc, I'll, personally, be happy. 

(I, personally, will be VERY happy indeed considering that I don’t care a thing in the world about built-in TV apps or CEC control since I never use the apps and control everything with a Harmony Hub - but I may be in the minority). 

And just think, this all could have been avoided if Sonos had just stuck one more damn HDMI port on the freaking Arc…. ;-) 

I can agree with this, and don’t really know  how complicate it would be.  As I’ve said before adding more features to Arcana is taking away potential sales from other items.   As far as the kitchen sink goes, not 100% sure how big the market is for this, and they already pretty much cover everything with a combo of vertex2 and arcana.  I would not be surprised to see a vertex 3 have an eARC port added though.

This is the first I’m really seeing a product grow from original inception/need to actual product, so it’s interesting to see how all this develops.

I do use TV apps right now,  and firetv.  I tend to use the TV apps because I like the interface better, but also will share content across 2 TVs at times, which i can’t do with TV apps.  So it may be for the better.  And I don’t have a harmony remote, and all these changes are driving me in the direction of needing/wanting one.

I understand why it was not included, and would have been shocked given Sonos history if it had, but I would have liked to see it included.

I used to work for a company that manufactured relatively simple consumer electronics products. I’ve seen the process go extremely smoothly and quickly, and I’ve seen the process slog on disastrously for months or years. There’s a lot involved, and HDFury is being surprisingly open about the process. I know just enough about how it works to not sound like a complete idiot, but in general they still have to spin up the printed circuit boards, build and test production samples, cut steel for tooling (assuming Arcana is going to have some sort of plastic housing rather than just being a bare board), make packaging, produce and pack up final units, then start distributing them to users. And they haven’t even finished designing the PCB layout because they literally just made physical board changes and added an entire new feature set YESTERDAY. There’s also a software / firmware component in there and I literally have no idea how that works or what timeframes are like. 

Add all of that up, and that’s why I’m saying it will be a minor miracle if any of us have this in hand even before the end of the year, much less by Sept/Oct. They look like they are moving very, very fast and my hat’s off to them for it. 

I’m the opposite - I’ve used a bunch of streaming boxes (Roku, built-in apps, TiVo, even Boxee if you remember that one from way back) and Apple TV has far and away the nicest, slickest, easiest-to-use interface of them all IMO. The built-in apps always feel like I’m navigating through molasses, no matter which TV I’ve ever tried (and certainly on my Vizio). Apple TV is smooth as silk - and it doesn’t hurt that I’m super tied into the Apple ecosystem in general so all my stuff is there and just works (HomeKit, Siri, AirPlay, Apple Music, Photos, apps, etc.). 

As for Harmony, it’s wonderful and it sucks in equal measure. Setup is atrocious, even with the newest Harmony Hub (the iOS app is needlessly slow and confusing). It’s flexible as hell, but you’ve got to WANT to make the thing work. But once it does work, it’s awesome. And you can hand your significant other, kids, or guests a remote that looks like a real remote and has nice big buttons that say exactly what you want to do (“Watch a Movie,” “Watch Apple TV,” etc.). I have two Harmony Hubs in my house, and have set up my Mom/Stepdad, Dad/Stepmom, best friend, and uncle with them as well. 

I’m new to Sonos so don't know anything about their history, but from what I see and hear I’m getting a serious “Apple vibe” in terms of how they think and act. And I’ve been an Apple guy for decades at this point so that’s a mentality I fully get, no matter how frustrating it is sometimes.

Sonos made a very conscious decision to have the Arc be as ultra-simple as possible which, in the long run, is absolutely going to be the right call. Within a few years there will be a plurality of TVs out there that support HDMI-eARC and those owners who purchase the Arc will be very happy, indeed as they’ll get the best possible sound by hooking up only a single HDMI cable from their TV to their Arcs. Simple, easy, effective, user-friendly…. if you have the right/newest equipment. Very much the Apple way. ;-) 

It’s just causing us pain at the moment because eARC is pretty bleeding edge and we Arc early adopters still want everything it brings to the table. Which is why I’m super glad we’ve got people out there like HDFury who are helping us work around these teething pains. 

Speaking of watching this develop in real-time @melvimbe, this was literally just posted on HDFury’s Discord channel: 

HDfuryToday at 12:38 PM

@Michiel For the moment consider you will have to use IR learning, we are checking if we can handle cec forwarding and clear that as well. CEC TV > ARCANA > sources will work, CEC TV > ARCANA > SONOS ARC, not sure yet, but we have a few ideas to try before concluding.

So, it sounds like they’re trying to figure out CEC control as part of Arcana. Gotta love these guys! 

As a Harmony Hub owner, I’ve never cared about CEC. Would someone mind explaining what they need CEC to do, via HDMI, to care about its implementation here?

For me, it’s PS4/ATV/Xbox/Switch - HDMI Switch - Arcana - Arc and Projector.

Harmony Hub turns on the projector and brings down a screen, usually done by voice. Then I tend to navigate ATV with my iPhone or the Apple Remote App, and obviously use game controllers on the consoles. So the sole use for my Harmony Remote or Harmony App is to adjust the volume, which I used to do on a Receiver, and now will do on an amp (for which I’m going to have to fool my Harmony into thinking I have a TV, then teach the Arc that TV’s volume commands).

Am I right in saying that people care about CEC so they can use TV remotes to control volume via HDMI not IR? Or is there a bigger reason?

That’s one of the reasons. CEC can also turn things on / off as you need them. E.g., if you turn your Blu-ray player on it can turn the TV on and turn it to the right input. As a Harmony user I’ve always needed to turn all that stuff off because CEC inevitably screws things up by trying to do what it thinks I want rather than just listening to the Harmony telling the equipment (via IR) exactly what I want it to do. 

In my drastically simplified setup, I’m using CEC to control the Arc’s volume via the TV, but once I get the Arcana will obviously have to control the Arc directly (assuming HDFury doesn’t end up getting CEC to work with Arcana). But, for me the end result is the same - everything is controlled from my Harmony remote. 

That’s a nice feature.  CEC control of features will be nice, as I do find it convenient to have a source turn off the TV  (xbox).  If using a switch would want to make sure that gets past through.  CEC control of the ARC...eh.  The problem with CEC control between Arc and TV (assuming same experience between Beam and TV) is that many commands TVs just ignore, or only follow if the command is coming from current HDMI input (which for the Beam and Arc, without Arcana, is never) So you usually can’t usually use the Beam/Arc to turn TV on/off or switch inputs.  You can control volume of the Beam/Arc though, which you can already do via IR commands...which is actually better since the TV doesn’t need to be on for IR to work, while CEC needs the TV on.

If they do manage to have CEC between TV and Arc via Arcana, makes me think that TV Arc support isn’t too far behind.

I had asked about ARC as well - and they were not too encouraging.  I found a 3x1 switch that purports to do ARC - but maybe not in the way I need -  that I hope to use with Arcana. 

https://www.amazon.com/Koopman-Switcher-Extractor-Splitter-Converter/dp/B0811JZDQN/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Koopman+ARC&qid=1593039669&sr=8-4

For 29.00 I thought it might be worth a shot - I got last years Sony OLED A8G w/o eARC openbox at big saving and hoped not to spend what I saved over the A8H...

I have a bestbuy tv from 2016 and have a Comcast cable box and then there are apps available from Comcast would Atmos be available if I got the arcana in this situation and also have they said if it comes with HDMI cables required between devices?

As long as your Comcast box actually supports Atmos from streaming apps (which it looks like the Xfinity X1 does), then Arcana should be just the ticket to get Atmos to your Sonos Arc as it totally bypasses your TV. 

For the estimated $122 pre-order price of Arcana, I highly doubt it will come with HDMI cables. But I’m just speculating. 

From HDFury’s latest updates, I can see why they’re able to move so quickly - they are the factory and their offices and fabrication facility are literally in the same building. They’re not having to shop out to a contract manufacturer which would slow things down. Very cool to see! 

HDFury’s existing products do not come with HDMI cables, so it would be surprising for Arcana to come with HDMI cables for that reason as well.  Besides the added cost, customers are going to require different lengths and quality of cable depending on their specific case.  I actually would not want another cable to throw into the spare cable box.

Their other products do have other related cables that customers are less likely to have already, so I bet it will come with USB charging cable and perhaps the power supply.

Pre-order starts today! Hooray. 
 

Can anyone advise on my AppleTV and Atmos/DTS question? I mainly use ATV as my source, for apps like Netflix but also play BluRay rips via Infuse. So some of my content is DTS. 
 

I know I’ll never get any audio if I feed a DTS signal to the Arc. So, to avoid any settings switching, my understanding is I need to ensure that any device which outputs to the Arc is sending a format that sends converting any sound data into uncompressed multichannel audio, with Atmos metadata. Does something exist that will support, say, a DTS-MA 7.1 stream and a full-fat Dolby Atmos stream? Is that MAT? Does Apple TV support this? And does Arc support it yet or is that what we’re waiting for?

They are still just collecting names of people who want to be notified when you can official put in an official preorder.  They are currently stating preorder page could be up and running as early as tomorrow or Wednesday.  They are saying that those on the list will get first crack at preorder, but I’m not exactly sure what that means, how that would be enforced.

They are also hinting that there will a ‘surprise’ additional function announce before or when prorder opens.  A few diagrams are given to hint at what that new function may be which people believe is additional ARC functionality.  Specifically that the ARCANA  HDMI output port that feeds the TV might be ARC enabled so that it can receive ARC audio from a TV (for when you’re using TV smart apps) that ARCANA can then pass on to the Sonos Arc.  That would also mean that you could connect HDMI sources that have audio codecs/formats your TV can handle directly to the other TV HDMI inputs, allowing your TV to send that audio (and TV smart apps) to the ARCANA via HDMI ARC...and passed to the Sonos Arc.  You would not need a HDMI switch for mutliple sources inf only one source requires eARC.

Some technical thoughts on that...that means the ARCANA has two potential sources of audio, either it’s HDMI source or the TV via ARC connection.  It would need to have a switching capability in order to know what audio to pass to a Sonos Arc.  That switch could be manual, meaning you’d have another item to control.  The other option is that ARCANA could have an auto switch of some kind.  It could be that if there is no audio from an HDMI source, use the ARC connection from TV, but that means you have to turn off HDMI sources.  The other is that the HDMI output from ARCANA to the TV is video only….meaning that audio coming from the TV via ARC connection should always be displayed….since you will only get audio from there if the TV is playing smart apps or HDMI source not passing through ARCANA.  If so, that would be pretty smart.

That would be a rather handy feature, although it is not confirm yet.  It could be that the connection is just CEC control.  Still useful, but not as much so.

What is  confusing some is that there is also a diagram posted involving the Sharc , which can take an ARC signal from a TV and pass it out over normal HDMI audio.  You could then pass it to an HDMI switch, passing it to ARCANA.  You’ve essentially achieved what it looks like ARCANA was trying to illustrate above...getting TV smart apps to your Sonos Arc.  It could be that HD Fury included to illustrate that you no longer need to spend $150 on a Sharc (or an HDMI switch that can do similar).  Although perhaps there are beneifits to this ‘Sharc method’ as well, as you can now control that audio through the HDMI switch. If the switch is a matrix, you could send that audio to a second audio system...perhaps in the case where you have a system that supports DTS.  Not sure that would apply to many people though. 

As an aside...one thing that could become a factor later on in the future, is the whole ARCANA setup assumes there will never be any useful video content coming from a Sonos Arc.  While it is just a screensaver now, there could be a point where Sonos generates useful video content to display on the TV, such as information on what’s currently playing.  If something like that happens, ARCANA would ‘block’ whatever that content is.   Perhaps this is something HD Fury could fix with firmware, but I doubt it.  Such a feature could possibly be something ARCANA users just don’t use, or perhaps it’s would be something for ARCANA 2.0.  All hypothetical right now.