Blu Ray player that converts to Dolby Digital 5.1

The trouble is everything is "just a matter of time". We buy something today, and before you get it home, it's out of date or being made obsolete by some whizo new device. (slight exaggeration here, I admit).
I didn't say they'd fix the existing product - I said they'd do something. It doesn't mean it's something you'll like. 😉

Oh, it won't be in my favour, I know. I have this gut feeling that Sonos are going to bring out a revised Playbar which will address the latest codec issues. When is another question entirely. Though I am one of those people who have taken the offer of buying on a 100 day return basis, and I need to decide very soon if I am going to keep it or not.
As a sceptic, I am now wondering if this 100 day thing is a last push to get rid of the existing stock in readiness for their replacements.

The hundred day offer has been around for ages.

Oh, it won't be in my favour, I know. I have this gut feeling that Sonos are going to bring out a revised Playbar which will address the latest codec issues. When is another question entirely. Though I am one of those people who have taken the offer of buying on a 100 day return basis, and I need to decide very soon if I am going to keep it or not.
As a sceptic, I am now wondering if this 100 day thing is a last push to get rid of the existing stock in readiness for their replacements.

You can be fairly confident that any new product Sonos releases in the near future will not support DTS. There isn't any technical reason the existing PLAYBAR won't do it now, it's purely a licensing limitation.

You can be fairly confident that any new product Sonos releases in the near future will not support DTS. There isn't any technical reason the existing PLAYBAR won't do it now, it's purely a licensing limitation.DD+ would be a big help.

Or if you don't have the rears, you can just use LPCM or analog - much easier. 🙂

DD+ would be a big help.

Or if you don't have the rears, you can just use LPCM or analog - much easier. :)

DD+ isn't going to happen without HDMI.

DD+ would be a big help.

Or if you don't have the rears, you can just use LPCM or analog - much easier. :)

DD+ isn't going to happen without HDMI.

Technically TOSLINK can and does carry DD+ as well as DTS-HD HR, at least up to the Blu-Ray bandwidth of both, it's just a very unusual implementation (and on no consumer audio gear that I know of). But I have a TV that will happily output it over POF.

But, yes, HDMI is the way to go to remain relevant. Even on AVRs, the optical and coax digital audio ports are already disappearing in favor of more HDMI, with unbalanced analog audio handily outnumbering the digital audio inputs - which was definitely not the case 5-10 years ago.

There is minimal benefit to allowing PLAYBAR to receive a low quality DD+ signal over optical. It should support the full quality, otherwise where is the benefit? Any broadcaster sending DD+ is likely to also send a standard AC3 stream along with it.

The game changer here is going to be when Apple announces the new Apple TV set top box. Currently Apple are well behind the game, they don't support 4k, HDR or modern audio codecs. The new TV box will sort this and create a product the Sonos care about. They've never really cared for disc owners, they're a streaming company, so they see the future of PLAYBAR as Netflix, Amazon Prime etc.

Sonos has always wanted to appeal to the Apple crowd - iPhone controller came well before Android, they supported iTunes from day one, they added ALAC support, they even created an iPhone dock product. They watch Apple and follow what they do.

When Sonos owners start buying the new Apple TV device it will make Sonos step back and go "does this work with our kit?" The answer will be "not very well".

Any DD+ source is required to send an AC-3 stream as well by its very nature - it contains an AC-3 bitstream with extensions (hence E-AC-3). Most things, including a 15 year old receiver I know of, will read a DD+ as a DD stream if it's output over TOSLINK... Sonos does not. No idea why, but it doesn't.

A lower bandwidth DD+ bitstream over TOSLINK is still the same bitstream as a Blu-Ray uses with DD+, so it's as close to, "Full quality," as you're likely to get. Particularly with surround content with heavy use of the rear channels, there's a big difference in performance over ordinary Dolby Digital.

I definitely agree about the Apple TV though - and the next generation may not even have TOSLINK out at this point. HDMI is much more Apple-like, with a single AV cable, which would leave Sonos scrambling.

I sincerely doubt the new Apple TV will have TOSLINK, even Amazon didn't bother on the 4k FireTV - they expect anybody using one to have compatible audio.

The problem with codecs is licensing. To add AC-3 to a device, you have to license it from Dolby. To add E-AC-3 you need another license which adds to costs.

The AC-3 licensing is fairly open, you can decode AC-3 into a bitstream and do what you like with it. The Sonos mesh allows you to pipe the decoded audio into another room. So you can watch a movie or TV in DD5.1 in the LIving Room and hear the sound in the next room through the Sonos player in there.

DTS licensing is a lot more restrictive. You can decode DTS locally on the device and output it to local speakers, but cannot output anywhere else. To do so requires a second license. For Sonos to support DTS, they would need to purchase a DTS license for every Sonos player ever made. Clearly the costs outweighed the benefit.

Several similar soundbar products also skip DTS, likely for similar reasons. If you've for a sound bar and wireless surround speaker, you likely need a DTS license for all of them. In Sonos' case, the wireless surround is the music speaker, adding to complication.

I'm not familiar with DD+ licensing, but I expect it may be similar to the DTS licensing - otherwise I expect it would be more widely adopted.

We're going to see the same thing happen with HDR video formats - Samsung refuse to pay for Dolby Vision.