Are we being taken for hams?

N
Badge

Hello to all,

I was wondering about a simple but important question: wouldn't Sonos take us for donkeys?

Let me explain:

- I had a Beam gen 1 and was quite annoyed not to be able to read the Dolby Digital + format present on many movies/series and even Netflix. For that, Sonos says you need a Beam Gen2 with E-ARC. So I bought this gen 2, and it works.

Problem -> In 2013, I had an Onkyo HT + Focal SIB, and this amp decoded all formats with a simple HDMI ARC plug.

I don't understand why you absolutely need a Beam 2 to decode DD+ for example.

Another point: I connected the beam 2 to a Fury Arcana HD box to benefit from an E-ARC output and avoid any lip sync problem.

However, when I connect the Beam 2 directly to my TV in classic HDMI ARC, it decodes very well the DD+ or even Atmos format! I don't need to connect it in E-ARC to read these formats. The ARC standard being backwards compatible, the signal transmission is done in ARC standard since my TV is flanged that way.

So we can conclude that it is only a software limitation in order to push us to buy the new models (proof is...I did it myself!)

What a sad time...

This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

17 replies

melvimbe

Hello to all,

I was wondering about a simple but important question: wouldn't Sonos take us for donkeys?

Let me explain:

- I had a Beam gen 1 and was quite annoyed not to be able to read the Dolby Digital + format present on many movies/series and even Netflix. For that, Sonos says you need a Beam Gen2 with E-ARC. So I bought this gen 2, and it works.

Problem -> In 2013, I had an Onkyo HT + Focal SIB, and this amp decoded all formats with a simple HDMI ARC plug.

I don't understand why you absolutely need a Beam 2 to decode DD+ for example.

 

 

Sonos has a track record of adding features to existing products through firmware updates whenever the hardware can handle the feature.  It’s possible that wasn’t the case for the Beam Gen 1, that the hardware was capable of handling DD+,  but seems unlikely.  I don’t recall whether there was discussion about this when the Gen 2 came out.  Either way, you knew the features of the Gen 1 when you bought it, there was never a promise of DD+ or anything else added later, so I don’t see how anyone was cheated out of anything.

Regardless of any of that, I seriously doubt the Gen 1 is capable of playing atmos content which is the bigger draw for Beam  Gen 2.

 

Another point: I connected the beam 2 to a Fury Arcana HD box to benefit from an E-ARC output and avoid any lip sync problem.

However, when I connect the Beam 2 directly to my TV in classic HDMI ARC, it decodes very well the DD+ or even Atmos format! I don't need to connect it in E-ARC to read these formats. The ARC standard being backwards compatible, the signal transmission is done in ARC standard since my TV is flanged that way.

So we can conclude that it is only a software limitation in order to push us to buy the new models (proof is...I did it myself!)

What a sad time...

 

Sonos has never said you need E-Arc capabilities for DD+.  It’s not even for Sonos to say since it’s an industry standard. And yes, DD+ can carry atmos signal, though DD+ compressed. Almost all streaming services use DD+, so ARC is good enough if this is your interest.  E-ARC is required for TrueHD, uncompressed, which is what you will find on blue-ray discs.

So the reasons to get an Arcana, or similar device, is because your TV isn’t ARC or eARC capable, and thus can’t provide the audio you want, or because your TV’s firmware doesn’t handle  ARC/eARC properly...resulting in lip sync issues or other problems.  A TVs main focus is video, and thus they don’t prioritize audio concerns.  The Arcana exists mainly for the audio, and thus they have to get it right.

Danny
N
Badge

So you have to explain to me how the beam gen 1 is not technically capable of reading DD+.

jgatie

So you have to explain to me how the beam gen 1 is not technically capable of reading DD+.

 

No, you have to explain why you think it is, considering it has never been listed as being capable of DD+ since its inception. 

N
Badge

This is just common sense. Indeed I didn't pay attention when I bought the beam 1 that it was not dd+ compatible.

But how can a technology dating from 2010 know perfectly well how to decode an audio format, and not a rather expensive sound bar in 2018, while it uses the same medium (HDMI arc)

This is simply bad faith. For me it was logical that it decodes it.

 

Beside that we come to propose us dolby atmos on a simple sound bar unable to diffuse it correctly. It's just marketing, but they'd better propose products compatible with the standards already! 

J

@Nyvek .  When the Beam gen 1 was designed, there would have been little advantage in DD+ capability, as Atmos was a new technology with an uncertain future.  What has changed between the two generations is the memory (RAM and storage), so that may be the reason the gen 1 cannot be upgraded to handle DD+.  Or it may not be that.  I don’t know, and neither do you.

But what I do know is that Sonos has an excellent record of NOT behaving as you suggest.  Did i need to replace my gen 2 Play:5 with a Sonos Five to get Airplay?  No, it was added as a free upgrade.  Same goes for HiRes support.  And what about DTS on soundbars?  I could give you a dozen more examples.

So i choose to believe Sonos is innocent of your accusation until proven guilty, on the grounds of previous good conduct an excellent character references.  You can choose to think them guilty as charged.  Given your cynicism and suspicion I suggest you go onto eBay and sell your Sonos gear.

N
Badge

I don't think a 12 year old avr has a more powerful processor or more RAM.

Once again, no constructive response.

The least you can do is be transparent and say why they don't. I'm not the only one who asked the question.

Oh yes, they can't give explanations because there are none. Dolby digital + has been used for a few years now, not to mention atmos.

In short, nobody has a concrete answer.

J

I am not sure in what sense anything you have written is constructive.  But who cares?  Believe what you like.  The degree of suspicion and cynicism exhibited by different individuals varies greatly.  We appear to be at different ends of the spectrum.  So be it.

N
Badge

One more thing:

I have some nice floorstanding speakers and a subwoofer. I said to myself: well, why not look at the sonos amp to connect them on it, connect my symfonisk in surround and benefit from a 4.1 sound. because it bothers me to have 2 different systems and not to be able to enjoy my Apogee in cinema.

Oh no, the sonos amp doesn't seem to decode the dd+ either.

Really a pity.

 

And for my part I do not seek to establish a constructive deception but only to expose it. But I have to deal with fan boys apparently.

Mr. T
Userlevel 7

How are you exposing any deception when the Amp’s product page clearly states the Home Cinema Audio Formats that it will play?

On the plus side, at least you done your research this time.

N
Badge

What a disappointment? Not offering the most basic decoding! A bit like buying a car in 2023 without power steering. Except for specific cases, all cars for a large public will be equipped with it. Which is common sense.

jgatie

What a disappointment? Not offering the most basic decoding! A bit like buying a car in 2023 without power steering. Except for specific cases, all cars for a large public will be equipped with it. Which is common sense.

 

I suggest you cease whining about it, sell your Sonos (it does very well in the second hand market) and move on.  Not every company is a perfect match with every consumer. 

J

Good luck with whichever system and trustworthy company you decide to go with, which better meets your individual needs.  As @jgatie says, Sonos isn’t the right product for everyone.

N
Badge

Oh yes, don't worry, as soon as I find the perfect solution I will leave the sonos ecosystem.

It's really distressing not to be able to recognize that some things are aberrant. In fact the Sonos community is as bad as the Sonos team itself. A bit like Apple's in fact, as soon as you criticize their fetish system. And don't get me wrong, I'm as much an Android fan as an Apple fan.

Oh yeah! Another aberration from Sonos! I was forced to take an iPhone to use Trrueplay! I knew it from the start, don't worry, and I first used a friend's iPhone to set up Trueplay. But when you have to reconfigure the system several times in a short period of time, after a while it was better to get one instead of bothering my friends.
They are not able to offer a universal microphone for all users, or AT LEAST market it to satisfy everyone. No, more bad faith! 

Anyway, good continuation to you gentlemen :)

J

And my best wishes to you. It has been an enjoyable discussion. Thank you for your original and perceptive observations .

N
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Oh yes, don't worry, as soon as I find the perfect solution I will leave the sonos ecosystem.

It's really distressing not to be able to recognize that some things are aberrant. In fact the Sonos community is as bad as the Sonos team itself. A bit like Apple's in fact, as soon as you criticize their fetish system. And don't get me wrong, I'm as much an Android fan as an Apple fan.

 

I think you’re wrong here, @Nyvek   Many of your points in your original post were wrong, and this was explained to you in answers above. Certainly there are some very strong Sonos supporters on these threads. They know the products well, and are keen to correct false information, as has happened here. How you interpret that desire of theirs for accurate information to be seen in posts is your opinion; I see it differently. 

When it comes to purchasing kit, there is an onus on a buyer to check a product meets their requirements before purchase. To hope/expect features will appear later is naive optimism. Still, your Sonos product ownership has helped you cement ideas and product features for your future needs.
 

Perhaps you could let us know what you choose once you’ve done your research?

melvimbe

Oh yes, don't worry, as soon as I find the perfect solution I will leave the sonos ecosystem.

It's really distressing not to be able to recognize that some things are aberrant. In fact the Sonos community is as bad as the Sonos team itself.

 

Sonos has never in it’s entire history adopted every standard out there like other companies.  They did not adopt bluetooth.  The used optical instead of HDMI passthrough.  The didn’t adopt DTS till recently.  They didn’t do hi-res till recently.  And many other features.  People have been predicting Sonos doom for lack of whatever, for ages.   I don’t find it distressing at all.  That’s not to say that I don’t recognize that features are missing, and some of them I wish were there.  Lack of DD+ and previous gen Beam is not at all high on my list.

Danny
N
Badge

After a lot of research, and depending on what I would like, I think I'll go with this:

- YAMAHA RX-V6A amp for decoding, HDMI connections and physical center channel.

- 1 x central to define (like CHORUS CC-700)

- 2 x YAMAHA MUSICCAST 20 to connect in wifi for the surrounds.

-> I would use my Behringer A800 as a power amp to feed my 2 Apogee Centaur Minor that I could connect to the Yamaha pre-out for the front channels.
I would connect my SVS sb-12nsd to the Yamaha.

NORMALLY, I should be happy. The resale of the Beam 2, Sub 3 and Symfonisk + my home player RPI + Allo piano 2.1 + reclocker with Moode audio as well as the FX Audio preamp should cover the expenses.

Don't blame me for my criticisms about Sonos, it's still an excellent solution but lacks some (sometimes very basic) functionality for ME. And that was my gripe (I got tired of spending on an HD Fury Arcana to make up for the audio latency, then an iphone for trueplay, then the Beam 2 for DD+ decode etc... even though I failed to do some research.

Terms & ConditionsCookie settings