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Pioneer VSX-LX103 "Works with Sonos"... not working with Sonos ZP80

  • 15 October 2018
  • 23 replies
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I bought a Pioneer VSX-LX103 today and and am trying to get it to work with my SONOS ZP80 (which I believe is the old version of the SONOS Connect). The LX103 is listed as being supported by "Works with SONOS" http://sonos.pioneerhomeusa.com. I get it home from Best Buy, install the latest firmware on the receiver and then follow the instructions here - http://sonos.pioneerhomeusa.com/assets/PioneerElite+Sonos-01.mp4

I get to the step to select the Connected Device under Hardware > Works with SONOS but the ZP80 is not found. I've tried everything, connecting to different RCA inputs (everything except Phono because the video says that doesn't work) but all to no avail. The ZP80 is on the same wifi network as the receiver and I've updated my SONOS system today.

Really frustrated as this was one of the major drivers for me buying the Pioneer in the first place. It could be that the ZP80 isn't compatible with the "Works with SONOS" feature, but I can't afford to get a newer Connect only to find out that doesn't work either!

Any advice would be gratefully received. I've been buying into the SONOS ecosystem since the very first player and save for this setback I'm a SONOS devotee.
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Best answer by thebullet 15 October 2018, 16:31

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23 replies

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
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The ZP and Connect do work well but I think you may be misunderstanding the "Works With Sonos" system. I don't deal with that so I'll leave the details to folks that know them, aside from a wild guess you may need a Beam or the new Sonos Amp for that to work.

Hook the digital optical output from your ZP to the digital optical input (you should have 2) of the receiver, select that input and your ZP will play with no issues. Hook one of the analog outputs of your receiver to the analog inputs of the ZP and you should be able to select that in the ZP's menu to send audio from the receiver into your Sonos system.
Ken_Griffiths
thebullet,

I think the Receiver is supposed to work along the lines like you see in this YouTube video ...

https://youtu.be/R0sNmnStb5A

But I can’t say whether or not the ZP80 should work, as in the 'strictest of terms' it is not referred to as a 'Sonos Connect'. I think you may need the ZP90/Connect model, but I would contact either Sonos, or Pioneer, Support first and ask that question.

It would be nice to know the outcome of this one, just for future reference.?
Ken_Griffiths
thebullet,

You can contact Sonos Support 24/7, via Twitter, on this link to get an answer, perhaps?

Contact Sonos Support via Twitter.
melvimbe
Right. All the details I've seen with this part of the 'works with sonos' program refer to the Connect model, not any previous models.
Danny
Ken_Griffiths
Don’t you just hate buying a new piece of kit, to then find it actually doesn’t work as you hoped for. It usually means you end up spending lots more money just to get it working... it’s a pain in the ass sometimes and this looks like a good example of that. Though I guess Stanley_4 is right above, it will work in the way he describes, but it’s knowing how it could have been so much easier with the newer 'Connect' model.
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Thanks Danny, Ken and Stanley! The SONOS works fine playing through the receiver but it's the Works with SONOS features that I can't get to work, namely:

- turning the receiver on when it gets a signal from the SONOS
- controlling the receiver volume through the SONOS app

The Pioneer simply won't detect the SONOS ZP80 when I try to Connect in the Hardware > Works With SONOS menu on the receiver. I fear that it may be that the ZP80 is simply not supported and I need to get a newer one, but that adds another $350 to my purchase, which I'm not best pleased about. I'll reach out to SONOS support and Pioneer to get to the bottom of this and share with everyone so others don't make the same mistake.
T
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SONOS got back to me very quickly saying that the ZP80 should work - https://twitter.com/SonosSupport/status/1051835001476734977 Next step calling Pioneer Support...
Ken_Griffiths
I know on the Android version of the sonos controller, there is an API option in advanced settings that is entitled ,"control from other devices", but I have always thought of that option as being for use with watches, wearables and remotes from 3rd party android based suppliers. I am just wondering if it needs to be switched on in a controller linked to the local network ... This is just complete guesswork on my part though, so dont be too disappointed if that does not fix the problem.
Ken_Griffiths
I really can’t see the API Control being at the controller level in this case and more likely at the hardware level, but nothing ventured, nothing gained eh?
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I spoke to a Pioneer support person who was helpful and has given me some ideas to test later. He seemed to think it's a connectivity issue with the receiver simply unable to find the SONOS ZP80 (original SONOS Connect) on my network. He also asked some questions about my Wifi network, indicating there could be problems if my router has dual bandwidth configured (2.4 vs 5 GHz). I'm using Google Wifi Mesh routers in my home so there isn't that option anyway. Btw my SONOS ZP80 is currently plugged in directly to my router (via an 8-port gigabit switch) so I'm going to try removing the ethernet and setting it up purely over Wifi.
Chris
Userlevel 7
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zp80 if running the current software should be working fine.

yea try hooking direct to router not through the switch.
Respect the Queue (1)Move (2)Beam (1)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1)Connect:Amp (3)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings
Chris
Userlevel 7
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are you sure your pioneer is getting network connectivity?
Respect the Queue (1)Move (2)Beam (1)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1)Connect:Amp (3)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings
T
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@Chris, I was able to download and install the latest firmware on the receiver so the Wifi appears to be working fine.
Chris
Userlevel 7
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can you try hooking the ZP80 into ethernet of your router direct vs. via switch.
Respect the Queue (1)Move (2)Beam (1)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1)Connect:Amp (3)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings
Ken_Griffiths
The one known problem with the Google Hubs is that they select their own WiFi channel automatically and the hub channels cannot be manually changed either.. Sonos products all need the same channel and presumably the pioneer Receiver probably cannot see SonosNet radio either... so I reckon therein somewhere, lies the connection issue.
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Success! So I wired the receiver ethernet directly to the SONOS ZP80 in the second port (the first port being wired into my switch). I then disabled Wifi on the receiver (under the Network menu > Wifi > Off (Wired)). The ZP80 was detected immediately. I realized switching to wired connectivity was the key here so I then moved the receiver ethernet cable from the back of my SONOS to my switch. Still works! I followed the rest of the instructions, setting volume level and power management and tested playing a track in the SONOS app with the receiver off. Bingo, the receiver powers on and sets the volume level as specified. Next step was trying to group my receiver with another player... After a few seconds I started noticing distortion, with the sound coming out of the speakers connected to my receiver cutting out and going very quiet. The solution to this seems to be disabling Wifi on my SONOS ZP80. It's connected to the switch so I don't need Wifi enabled right?! So with wifi disabled there appears to be no distortion so far and I'm already three songs in, merrily dancing around my apartment with glee.

In summary, the ZP80 works perfectly, the trick in my case, and I'm pretty certain it has nothing to do with the ZP80, but more likely my network setup, was to use wired network on the receiver (disabling wifi) AND disabling wifi on the SONOS ZP80. One frustration is that the receiver volume isn't controlled by the SONOS app and only via my Pioneer remote. I thought that was one of the features of "Works with SONOS" but I could be wrong.

Hope my findings helps somebody else in a similar predicament. Thanks to everyone involved helping me troubleshoot this. I haven't had need to post anything on the community forum for 11 years since my last post, which is testament to the solid build of SONOS. Let's hope all the components last another 11 years! Kudos SONOS. Can you imagine an Apple product lasting 11 years these days... er no I didn't think so 😉
Chris
Userlevel 7
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Glad you got it going. Sounds to me like the Sonos wifi channel is interfering with the google wifi channel (must be in close proximity).
Respect the Queue (1)Move (2)Beam (1)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1)Connect:Amp (3)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings
Ken_Griffiths
thebullet,

I’m sorry to say, I have read so many bad things about Google Hubs.

If I had a similar setup, I would personally switch the main router, that I now have from my internet service provider, into 'modem mode' meaning it becomes just a modem connection only. I would then plug a small unmanaged 'switch' into the configured 'modem'.

Next I would plug two things into the switch, the main google hub/wifi-router and a Single sonos device to begin the SonosNet radio network, keeping them far apart from each other.

I would setup my Google Hubs around the house and find out what channels they are using on the 2.4ghz band using wifiinfoview free scanner software and then make sure that SonosNet was on a completely different non-overlapping wifi channel and then go from there with my network.

As mentioned earlier, I am told that the Google Hubs cannot be set to use static WiFi channels and so they tend to jump about the wifi channels automatically and that is when they can be a nuisance (apparently) and interfere with SonosNet, but it’s the best way I can think of setting up such a system, without cabling even more things to the switch.

I would let all Sonos Speakers, ZP80 etc. link over SonosNet and let the pioneer receiver find the ZP80 by attaching it to the WiFi signal broadcast from the Google Hubs

The above of course is just my own personal opinion.

Anyhow I’m also glad to hear you got your new Pioneer Receiver (and ZP80) working together over the 'Works with Sonos' API interface. That’s really great news ?
Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
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Ken, Sadly there are many Cable Modems (maybe other types too) that won't support the switch directly, they only provide one IP address. Making it worse at boot time they look for a MAC address and tie the IP to that so changing devices requires forging the MAC or rebooting the modem. With that issue about all you can do is hook an external router to the modem. Most frustrating!

You can get a decent router (just router, no WiFi) from Ubiquity or Netgate (pfSense) that will let you connect your switch to it and provide NAT, DHCP and the rest of the essential networking services. You can also run pfSense on a PC if it has two or more network ports. The pfSense is easier to learn but the Ubiquity stuff is very nice once you master it.
Ken_Griffiths
Stanley_4,

Sorry it’s my 'rather silly' mistake in my post above ... I meant to say to run the switch off the main Google Hub.

I don’t know if you can do this in the US, like you can in the UK.. ?..?

Perhaps if I can try to give an example...

I have an ISP supplied router, that can be switched over to 'modem mode' (so it switches operation and becomes just a modem) ... one WAN IP address is assigned to it by the ISP. In my own particular case it’s a Netgear brand AC mimo router from VirginMedia which has a simple software setting to switch modes.

Then the first Google Hub (which will become the main router) is plugged directly into the (now) modem device using the Hubs WAN port and ANY LAN port on the router (usually it’s the first LAN port)... we do not have to register or spoof the MAC addresses here of the Hub, as we are using the registered Netgear router as the modem, which passes the WAN IP through and onto the Google Hub. I assume the Netgear device is where virginmedia take the MAC address from as its authorisation.

Then an unmanaged switch can then be connected to the Google Hubs other 'LAN port'... we can do this in the UK as there is no MAC address registration or spoofing required. The registered modem is all that is required.

So the local network is then all managed by the main Google Hub, which becomes the DHCP Server, Gateway etc. The WiFi from this Hub then connects to the other hubs and they all broadcast a WiFi signal, albeit that WiFi signal can (apparently) be on different channels emitting from each hub (that’s the problem with these hubs... the channels can differ at each hub, albeit the SSID and password are the same etc.) Well that’s what I have been told and you cannot set a static WiFi channel either on the Google Hubs... hence they cause problems from time to time with sonos profucts.

That’s what I really meant to say... so having corrected my earlier mistake, I’m just curious now, if this is how things work with ISP's in the US?
Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
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Two common options here in the US are a modem/router combination and a plain modem, most of the modem/router combination units can be switched to modem only operation (aka bridge mode) where it operates like the modem only device. In bridge mode, the cable modem/routers I'm familiar with, lock to the MAC of the first seen device the same as the modem only units do. They have to be rebooted to change the connected device or the MACs have to be spoofed to be the same.

There is no need to spoof the MAC address as long as you don't try to change the connected device after the modem is booted. On the few modem/router combination units I've worked with if you switch them to bridge mode only one of the LAN ports can be used as there is only one IP available to the bridge. With multiple devices attached which one gets the IP is a speed contest and no telling which device will win.

If you disable the internal router or use a plain modem version then hooking to a router is all that is needed, the modem connection provides DHCP service that allows the router to pick up the needed addresses for operation.

Something that bites a lot of folks is that some of the modems also offer an internal DHCP service when off-line so that you can connect to the modem and see the internal pages. If your router has accepted the internal DHCP addressing data it will need to have the WAN interface recycled to pick up the ISP provided DHCP data once the link comes up.

With your correction what you are seeing seems very similar to what I see here and the setup makes sense.

I don't think I'd try to operate a mesh system and run my Sonos in standard (WiFi only) mode, Boost would be a lot less frustrating.

What really hurts on the auto-changing channel is that if you pick the quietest channel for your SonosNet Boost setup the silly router is likely to look at it when you aren't playing music and move to it causing issues when you next try to play music.

I looked at several of the new mesh setups and decided they were not going to play well with my Sonos and instead went with Ubiquity WiFi gear and a pfSense router hooked to a plain cable modem that gives me much more control of my system. So far all is working quite well and the learning curve was easy.
Ken_Griffiths

I don't think I'd try to operate a mesh system and run my Sonos in standard (WiFi only) mode, Boost would be a lot less frustrating.

What really hurts on the auto-changing channel is that if you pick the quietest channel for your SonosNet Boost setup the silly router is likely to look at it when you aren't playing music and move to it causing issues when you next try to play music.

I looked at several of the new mesh setups and decided they were not going to play well with my Sonos and instead went with Ubiquity WiFi gear and a pfSense router hooked to a plain cable modem that gives me much more control of my system. So far all is working quite well and the learning curve was easy.
Firstly, thanks for all the info. It seems things are quite similar between the US and UK ISP’s and I totally agree too that if I had a mesh system I would run my Sonos devices in Boost Mode, but I’ve always preferred the exclusivity of SonosNet in any case. Albeit I run most things about the house on the 5ghz band anyway, wherever possible.

I don’t currently have problems as I’ve managed to setup clear fixed channels for WiFi and SonosNet as my neighbours all seem to favour channel 6 or thereabouts for some reason and so I use 1 and 11 and stay well clear.

I don’t think I will be switching to a mesh system either anytime soon .

Anyhow, thanks again for the info !?
Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
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I got a tip on creating a clear channel from a friend, haven't tried it yet but I may.

Grab a WiFi router that supports multiple SSIDs on 2.4 GHz and load them all to come up on your preferred channel for your SonosNet at the highest available power settings. It doesn't even need a network connection once set up.

The new router won't impact Sonos much as no data will be moved using them, just the background WiFi chatter but I'm told many auto-seeking routers will look for another channel anyway.
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