Need possibility of adding delay in addition to the normal 70ms

  • 25 September 2012
  • 167 replies
  • 11815 views

Hi, I'm very excited about Sonos, and recently upgraded AV Receivers to be able to seamlessly switch inputs from CD/DVD/Phono/Sonos while using the Autoplay function in Sonos. Fantastic idea, (and very surprised not everyone's doing this), BUT I find that my system is no longer in sync (the Sonos P3's and P5 are ahead of the sound coming through the Connect via Hifi). I did not have this issue with the lower end Denon 1911, but I do now with the 3313. I can add delay with the 3313, but that doesn't help me since it's the other Sonos modules that are ahead of the Denon. Adding the possibility of adding delay (in addition to the required 70ms for processing) would make my system whole again.

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167 replies

After several months looking at Sonos, Denon and Samsung systems eventually decided on Sonos - so got a play1, bridge and connect to start with - thanks to forums have managed to sort out most of the teething problems but found I couldn't sort out the delay issue. if running music from my "old world" receiver system found Sonos was behind - no prob can add in a delay to my old world wired speakers to make them match the Sonos via the receiver - 70ms sounds best. However when running "new world " Deezer, music, radio from Sonos the wired speakers are now behind, BUT cannot add any delay on the Sonos side.

From reading these posts looks like it's an ongoing issue which Sonos don't appear to be interested in - the whole point of buying the connect is to link old and new world but if it doesn't do what it says on the tin guess I'll take it back and try a Denon link or one of the other systems....

So Sonos any update on this issue since the 'product development ' of 2 years ago?
Same here. Was planning to buy 2 Play 5s, a Connect (for my Audio Analague Primo + 2 B&W stereo speakers), and a Sub, but with this risk of audio delay I will stay away from Sonos. Anyone any idea about 1. Sionos plans on delay options and/or 2. delay with only 2 stereo speakers? 
Dear Sonos Team,
is there any technical issue that this can't be fixed? Even a Statement would be good. With my knowledge (or maybe lack of knowledge) I think for a multiroomsystem a Delay-Sync-Feature absolutely makes sence and it's strange that it can't be implemented within 2 Years. I really like my Sonos System - and I would have already bought more components. But actually it's not worth it. They would be too close to each other - so everybody would hear that annoying echo. Please solve this little issue or at least give a reasonable statement to explain, why it's still not there or impossible to solve. Else It's beeing perseived as Sonos just doesn't care about this feature.

Your answer is highly appreciated! 
Regards Dirk
I'd appreciate an update on this too.  I've just moved my Connect into the living room and am playing the audio through a soundbar.  If I group my Connect with my Play 5 in the kitchen it sounds awful because of the delay introduced by the soundbar.

If I could manually sync them, that would solve the problem.  A delay slider in the software with 10ms increments would work great I think.
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How about switching the receiver in "Bypass" or "Pure" mode to disable the DPS interference that causes the delay?
Seems like we aren't getting any joy on this so I am wondering if there is another way.  In searching for audio delay devices I came across this device:

http://www.felston.com/dd740/index.htm

Ok so it costs money but it does take four inputs so you could buy one along with some long optical cables and hook them all up and set your delays as needed.

Having this functionality from Sonos would clearly be better and cheaper but hey if you just can't stand it anymore then at least this might be a solution.
Yeah ok so the option I put in isn't an option because it would only work from the SONOS:CONNECT between the digital out and the AV Receiver but that isn't where we have the problem.  The problem is with the PLAY devices where there is no way you can get between the signal and the speakers to introduce your own delay.

Does anyone know of a way to delay the audio coming from the SONOS:AMP?

As it doesn't have any outputs the only way would be between the speaker cable and the speakers.

Is they anything that would take speaker cable as the input, introduce a delay and then connect to your speakers?
Wish I had known this before buying a bunch of speakers and connect's for my house.... incredibly irritating and quite arrogant from Sonos to assume that anyone trying to feed a separate amp/dac set up should just stick to their products or put up with this unacceptable lag. 

By the way, it's been mentioned before but going with pure direct or using the analogue stereo inputs will solve the issue - but it does mean you're using the Sonos Connect's processing rather than your fancy powered speaker/amp/receiver's. I put up with with this work-around for my TV area (even though my Pioneer amp has a much better DAC), but now I want to use a Connect with a Devialet Phantom (yes, I know it has functionality that rivals Sonos, but I'm integrating it into a Sonos house), and the delay is dreadful (and the Phantom's DSP cannot be turned off even if I wanted to). 

Seems bizarre to me that Sonos has ignored this issue for so long - a timing adjustment setting under the advanced tab would make a lot of people happy. Those people are the ones that care about audio (let's not use the term 'audiophile' in case it scares Sonos off), and end up buying tons of equipment that tends towards the higher price/quality end of spectrum.

Clearly we are on this forum because we love what Sonos brings to the party (good value-for-money speaker solutions, great interface, great streaming support), so if there's a good technical impediment to why this has not been sorted out I think we all need to hear it, or Sonos will find people peeling off as alternative solutions become better at their schtick, and you'll be left with 'consumers' who buy one or two Play 1s and leave it at that. 

Sorry for the rant, pretty disappointed today!
Any updates on this issue? I would also appreciate this addition to the Sonos System and think, it should not be too hard to implement. Actually, one cannot use the digital output of the Connect together with any other Sonos product, as they will never be in sync....
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+1 for me. Like everyone else, I'm getting the echo-like delay.

In my case, I direct input into the Connect from my main audio amp, which plays the output from my PC through the conventional audio system. My always-on portable automatically turns on the radio during the morning to wake me up, reminds me of stuff, etc. It's the nerve centre and that's not about to change. Sonos wants to be centre of everything, but that just doesn't fit with my needs, and obviously I'm not the only one. The problem with the vision of Sonos being your one-and-only audio source is the same problem as having a combined TV-and-VHS (remember those?): at least one of the bits of the system is going to be sub-par. If Sonos would stick to giving us wireless audio, that would be great. But I have better ways to source my audio.

Like so many tech companies, Sonos has developed a "vision" and is trying to force it onto unwilling users. How unfortunate that they don't just concentrate on giving their paying customers what they want.

If Sonos imagines this is a A/V receiver versus digital future issue, they're dead wrong. There are all sorts of places from which to source digital audio (what about people with home automation systems?), and it makes sense for many to route that audio to a good-quality hi-fi system and have Sonos merely transmit the output to wireless speakers.

LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!
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Just wanted to add my name to the list of folks requesting this feature.  I've got 7 Sonos speakers, and 9 non-Sonos speakers hooked up via a Connect and a Connect:AMP.  My Connect speakers - the ones connected to my fancy AVR - RUIN EVERYTHING by being hopelessly out of sync.  

The only solution so far is using "direct" mode which, of course, means ignoring all of the Connect speakers except for two (L & R stereo)...and then using some of the Connect-AMP speakers in place of the AVR speakers (yep, two speakers right next to each other all over the house, e.g., one for movie surround sound and another right next to it for music surround via Sonos).  

At the very least, if you either won't (or can't) add a delay, you ought to plaster a HUGE warning label on all Connects, so that people will know NOT to buy them if they want to mix them w/ stand-alone Sonos speakers.  (I wonder how many current owners would have skipped this purchase had they known ahead of time...)
It's bad enough the connect costs more than the play 3 -- it doesn't even have any speakers! -- but for it to not work flawlessly with the rest of the sonos speakers in the house, at that price point, is simply unacceptable. Seamless sound between rooms is 90% of why people choose sonos instead of much cheaper bluetooth speakers that sound just as good. If the connect can't be made to sync up with the rest of a house's speakers when run through an expensive sound system, then sonos should stop selling it. Stand by your product, Sonos.
I've left a one-star review for the connect on Amazon, drawing attention to this problem. I encourage others to do the same.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2FF6CG36WOHOS

The fact is that Sonos could fix this issue with a simple software update, but for three years has not cared enough to do so. This is a five-star product, even overpriced, without this problem. Sonos, fix it and I'll amend my review to 5 stars accordingly.
Please add me to the list. I was seriously impressed by the Play speakers that I recommended a friend buy however, as my main system is hifi I can't yet convert the rest of the house to Sonos because of this issue. I want to take the Sonos digital output into my Qute HD DAC which then feeds my traditional Arcam Amp and subsequently my speakers. Obviously I understand there will be a delay with the digital processing and was hoping you could manually adjust the output on the Play satellites to compensate (my Samsung TV and Sky set top box allow these sort of adjustments). Please get to it Sonos and you'll no doubt discover a new market.

Thanks in advance ;o)
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Great idea about leaving 1-Star votes on Amazon.  It may be the only way to get them to fix the issue, or at least respectfully acknowledge it (as opposed to getting us to buy it and then simply blaming AVR processing and suggesting direct stereo mode).  Enough 1 star votes and maybe Sonos starts caring a bit more.

They could always argue, of course, that it's incumbent upon buyers to do their homework, and that if there was no bullet point on the side of the Connect box saying that it plays nice w/ your other Sonos speakers and/or that a delay can be specified, then it's the buyer's fault.  Sorry buyer, your fault, you live w/ it.  

But that sort of defeats Sonos' efforts to market themselves as a company offering hassle free, elegant products that "just work", a la Apple, right?  They know it doesn't play nice w/ their other products, but market it anyway w/ the tacit - but quite wrong - understanding that it will.

I've flat out stopped spontaneously recommending Sonos to friends, or buying Sonos speakers as gifts for people.  And when we do talk about it, while I still endorse them (w/ the caveat of keeping AVR and Sonos speakers separate), I'm no longer the glowing evangel I once was; and that lack of sincere enthusiasm is all it takes to mean my listener is now on the fence and postpones the purchase until after the mood passes (meaning no purchase).
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We have an answer eventually, they can't or won't sort it out. I saw them plugging the Connect on their facebook page, so I posted asking them if they had sorted out the delay yet. Their answer: "Hi Charlie. When setting up a CONNECT with a receiver, the receiver itself does the audio processing. It is because of this alternate processing that you can experience a difference is speed, either faster or slower. Sonos is unable to compensate for this because it is external processor doing the work. Some receivers have 'direct sound' options where it passes through audio without any processing and we've seen that this setting allows it and the other Sonos speakers to be in sync with one another.”
+1
I'm experiencing audio delay on a Yamaha RX-V779 with coax connection. Would really like to see an audio delay option for all other Sonos devices.
I have had Sonos Connect for 2 years, and have used it to stream music to my six klipsch speakers, through a high end Pioneer AV-receiver. For this purpose, Sonos is a fantastic product.

Last saturday I expanded the system with one play 1 in the kitschen, and one in the bathroom. This just killed the hole listening experience, due to the problem of delay, described over the preceding 7 pages.

Had I known this in advance, the play 1 would not have been purchased. There is nothing in the commersials for Sonos, alerting buyers about this "out- of- sync" problem. The result for listening is horrible! I am very disapponted that Sonos keep on with the "perfect sync" commercials. This is a lie as big as the moon, as more and more customers now have an AV-receiver in ther home, and will be confronted with this issue (unless they are deaf).

Lucky me, the shop from where I bought these speakers, have a 30 days "no- question asked" return policy. Anyone like to take a guess what will happen with my two Sonos play 1? And after that I will buy a couple of better speakers , and connect them to different zones in the receiver. Hopefully this will solve the sync problem, but I will have to use cables.
I have solved the delay by using the "pure direct" on my amp, the delay seems to be much reduced, it may still be there, but its good enough to have a party.

However this means i cant use my Amp to both zones in the house, which was knda the point of getting the connect... i may see if optical is faster.

adding a delay to the speaker would seem to be a simple answer, it would be the same delay for all non AMP speakers and only necessary when the connect and non connect speakers are in a single group.
Pure direct solves the problem with delay, because this program do as the name suggest,-lets the music throug without prosessing it. Conesequently the sound qualitet will suffer, as there are only output from the front speakers,not from the center,and the surround speakers.
Having bought my Sonos system just a few months ago, including a connect that plugs into the red and white RCA inputs of my Pioneer Kuros TV, which is equipped with excellent loudspeakers, I soon became aware of a slight delay when adding the TV speakers - the only stereo component - to the rest of the apartment. Now I see that this forum has been complaining about the issue for years - at least 3. Is Sonos saying it is technically impossible to add a delay adjustment to the installation? Perhaps, but I have not seen a clear statement on their part.

I don't want to mix issues, but I notice another big area of complaints - the inadequacy of the implementation of spotify. There also the complaints have been around for years, and nothing happens, and again no explanation from Sonos.

Is this a policy, a policy of no change and no explanation? I find it repulsive.
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I'm not sure the technical reason for not adding delay ability to other speakers. The Playbar is the only one with any kind of delay adjustment. But yes your TV speakers obviously add a lot of delay (typical for a TV) and aren't going to be in sync with stand alone Sonos speakers.

They recently added a lot of the requested Spotify integration. For full integration of course Spotify has to add Sonos Casting (which they won't) or Sonos needs to add Google Chromecast Audio to its ability (which we are hoping for).

Of course you have a Connect so you can get a cheap $30 chromecast dongle and cast all you want from the Spotify app directly.
Thank you Chris. How do you plug a chromecast audio dongle into the Sonos Connect? Or otherwise how to you get to broadcast the Spotify app on all speakers using the dongle? Perhaps by using an RCA to stereo cable adapter? I have searching the Internet since reading your post (from which I learned about the dongle), and it seems all it has is a stereo cable input which does not match anything on the Connect.
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sure just get cable like this to plug the Chromecast Audio into the input on the Connect

http://www.amazon.com/PcConnectTM-Stereo-Y-Cable-3-5mm-Female/dp/B009Q88W0W/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1460990905&sr=1-2&keywords=stereo+to+2+rca

or just get one of these from the chromecast to the Connect (be surprised if you don't already have one of these lying around the house http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1460991116&sr=1-1&keywords=3.5mm+to+rca


Then you can set the input to autoplay to a certain speaker on your system or you can manually just chose Line In - Chromecast as what a speaker or group is playing. It can play just like any other Sonos music source.

In the Spotify app you will have a Chromecast button to send music to Chromecast (and thus Sonos).
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of course here is the chromecast audio dongle you need https://www.google.com/chromecast/audio/explore/