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Understanding the current situation with SMB

  • September 22, 2024
  • 13 replies
  • 1374 views
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  • GMR
  • Trending Lyricist I
  • 15 replies

Hi All

I am looking for clarification of the current situation with the Sonos controllers, both windows 10 desktop software and the mobile phone App with respect to the SMB (SAMBA) control/management of my music library.

I will provide background of my situation pre the upgrade of the desktop controller and the upgrade of the app to Version 80.x.x.x for clarity.

I have been using the following method/technique to listen to my music library for the last 6 or so years without any issues whatsoever. May 2024 came around and my ability to listen to my music library disappeared in an instant…just like so many others.

  1. My music is on a USB pendrive attached to my routers USB port. My music would be available 24Hrs a day as the router never switches off.
  2. My router software allows me to “see the USB drive”
  3. Windows 10 file explorer can also “see the USB drive”
  4. I can add/delete the music on the USB at will from my desktop using file explorer.
  5. Sonos desktop allowed me to manage the library
  6. Sonos desktop allowed me to alter the queue, pick artists, tracks etc etc.
  7. Sonos app did exactly the same, but I prefer to use the desktop.

So, all in all a great system. May 24 has thrown all that ability in the bin….nothing works anymore.

So down to my question(s):-

  1. I assume/understand my Sonos system no longer works due to SMB V1 on my router not being supported anymore?
  2. Sonos do not intend making SMB V1 functional again?
  3. If I can find a suitable router with SMB V2 all would work again?
  4. I have downloaded the old app software version from APK pure. Once installed the Sonos system demands that it be updated. Is this normal or can I block it somehow?

Thanks for now, depending if I get any answers to these questions, I will then be back to understand a suitable way forward.

Best answer by Airgetlam

  1. SMB is not normally available on routers, more often this is a function reserved for an NAS, which has a need for that communication channel. There are some routers that do have the capability to use an SMB connection, using their built in CPU to allow connection, for instance, to a USB drive. They’re few and far between, it isn’t a ‘common’ feature. As far as I’m aware, there is likely a setting on the router to update the version of SMB in use, though. Check the software page on your router, and contact their CS to see if there is a setting you’re missing. 
     
  2. Sonos will not be offering SMB v1 on their S2 products. It is a proven ‘bad’ implementation, leaving a large security hole. They won’t be updating S1 however, as there isn’t enough space on the Linux kernel running on S1 devices to do so.
  3. Yes. Although I’d be looking for an NAS or router that supports SMB v3, not v2.
  4. Given that there is zero confirmation that a download from any non-Sonos or non-Google isn’t infested with some sort of Trojan, I can’t comment, other than certain versions of firmware (the software that runs on the Linux kernel on the speakers) won’t work with older versions of the controller, and I don’t recall seeing any posts about how to downgrade firmware installations, only controllers. 
     
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13 replies

Airgetlam
  • Airgetlam
  • 44721 replies
  • Answer
  • September 22, 2024
  1. SMB is not normally available on routers, more often this is a function reserved for an NAS, which has a need for that communication channel. There are some routers that do have the capability to use an SMB connection, using their built in CPU to allow connection, for instance, to a USB drive. They’re few and far between, it isn’t a ‘common’ feature. As far as I’m aware, there is likely a setting on the router to update the version of SMB in use, though. Check the software page on your router, and contact their CS to see if there is a setting you’re missing. 
     
  2. Sonos will not be offering SMB v1 on their S2 products. It is a proven ‘bad’ implementation, leaving a large security hole. They won’t be updating S1 however, as there isn’t enough space on the Linux kernel running on S1 devices to do so.
  3. Yes. Although I’d be looking for an NAS or router that supports SMB v3, not v2.
  4. Given that there is zero confirmation that a download from any non-Sonos or non-Google isn’t infested with some sort of Trojan, I can’t comment, other than certain versions of firmware (the software that runs on the Linux kernel on the speakers) won’t work with older versions of the controller, and I don’t recall seeing any posts about how to downgrade firmware installations, only controllers. 
     
Bruce
Airgetlam
  • Airgetlam
  • 44721 replies
  • September 22, 2024

Just as a comment, windows doesn’t use SMB to contact/see the drive. But then windows isn’t a Linux thing like the software that runs on the Sonos speakers. 

Bruce
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  • edmountain
  • Prodigy I
  • 139 replies
  • September 22, 2024

Just as a comment, windows doesn’t use SMB to contact/see the drive. But then windows isn’t a Linux thing like the software that runs on the Sonos speakers. 

@Airgetlam Are you sure about that?

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  • GMR
  • Author
  • Trending Lyricist I
  • 15 replies
  • September 22, 2024

@Airgetlam @edmountain 

I should have stated that I am in the UK with respect to the router allowing SMB 1.0

MoPac
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  • MoPac
  • Headliner II
  • 1110 replies
  • September 22, 2024

Yes. Although I’d be looking for an NAS or router that supports SMB v3, not v2 

 Why not v2?

Airgetlam
  • Airgetlam
  • 44721 replies
  • September 22, 2024

@edmountain 98% sure, yes. It’s a Windows access thing, and doesn’t go through the same connection path that the Sonos does. Which is why the OP is experiencing what they are. Two separate methods of data access. 
 

@MoPac , future proofing. I’m not even certain you could find a v2 system these days, except as backwards compliant. SMB v3 supplanted SMB v2 back in 2012 (see here). If you’re at all aware of security (not that it’s essential for music, but defines access to the rest of the data potentially stored on the device), you’d want to use SMB v3.x. And at some point, if Sonos abandons SMB v2, you wouldn’t need to worry. 

Bruce
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  • edmountain
  • Prodigy I
  • 139 replies
  • September 22, 2024

@edmountain 98% sure, yes. It’s a Windows access thing, and doesn’t go through the same connection path that the Sonos does. Which is why the OP is experiencing what they are. Two separate methods of data access. 

SMB is the protocol used by Windows for file sharing though.

ratty
  • ratty
  • 31405 replies
  • September 22, 2024

Windows uses SMB to access network shares, as does Sonos. Win10 may still be allowing SMBv1 to work, though I thought MS sent out an update to disable it by default. It can obviously still be re-enabled if required. 

Many routers offer USB file sharing, though most are still limited to SMBv1, especially ISP-supplied ones. 

A router which supports SMBv2 or above should work with Sonos. Depending on the current router it may be re-flashable with third party firmware that supports SMBv2.

MoPac
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  • MoPac
  • Headliner II
  • 1110 replies
  • September 22, 2024

@edmountain 98% sure, yes. It’s a Windows access thing, and doesn’t go through the same connection path that the Sonos does. Which is why the OP is experiencing what they are. Two separate methods of data access. 
 

@MoPac , future proofing. I’m not even certain you could find a v2 system these days, except as backwards compliant. SMB v3 supplanted SMB v2 back in 2012 (see here). If you’re at all aware of security (not that it’s essential for music, but defines access to the rest of the data potentially stored on the device), you’d want to use SMB v3.x. And at some point, if Sonos abandons SMB v2, you wouldn’t need to worry. 

 I’ll have to use Powershell on my Windows 10 PC to see if SMB3 is active.

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  • GMR
  • Author
  • Trending Lyricist I
  • 15 replies
  • September 22, 2024

@ratty

As previously stated I am in the UK with an ISP supplied Router.

The router is a BT Smart Hub 2 for anybody with knowledge on this particular piece of equipment.

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  • GMR
  • Author
  • Trending Lyricist I
  • 15 replies
  • September 26, 2024

@ratty @edmountain @Airgetlam  @MoPac 

Many thanks for your replies. I have a better understanding now. Could I just ask for clarity on the following point:-

  1. I believe that SMB is still present and working on my system…So, is it fair to say that it is Sonos that now refuses to interact with my system to see/play the music library as it now chooses to ignore the content (music library info) supplied by/via SMB.

Many thanks

 

J
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  • jreddaway
  • Renowned Enthusiast I
  • 119 replies
  • September 26, 2024

@GMR

Does this help?

https://community.bt.com/t5/Home-setup-Wi-Fi-network/Smart-Hub-2-amp-USB-Connection-via-Linux/td-p/2233422

It would appear that this router is definitely configured for SMBv1 only.  Your (current) version of The Sonos app will NOT permit you to connect to your Library without a higher SMB version in place. 

ratty
  • ratty
  • 31405 replies
  • September 26, 2024

is it fair to say that it is Sonos that now refuses to interact with my system to see/play the music library as it now chooses to ignore the content (music library info) supplied by/via SMB.

It’s the SMB version which is the issue. Smart Hubs only support the old SMB version 1. This version has long been deprecated due to being insecure, and Sonos recently opted to withdraw support for it. Sonos S2 now only supports SMB versions 2 and 3. 

https://support.sonos.com/en-gb/article/use-a-nas-drive-with-sonos

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