A few straightforward facts:

!. Sonos are not idiots

2. They know some people would like a universal Windows app

3. Only possible conclusion from 1 and 2 is that for whatever reason(s), strategic, technical or other, they haven't felt it was right for their business. Which is their prerogative.

4. If people don't like it they can keep their wallets in their pockets.

5. As others have implied, notably @jgatie and @Stuart_W, Sonos never pre-announce, or even hint, and anyone who thinks they have done so on this issue is kidding themselves

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With respect I think you are being deliberately obtuse if you cannot have an appreciation, at least to some degree, to the points I am making.

Actually, no. jgatie is telling it like it is.



Oh come now if you must see those comments and actions from Sonos staff are misleading and why anyone who has been following this for a while would be upset at the way this thread (and previous thread) have been handled by Sonos.



The fact that they have not explicitly stated they are working on an app is irrelevant as the intimation that they are is so strong that if people are getting upset then that is entirely the fault of the Sonos employees who wrote those posts, the blind assentation that they have never explicitly confirmed it Is ridiculous and yes, obtuse. If they had stuck to their guns and kept to a consistent policy perhaps this thread wouldn't be quite so accusatory. Fact is Sonos have rejected ideas and proposals before (see DTS etc) and the fact that this one has been rumbling on so long without a definitive answer while dangling tempting possibilities in our faces hints at either duplicitousness or cowardice. I think most of us have accepted this will not happen, what we really want is to hear Sonos say so, then we can stop wasting our time.

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Yeah, because this and other Windows app threads were never "accusatory" before those posts?



And the outright rejection of DTS on the Playbar, or any other contentious idea, has resulted in people giving up, accepting the idea isn't coming, and stop wasting their time?



Pardon me while I laugh! Bwahahahahaha!

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Look mate I have no real interest in getting into another set-to with you, you'll just bail as soon as I demolish your argument anyway. However in regards to the DTS thread I have to admit I haven't been following it, doesn't apply to me so why would I? Perhaps there's a lesson there for you, bet your oar has been in that mire a few times.



Simply put though the precedent has been set so all these statements that Sonos NEVER confirm or deny are clearly false because they have done so. As with many things the rules are not important, it is that they are applied equally.



The continued ire on this thread if Sonos confirm they are not working on an app is not my problem. All I can say is that I, and I'm sure many others, would stop wasting time on it and after the outrageous amount of people's time these people have wasted now is time!

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Look mate I have no real interest in getting into another set-to with you, you'll just bail as soon as I demolish your argument anyway. However in regards to the DTS thread I have to admit I haven't been following it, doesn't apply to me so why would I? Perhaps there's a lesson there for you, bet your oar has been in that mire a few times.



Simply put though the precedent has been set so all these statements that Sonos NEVER confirm or deny are clearly false because they have done so. As with many things the rules are not important, it is that they are applied equally.



The continued ire on this thread if Sonos confirm they are not working on an app is not my problem. All I can say is that I, and I'm sure many others, would stop wasting time on it and after the outrageous amount of people's time these people have wasted now is time!



I never said Sonos does not confirm or deny. They have stated numerous things will not be done: Hires audio, DTS on the Playbar, Sub bonded with a Connect, Connect as surrounds, native Spotify Connect, etc. So I don't know where you got the idea that I or anyone else ever said "Sonos does not confirm or deny." I and others simply stated they never talk about current or future projects until they go to public beta (Apple Music being the exception, because it was preannounced by Apple, not Sonos).



But feel free to post more things that I and others never said. Strawmen are my specialty!

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Look mate I have no real interest in getting into another set-to with you, you'll just bail as soon as I demolish your argument anyway. However in regards to the DTS thread I have to admit I haven't been following it, doesn't apply to me so why would I? Perhaps there's a lesson there for you, bet your oar has been in that mire a few times.



Simply put though the precedent has been set so all these statements that Sonos NEVER confirm or deny are clearly false because they have done so. As with many things the rules are not important, it is that they are applied equally.



The continued ire on this thread if Sonos confirm they are not working on an app is not my problem. All I can say is that I, and I'm sure many others, would stop wasting time on it and after the outrageous amount of people's time these people have wasted now is time!



I never said Sonos does not confirm or deny. They have stated numerous things will not be done: Hires audio, DTS on the Playbar, Sub bonded with a Connect, Connect as surrounds, native Spotify Connect, etc. So I don't know where you got the idea that I or anyone else ever said "Sonos does not confirm or deny." I and others simply stated they never talk about current or future projects until they go to public beta (Apple Music being the exception, because it was preannounced by Apple, not Sonos).



But feel free to post more things that I and others never said. Strawmen are my specialty!



That actually had me in stitches. Straw men are your specialty? What did you write a guide on how to be one? Your tactics basically revolve around refuting questions no-one has asked and I'm still waiting on the links to the Windows community "call to arms" and evidence that the Phish Alpha app was produced by Microsoft both arguments you have advanced and abandoned.



To be fair to you you may never have said Sonos never confirm or deny but I'm sure you have said words to that effect, unfortunately I know that your mind doesn't do subtlety so the phrasing must be identical in order to make a connection. I was actually reacting to a comment by John B "5. As others have implied, notably @jgatie and @Stuart_W, Sonos never pre-announce, or even hint, and anyone who thinks they have done so on this issue is kidding themselves."



I still find the accusation of being a straw man funny, go back and look at past exchanges, I have met every argument you put forward absolutely head-on. If anyone has been guilty of flip-flopping, changing the argument or simply disengaging to avoid defeat it is not me.

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So you equate "Sonos never preannounce" as equal to "Sonos never denies it is going to work on something"? Well, no wonder you think "the direction we're headed in is a good one" and a general survey of Windows users is official confirmation of them working on an app! As to your other statements, there was a poster on this very forum who stated he came here due to a posting on an enthusiasts site and gave a link to the posting. No need for me to "prove" anything when your fellow posters do it for me. And my statement about the Phish app was pure speculation, based on what others stated at the time. If I was wrong, mea culpa.

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So you equate "Sonos never preannounce" as equal to "Sonos never denies it is going to work on something"? Well, no wonder you think "the direction we're headed in is a good one" and a general survey of Windows users is official confirmation of them working on an app!



Don't be ridiculous. Everyone knows this is not official confirmation.



What it is, is frankly terrible customer communications. Sonos only have themselves to blame for this situation. Its time to make a clarification. That's all that's required to put this sorry episode to bed.

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So you equate "Sonos never preannounce" as equal to "Sonos never denies it is going to work on something"? Well, no wonder you think "the direction we're headed in is a good one" and a general survey of Windows users is official confirmation of them working on an app!



Don't be ridiculous. Everyone knows this is not official confirmation.



What it is, is frankly terrible customer communications. Sonos only have themselves to blame for this situation. Its time to make a clarification. That's all that's required to put this sorry episode to bed.



So you want a clarification on their non-official, non-confirmation? Shoot, I can give you that! 😃

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There is a need to prove your argument if you want it to be accepted, I am not going to find a link in order to prove you correct. If you find it I will admit you were right, but it's your responsibility to prove your argument, not mine. I am glad you at least partially accept you were wrong about the Phish app, it was certainly not phrased as speculation however.



The wording around preannounce/deny is frankly unimportant when taken together with the length of time this has been going on. The main point is that Sonos should stop stringing people along. They have kept this up for too long, it is indefensible at this point four YEARS after the initial request/idea to not have a policy or answer. That isn't a policy of not preannouncing, at this kind of timescale it is something more sinister or inept. Would you trust any person or corporate body that was this evasive for this long about an issue that was important to you? Fact remains I think Sonos should grow a pair and say "No app for Windows."

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So you equate "Sonos never preannounce" as equal to "Sonos never denies it is going to work on something"? Well, no wonder you think "the direction we're headed in is a good one" and a general survey of Windows users is official confirmation of them working on an app!



Don't be ridiculous. Everyone knows this is not official confirmation.



What it is, is frankly terrible customer communications. Sonos only have themselves to blame for this situation. Its time to make a clarification. That's all that's required to put this sorry episode to bed.



So you want a clarification on their non-official, non-confirmation? Shoot, I can give you that! :D



But it WAS official Sonos communication, Even if it was just a massive hint rather than a confirmation.

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But it WAS official Sonos communication, Even if it was just a massive hint rather than a confirmation.



Look, this thread is somewhat toxic, so I'll try to take it back a notch. I know you and others are wishing and hoping for the best, so some actions by Sonos can seem "massive", as it fits in with those wishes and hopes. Let me give you my interpretation and see if the logic fits:



1) "(T)he direction we're headed in is a good one" could mean any of a dozen things, from the idea being sent up the line for approval, all the way to an official commitment and imminent launch. Reading too much into that statement is a recipe for disappointment.



2) No company ever does a usage survey after they commit to a project. It is always a preliminary.



3) Sonos chooses their Alpha/Closed Beta testers; this and the old forums being one of the main sources. If Sonos were currently at the Alpha/Beta stage of development of a Windows app, do you not think they would attempt to recruit the 2 or 3 most vocal supporters of the Windows app as testers? In addition, would they not utilize the aforementioned usage survey (which I assumed you filled out) as yet another source? Read into this what you may.

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There is a need to prove your argument if you want it to be accepted, I am not going to find a link in order to prove you correct. If you find it I will admit you were right, but it's your responsibility to prove your argument, not mine. I am glad you at least partially accept you were wrong about the Phish app, it was certainly not phrased as speculation however.







If the search function on this forum were anything more than less than useless, I would provide the link. But the search literally gives me everything but my post, which given the accuracy of the search, means my post is definitely buried in here someplace. Until they improve the search (something I am as equally vocal, if not equally repetitive, about as you are with Windows), you will have to trust me on this one.



And anything I do not couch with an official link/statement is speculation. I thought that goes without saying.

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We absolutely understand the frustration at not having a clear yes or no for the future of a Windows 10 universal platform Sonos controller. At this time, we do not have any additional information to share or any plans to announce around developing one for the future. If there's any change in the status for this request, we will keep this group informed.



We are constantly looking to improve Sonos and offer the best experience possible. We also appreciate your ongoing feedback on this topic. While there are exciting things planned ahead, we simply don’t comment on specifics around unreleased products or our development roadmap.



There's been a lot of activity in this thread lately and I'd like to take the opportunity to remind everyone to stay friendly. Let's keep this a safe place for everyone to be welcome to share and have a voice.

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At this time, we do not have any additional information to share or any plans to announce around developing one for the future.

Whatever way this is meant, it doesn't sound very encouraging.

So, it's down to us maybe? A Kickstarter to develop a good Sonos-UWP-App which can be offered for free?

• Are there documented APIs or is it down to reverse Engineering?
  
• Would Sonos actually tolerate this or
  
• would they be too afraid to let this happen, thinking that the possibility of having a mediocre App would undermine their commitment to Quality?
  

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At this time, we do not have any additional information to share or any plans to announce around developing one for the future.

Whatever way this is meant, it doesn't sound very encouraging.

So, it's down to us maybe? A Kickstarter to develop a good Sonos-UWP-App which can be offered for free?

• Are there documented APIs or is it down to reverse Engineering?
  
• Would Sonos actually tolerate this or
  
• would they be too afraid to let this happen, thinking that the possibility of having a mediocre App would undermine their commitment to Quality?
  

Sonos has never discouraged third party apps, and there is already at least one out there for Windows mobile.

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If the search function on this forum were anything more than less than useless, I would provide the link. But the search literally gives me everything but my post, which given the accuracy of the search, means my post is definitely buried in here someplace. Until they improve the search (something I am as equally vocal, if not equally repetitive, about as you are with Windows), you will have to trust me on this one.



And anything I do not couch with an official link/statement is speculation. I thought that goes without saying.



Found it. Here's a story on one such activist. There's even a poll on whether it should be done.





http://mspoweruser.com/poll-should-we-harangue-companies-into-giving-us-windows-phone-apps/





I find this quote quite telling:

Also to be be effective not just one, but many Windows Phone users should be voicing their opinion.

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Meanwhile, Android tablets with full touchscreen support for the Sonos app are so inexpensive it's not really a stretch to dedicate one or a few exclusively to the Sonos app...

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If the search function on this forum were anything more than less than useless, I would provide the link. But the search literally gives me everything but my post, which given the accuracy of the search, means my post is definitely buried in here someplace. Until they improve the search (something I am as equally vocal, if not equally repetitive, about as you are with Windows), you will have to trust me on this one.



And anything I do not couch with an official link/statement is speculation. I thought that goes without saying.



Found it. Here's a story on one such activist. There's even a poll on whether it should be done.





http://mspoweruser.com/poll-should-we-harangue-companies-into-giving-us-windows-phone-apps/





I find this quote quite telling:

Also to be be effective not just one, but many Windows Phone users should be voicing their opinion.

That article does not constitute a "call to arms" in any way. Yes Sonos was used as an example but the subject tackled was the broader issue of how to make companies respond to the request for apps. The inspiration for the article was a user repeatedly spamming Sonos' Facebook page with practically identical posts, in my opinion that is not a constructive tactic. The article contains no links to this thread or any mention the Sonos Community at all, there is no direct encouragement for people to come here and post, a few may have been inspired to do a bit of research and arrive here independently, not many I imagine however. To question the validity of this entire thread based on one article on a niche enthusiast website that was talking about a completely different feedback channel with no mention of this site at all is a huge leap and one I still don't accept. I still believe the vast majority of people who have posted over the years are legitimate Sonos owners or potential owners being held back by the lack of an app.



The quote you supplied does appear to be bad but has been taken completely out of context, when you read the full quote;

On one hand I can see the benefit of reminding a company they are not being inclusive, particularly when they want to present a public face of being so, but on the other hand such tactics can turn companies and their fans hostile against the OS. Also to be be effective not just one, but many Windows Phone users should be voicing their opinion.

you can appreciate that the author is simply asking what the most effective method of communicating a desire for native apps is. I happen to agree with the poll that demands should be made loudly, publicly and often. That is not the same as spamming forums and Facebook with identical and repeated demands it simply reinforces that the demand is still there.



The article may provide a little justification for your argument but not much, and lets be honest if there is a Windows conspiracy movement it's highest priority will not be Sonos who's products are luxury items that the vast majority of Windows Phone users, or users of any platform, will not possess. There are bigger fish to fry as far as missing apps are concerned.

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Meanwhile, Android tablets with full touchscreen support for the Sonos app are so inexpensive it's not really a stretch to dedicate one or a few exclusively to the Sonos app...



I have an iPad mini so I do have access to an official app running machine. The problem with having a multi-zone system with only one controller is obvious though. While a phone stays with me, even around the home, a small tablet does not. When you have five zones there is always the problem of remembering where your dedicated tablet actually is. Not a problem with a phone. It is also my girlfriend's iPad so she, rather selfishly, likes to take it with here on occasion. There are numerous ways around the problem of no official support but all require some compromise, the unofficial apps are either expensive (Phonos) or lacking in usability and speed (Chirp), and while I like Chirp's design it does need some improvement. Your Android tablet solution would realistically require me to by a tablet for each zone, while they may be individually cheap it suddenly becomes rather expensive when five or more are required.

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The poll was 85%, with well over 1000 of the readers agreeing that Windows users "should make our demands in public, loudly and regularly". The story specifically mentions Sonos, and the writer states that those who vote to "harangue" companies should do so in a "possibly organised manner". May not be enough for you, but I've seen this before. One and done posters (or just votes with no posts) in a thread, and a vote count that belies the actual market percentage. And here is a website that polls on the efficacy of such tactics, and specifically mentions Sonos. Believe what you want, but I'll not be curtailing my suspicions one iota.



And besides, if you think thread participation, fraudulent or not, influences Sonos towards a Windows app instead of actual market share, I've got a bridge to sell you. So arguing whether these are actual Sonos users or simply Windows enthusiasts doing their part for the cause is a moot point. The market is the market.

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The market is the market.

And, at the risk of repeating it yet again, the MS CEO himself has said that the Windows Phone/Mobile market share is "unsustainable". At 1.7% Sonos is hardly losing out on a significant percentage of potential customers.



I have sympathy for those stuck with Windows phones. I know several people forced to use them for work purposes. They hate it and have iOS/Android phones for personal use.

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I have sympathy for those stuck with Windows phones. I know several people forced to use them for work purposes. They hate it and have iOS/Android phones for personal use.



I'm a little perplexed by this negativity. If you and your friends prefer a different platform, great. Clearly, however, there are other Sonos customers who prefer Windows on their smartphones and who would like an official Sonos app. This seems an entirely reasonable wish and, with the arrival of Windows 10 and universal apps, would also be a logical evolutionary path for the current Windows desktop controller.

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a logical evolutionary path for the current Windows desktop controller.

How so? MS' end of extended support for Win8.x is not until 10 January 2023. That means the WIn32 controller version requires at least 7 years of Sonos support and development.

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I prefer my Windows 10 phone over Android and would like to see a universal win 10 app...

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