Please provide Trueplay support for Samsung phones, otherwise your company is missing out another 50% potential customers (or existing customers).
https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/vendor
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Too many variables on Android to do it apparently. Wouldn't hold your breath.
Dear Silverthorn,
If hardware is cited as the reason I do not think it is valid. Base on IDC report market share of Samsung hovers solidly at about 20% vs Apple about 15% to 20% in year 2017. Base on unit of phone sold, Samsung outpaced Apple.
Please note I am referring to a single vendor Samsung here. If Apple product consistency was cited on the ground on a single vendor, there is no reason it cannot apply to Samsung.
In fact it should apply to Samsung more than Apple. Samsung sold 317.7 million units vs Apple 215.8 million units in year 2017.
regards,
If hardware is cited as the reason I do not think it is valid. Base on IDC report market share of Samsung hovers solidly at about 20% vs Apple about 15% to 20% in year 2017. Base on unit of phone sold, Samsung outpaced Apple.
Please note I am referring to a single vendor Samsung here. If Apple product consistency was cited on the ground on a single vendor, there is no reason it cannot apply to Samsung.
In fact it should apply to Samsung more than Apple. Samsung sold 317.7 million units vs Apple 215.8 million units in year 2017.
regards,
If hardware is cited as the reason I do not think it is valid. Base on IDC report market share of Samsung hovers solidly at about 20% vs Apple about 15% to 20% in year 2017. Base on unit of phone sold, Samsung outpaced Apple.
Please note I am referring to a single vendor Samsung here. If Apple product consistency was cited on the ground on a single vendor, there is no reason it cannot apply to Samsung.
In fact it should apply to Samsung more than Apple. Samsung sold 317.7 million units vs Apple 215.8 million units in year 2017.
regards,
It has nothing to do with market share, but the variability of the microphones fitted in Android kit. AIUI Apple just use a few different types, so Sonos can program for them. Android phones use many different types, so it's less feasible.
Having said that, I don't see why (if they really wanted to) they couldn't sell a cheap plug in mike and program for that. Probably too busy with other things....
If hardware is cited as the reason I do not think it is valid. Base on IDC report market share of Samsung hovers solidly at about 20% vs Apple about 15% to 20% in year 2017. Base on unit of phone sold, Samsung outpaced Apple.
Please note I am referring to a single vendor Samsung here. If Apple product consistency was cited on the ground on a single vendor, there is no reason it cannot apply to Samsung.
In fact it should apply to Samsung more than Apple. Samsung sold 317.7 million units vs Apple 215.8 million units in year 2017.
regards,
I'd be doubtful that you could be sure any particular Samsung phone had the same microphone from batch to batch let alone all the possible Android phone makes and models.
I'd be interested to know how often Sonos revisit hardware or approach manufacturers to see if their hardware is more steady state.
I can't believe there's 'that' many different microphones fitted to higher end Samsungs.
As frustrating as it is, it's not as though Sonos would wilfully exclude such a large user base from the functionality - but as I say, how often is it reconsidered?
I can't believe there's 'that' many different microphones fitted to higher end Samsungs.
As frustrating as it is, it's not as though Sonos would wilfully exclude such a large user base from the functionality - but as I say, how often is it reconsidered?
If hardware is cited as the reason I do not think it is valid. Base on IDC report market share of Samsung hovers solidly at about 20% vs Apple about 15% to 20% in year 2017. Base on unit of phone sold, Samsung outpaced Apple.
Please note I am referring to a single vendor Samsung here. If Apple product consistency was cited on the ground on a single vendor, there is no reason it cannot apply to Samsung.
In fact it should apply to Samsung more than Apple. Samsung sold 317.7 million units vs Apple 215.8 million units in year 2017.
regards,
It has nothing to do with market share, but the variability of the microphones fitted in Android kit. AIUI Apple just use a few different types, so Sonos can program for them. Android phones use many different types, so it's less feasible.
Having said that, I don't see why (if they really wanted to) they couldn't sell a cheap plug in mike and program for that. Probably too busy with other things....
Again my emphasis is S A M S U N G here being a single vendor not android. Samsung being a single company sells more phone than Apple. Period.
Samsung may uses a few different types of microphones too but Apple certainly do the same. Therefore I cannot see any difference here.
Sonos engineer may have their personal preference on Apple but please bear in mind Samsung simply has a larger user base. Samsung market share would be certainly a valid consideration for any commercial decision I would imagine.
Having Trueplay only on Apple device in my mind is being a dis-service to Samsung user. Samsung users may continue to use Sonos product but certainly not very happy about it.
Sonos may assume its customer able to borrow an Apple device but it I do not think so. With bio-metrics data, communications apps, and even credit card data on mobile phone these days I do not want to loan my Samsung device to anybody. My friendly Sonos dealer here certainly does not have an Apple device to loan its customer.
Being suggestions, as Silverhorn mentioned, Sonos may market a cheap mic or include a cheap mic in new products like the surround sound receiver manufacturers. More plausible, Sonos may use the mic embedded in Sonos One and the upcoming Beam if there is continued hesitation on Samsung.
Might be more to it than just microphones.
Again - so what?
[quote=sd2000Samsung may uses a few different types of microphones too but Apple certainly do the same. Therefore I cannot see any difference here.[/quote]
Neither of us has any idea how many microphones Samsung use, so this is pure speculation.
I agree, which is why I feel that they should sort out a cheap universal add-on mic that could work for most people.
[quote=amun]Again my emphasis is S A M S U N G here being a single vendor not android. Samsung being a single company sells more phone than Apple. Period.
Again - so what?
Neither of us has any idea how many microphones Samsung use, so this is pure speculation.
Sonos may assume its customer able to borrow an Apple device but it I do not think so.
I agree, which is why I feel that they should sort out a cheap universal add-on mic that could work for most people.
As far as I'm concerned it's obvious that Sonos would far prefer for Trueplay to be available to use on whatever portable device the app is running.
It's perfectly valid to be annoyed or frustrated that only iOS devices have Trueplay but it's ridiculous to suggest that it's anything other than technical/variability/quality issues that prevent Sonos enabling Trueplay for other devices.
Again - so what?
Neither of us has any idea how many microphones Samsung use, so this is pure speculation.
I agree, which is why I feel that they should sort out a cheap universal add-on mic that could work for most people.
As far as I'm concerned it's obvious that Sonos would far prefer for Trueplay to be available to use on whatever portable device the app is running.
It's perfectly valid to be annoyed or frustrated that only iOS devices have Trueplay but it's ridiculous to suggest that it's anything other than technical/variability/quality issues that prevent Sonos enabling Trueplay for other devices.
That Trueplay when launched early in 2016 was limited to iPhones was understandable. That this state of affairs continues 30 months down the line speaks of lack of rigour and attention to detail.
Other than just microphones there are many reasons include the lack of will of course....
All handphone components are very specialized leading-edge parts with limited supplier in most case. In the case of the microphone, there is a specialized name for it known as MEMS microphone (microelectronic mechanical systems). Knowles of U.S. is the top supplier to both Apple and Samsung, with a market share of 59%, and AAC Technologies of Hong Kong (13%) and Goertek of China (7%) being 2nd and 3rd repectively.
Top three suppliers already represent 79% of the market share. It is speculative of course but Apple and Samsung are rather likely procuring parts from the top suppliers not fragmented players.
https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/20-20khz/4431541/Top-ten-MEMS-microphone-vendors-ranked
There can be reasons other than the hardware itself of course.
As pointed out, I don't think it's just a matter of hardware. There could be variations in how the firmware utilizes the mics or something of that nature. I also don't know that stats showing the volume of Samsung users vs apple users necessarily shows the volume of Sonos owners with Apple vs Sonos owners with Samsung.
I do think lack of will is a distinct possibility, but I don't mean that in a negative way. It may very well be that maintaining trueplay on iphones is taking more development and maintenance time then originally planned, and Sonos doesn't have the resources dedicated to add more devices. It could also be that they believe adding just Samsung will end up getting other android customers unhappy and feeling left out, more than it will please sumsung customers. I don't know what I don't know. I personally don't like making assumptions regarding what I don't know, as I'm rarely able to do so objectively and usually get it wrong.
All that said, since I use a Galaxy myself, I'd absolutely benefit from trueplay on Samsung. Certainly wouldn't complain about it.
I do think lack of will is a distinct possibility, but I don't mean that in a negative way. It may very well be that maintaining trueplay on iphones is taking more development and maintenance time then originally planned, and Sonos doesn't have the resources dedicated to add more devices. It could also be that they believe adding just Samsung will end up getting other android customers unhappy and feeling left out, more than it will please sumsung customers. I don't know what I don't know. I personally don't like making assumptions regarding what I don't know, as I'm rarely able to do so objectively and usually get it wrong.
All that said, since I use a Galaxy myself, I'd absolutely benefit from trueplay on Samsung. Certainly wouldn't complain about it.
In my mind Sonos need not worry about incompatiblity over android Trueplay, as users are well aware of it.
Incompatibility is an inherited issue (not problem) with open ecosystems such as Windows and Android, yet it does not hinder their popularity. For users with priority over compatibility , they will decide on Intel and Samsung based hardware on their own and do not need guidance.
I also own/previously owned non-Intel and non-Samsung based equipments due to their specific features. They indeed have various compatibility issue, and not a problem to me as compatibility was already known as possible issue from the start. Users may switch to Intel and Samsung based equipments but it will be their own flexibility.
Incompatibility is an inherited issue (not problem) with open ecosystems such as Windows and Android, yet it does not hinder their popularity. For users with priority over compatibility , they will decide on Intel and Samsung based hardware on their own and do not need guidance.
I also own/previously owned non-Intel and non-Samsung based equipments due to their specific features. They indeed have various compatibility issue, and not a problem to me as compatibility was already known as possible issue from the start. Users may switch to Intel and Samsung based equipments but it will be their own flexibility.
As mentioned I think there are other factors at play, not just hardware and software. Even if we assume that there might be a higher cost of developing and maintaining a consitant and equivalent capability for android, it is feasible that sonos have determined that the feature is not commercially important enough (to them) in comparison to other priorities for their roadmap. At least for now. The technical argument is maybe more paltable to communicate to customers.
Samsung may sell more handsets as the stats make clear. In sheer numbers. But I dare say that those figures include their entire range and not only their premium ohones. Apple simply don’t sell lower end phones.
There is also anecdotal evidence that Apple users simply spend more money on services that compliment their phone. It’d be interesting to know if this example (apps) translates to ‘sonos spend’ by Apple vs Samsung users.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/appleinsider.com/articles/18/01/26/apples-ios-app-store-users-spent-115-billion-in-q4-95-more-than-google-play/amp/
Samsung may sell more handsets as the stats make clear. In sheer numbers. But I dare say that those figures include their entire range and not only their premium ohones. Apple simply don’t sell lower end phones.
There is also anecdotal evidence that Apple users simply spend more money on services that compliment their phone. It’d be interesting to know if this example (apps) translates to ‘sonos spend’ by Apple vs Samsung users.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/appleinsider.com/articles/18/01/26/apples-ios-app-store-users-spent-115-billion-in-q4-95-more-than-google-play/amp/
Sonosjunkie,
That’s a lot of money spent in just one quarter of last year eh?
Anyhow, here is what Sonos have to say about this topic in their Trueplay support pages... (quote):
Why doesn’t Trueplay work with Android devices?
“We realize many Sonos users, and music lovers considering Sonos, are happy Android users that want to use their phone or tablet of choice to Trueplay tune their Sonos speakers. Unfortunately due to the wide variety of devices on the Android platform using different software versions, microphones and ways to process audio we could not ensure a consistent and reliable Trueplay tuning experience thus far. It’s absolutely our intent to support Trueplay on Android so know we haven’t lost sight of this gap and are quite unhappy about the lack of Android support.”
Personally, it’s probably easier perhaps for a customer to borrow an iPhone off a friend or relative for 1/4 hour, install the App, and setup trueplay tuning and then forget it. Most of us leave our Sonos speakers in the same place anyway and very little usually changes in a room.
I think I’ve maybe used the feature once or twice in the past 12 to 18 months. Just to get rid of the 'little red dot' that appears next to my untuned room name.
I think Sonos has chosen to prioritise the Alexa/AirPlay/Google stuff first and probably 'Trueplay on Android' has been pushed down the development list ... I wouldn’t blame Sonos for making that decision. If anything, (Google) Android need to get all the manufacturers together and agree certain 'acceptable' standards around some of the hardware incorporated in the Android devices, perhaps?
That said, I can’t remember now, whether or not, I gave my 'ex-best mate' his nice new iPhone 8 back ? 😃
That’s a lot of money spent in just one quarter of last year eh?
Anyhow, here is what Sonos have to say about this topic in their Trueplay support pages... (quote):
Why doesn’t Trueplay work with Android devices?
“We realize many Sonos users, and music lovers considering Sonos, are happy Android users that want to use their phone or tablet of choice to Trueplay tune their Sonos speakers. Unfortunately due to the wide variety of devices on the Android platform using different software versions, microphones and ways to process audio we could not ensure a consistent and reliable Trueplay tuning experience thus far. It’s absolutely our intent to support Trueplay on Android so know we haven’t lost sight of this gap and are quite unhappy about the lack of Android support.”
Personally, it’s probably easier perhaps for a customer to borrow an iPhone off a friend or relative for 1/4 hour, install the App, and setup trueplay tuning and then forget it. Most of us leave our Sonos speakers in the same place anyway and very little usually changes in a room.
I think I’ve maybe used the feature once or twice in the past 12 to 18 months. Just to get rid of the 'little red dot' that appears next to my untuned room name.
I think Sonos has chosen to prioritise the Alexa/AirPlay/Google stuff first and probably 'Trueplay on Android' has been pushed down the development list ... I wouldn’t blame Sonos for making that decision. If anything, (Google) Android need to get all the manufacturers together and agree certain 'acceptable' standards around some of the hardware incorporated in the Android devices, perhaps?
That said, I can’t remember now, whether or not, I gave my 'ex-best mate' his nice new iPhone 8 back ? 😃
Can't believe people are still talking about this subject til this day. I just bought the Sub and Playbar yesterday and didn't know Trueplay existed as I was just looking at options on my Android device. This great feature unfortunately is not available to Android users. Why can't they just include a cheap mic for Android users only and be done with it? REALLY UNACCEPTABLE excuse from Sonos as there were cheaper options available to them! Could have just included a cheap mic and this forum won't be bombarded with trueplay discussions from Android users.
Good thing I have an Ipad mini but sucks if I didn't.
"Buddy, can I borrow your Apple device to set up my $2000+ sound systems?"
"They don't support Android phones"
"What the crap? ". answered..."Yeah"
"Buddy, can I borrow your Apple device to set up my $2000+ sound systems?"
"They don't support Android phones"
"What the crap? ". answered..."Yeah"
Borrow an Apple device and a grandkid along with it, saves a lot of work and keeps the grandkid occupied while you nap.
Pretty sure the speakers with mics will tune themselves to the room at some point, likely next year.
You might be able to do some tuning with a speaker located mike but to get the sound right for your seating position you need the mike there. If you are trying for an overall room balance then you need multiple mike locations or a single mike used at multiple positions where you are trying to achieve balance.
SOON, TRUEPLAY WON’T REQUIRE AWKWARDLY WALKING AROUND A ROOM WITH YOUR IPHONE, AND SONOS SPEAKERS WILL AUTOMATICALLY INSTALL UPDATES
Sonos allows users to tailor the sound produced by its speakers for any room through a process it calls TruePlay. The Sonos app uses the mic on an iOS device to detect the room’s characteristics, and then it adjusts the speaker’s sound for maximum performance. But this requires actually getting up and walking around the room with your iPhone while the Sonos emits beeps and other tones. Sonos did it first, but Apple and Google have since come up with ways of doing this sound optimization automatically with sophisticated analysis and without any user involvement. According to Spence, Sonos is working to offer the same thing. “We’re working on that now, to do it without you needing to do anything,” he said.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/15/17465084/sonos-ceo-vergecast-interview-google-assistant-siri-atmos
Sonos allows users to tailor the sound produced by its speakers for any room through a process it calls TruePlay. The Sonos app uses the mic on an iOS device to detect the room’s characteristics, and then it adjusts the speaker’s sound for maximum performance. But this requires actually getting up and walking around the room with your iPhone while the Sonos emits beeps and other tones. Sonos did it first, but Apple and Google have since come up with ways of doing this sound optimization automatically with sophisticated analysis and without any user involvement. According to Spence, Sonos is working to offer the same thing. “We’re working on that now, to do it without you needing to do anything,” he said.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/15/17465084/sonos-ceo-vergecast-interview-google-assistant-siri-atmos
That will be interesting to see, how it deals with many of the issues of achieving an even sound field without having microphones in the areas of interest.
I use a system similar to TruePlay on a couple receivers, watching the differences from moving the mike a couple feet in any of the six directions, or combinations, is quite interesting. Doing a single point equalization in multiple locations and comparing the settings between them is more frustrating than educational for most folks, me included, as I'm not an audio expert. Two chairs about four feet apart generate wildly different settings, particularly at the lower frequencies.
I use a system similar to TruePlay on a couple receivers, watching the differences from moving the mike a couple feet in any of the six directions, or combinations, is quite interesting. Doing a single point equalization in multiple locations and comparing the settings between them is more frustrating than educational for most folks, me included, as I'm not an audio expert. Two chairs about four feet apart generate wildly different settings, particularly at the lower frequencies.
And I'd predict a rocky release, where people would complain about why some speakers have the capability (because they have the microphones!) and others don't.
But I do indeed like the fact that it levels the playing field for iOS and Android users.
I wonder if it will have the capability of using a single speaker with a microphone to balance others that don't. So, if you had a pair of stereo PLAY:1s in a room with a Beam or Sonos One, you could access the function for all 3 speakers.
But I do indeed like the fact that it levels the playing field for iOS and Android users.
I wonder if it will have the capability of using a single speaker with a microphone to balance others that don't. So, if you had a pair of stereo PLAY:1s in a room with a Beam or Sonos One, you could access the function for all 3 speakers.
As a 10 year iPhone user, I switched to a Google Pixel 3XL this fall and have no plans on returning to iPhone anytime soon. Last year I spent $2,400 on Sonos speakers. Tonight I discovered that I can no longer tune them because I am not using an Apple iPhone??? That is pure disregard for your customers. While I love the sound from my Sonos speakers, they do have a great deal of limitations compared to a much cheaper bluetooth system (i.e. no way to play sound from iOS applications). I was willing to work around those limitations, but this discovery is too large of a pill to swallow. You make a Sonos app for my $1,000 pixel phone, but you're not willing to include tuning capabilities unless I am an iPhone user? If this isn't fixed, or at least acknowledged as an issue that is being addressed in the near future, I'll happily leave your system and move onto something better. I did it with Apple, I can certainly do it with Sonos. 😠
Why do you feel you have to post the same thing over and over on every thread on the subject. You must have read the threads to find answer.
I will spam my reply once more:
They have stated MULTIPLE TIMES that they CAN NOT do Trueplay on Android phones because Android isn't consistent on its microphone vendors. They have tried and tested units multiple times and Android proves to be too difficult to get consistency.
I assume you must have given away your old iPhone - but I would suggest picking up some old one cheap (just turn on wifi no phone service needed) or have a friend with iPhone come do the calibration for you.
I will spam my reply once more:
They have stated MULTIPLE TIMES that they CAN NOT do Trueplay on Android phones because Android isn't consistent on its microphone vendors. They have tried and tested units multiple times and Android proves to be too difficult to get consistency.
I assume you must have given away your old iPhone - but I would suggest picking up some old one cheap (just turn on wifi no phone service needed) or have a friend with iPhone come do the calibration for you.
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