No, the Sonos application is not a music player, it’s a controller. It may seem simply from the outside looking in, but I would guess it’s rather difficult to play audio in sync between Sonos speakers and a computer with all sorts of hardware differences. And if you can’t play in sync as a multiroom system, there isn’t a lot of value in a Sonos player on your PC, since you can play files and streaming services without Sonos.
I imagine there are also licensing issues to consider. Streaming services like Amazon and Spotify would surely prefer you use their own streamer on a PC than Sonos.
The Sonos devices are all just little computers inside… the PC is the big honking CPU with all sorts of drivers and a DAC so the Sonos “controller” software doesn’t have to do much - just like the with the speakers!
The sync can be addressed with something as simple as a “lag” delay software knob.
Please don’t mansplain to me about what my values should be - everyone has their own priorities. Mine include being able to play simultaneously through my Klipsch THX speakers on my PC while being able to walk somewhere else and have the Move playing seamlessly as I cross environments.
Any thoughts from anyone else?
If you could use any computer, like a $50 Raspberry Pi, to create a Sonos device, how many actual Sonos devices do you think Sonos would sell?
So is the alternative you are suggesting for Amazon or someone to just start releasing high quality Echo speakers in various form factors, shut off Sonos integration, and call it a day?
Your $50 Raspberry pi (do they cost that much?) example requires high technical skills and would still require buying speakers and adapters and programming the thing and lord knows what else. Sonos provides quality and design paired with convenience, at a cost of the price - I thought that was the point.
The Sonos devices are all just little computers inside… the PC is the big honking CPU with all sorts of drivers and a DAC so the Sonos “controller” software doesn’t have to do much - just like the with the speakers!
The sync can be addressed with something as simple as a “lag” delay software knob.
Possibly. I don’t know enough about all the processing that goes on to tell if that would work. Regardless, it doesn’t exist.
Please don’t mansplain to me about what my values should be - everyone has their own priorities. Mine include being able to play simultaneously through my Klipsch THX speakers on my PC while being able to walk somewhere else and have the Move playing seamlessly as I cross environments.
That was rather rude. You asked a question, I answered. I said nothing about your personal values and priorities. I clearly prefaced my statement with ‘if you can’t play the computer and Sonos speakers in sync..’. I did not say you shouldn’t want to play in sync. Without the ability to sync you can accomplish playback without Sonos.
You said: “...there isn’t a lot of value in a Sonos player on your PC...” hence my objection that I do value it in this context, or I wouldn’t have taken the time to post here.
What is the deal with these forums? It feels like a cult. Anybody who asks anything that Sonos cannot already do today gets dumped on within mere minutes by individuals clicking refresh all day, as though any feature Sonos cannot already do must be a bad idea for all sorts of speculative reasons, the system is perfect, and we are silly for bothering to ask.
Seriously, for example, who is suggesting that somebody with the skills, the time, and the inclination to be coding up Raspberry Pi’s would be a Sonos customer to even begin with? And why is somebody taking the time to make up a ridiculous strawman example to dump on the original question?
So is the alternative you are suggesting for Amazon or someone to just start releasing high quality Echo speakers in various form factors, shut off Sonos integration, and call it a day?
Your $50 Raspberry pi (do they cost that much?) example requires high technical skills and would still require buying speakers and adapters and programming the thing and lord knows what else. Sonos provides quality and design paired with convenience, at a cost of the price - I thought that was the point.
Why would it require any special skills? You are asking for the Sonos software to mimic a Sonos device on a PC. If it does that, no programming is required.
A little history: Only one Multi-Room music system out of the dozens around had the ability to play from the software on the PC as well as their own hardware. That was Squeezebox. The Squeezebox hardware was taken off the market a long time ago. But the Squeezebox name is still around, because people are still using the SqueezeSoft PC app to create their own Squeezebox devices out of Raspberry Pi computers.
Sonos isn’t that stupid.
Anyway, your request isn’t new, it dates all the way back to the original hardware in 2005. If it hasn’t appeared after 15 years, I highly doubt it’s going to magically appear now. If you really wish to hear Sonos over your PC speakers, you can purchase a Sonos Port.
You said: “...there isn’t a lot of value in a Sonos player on your PC...” hence my objection that I do value it in this context, or I wouldn’t have taken the time to post here.
What is the deal with these forums? It feels like a cult. Anybody who asks anything that Sonos cannot already do today gets dumped on within mere minutes by individuals clicking refresh all day, as though any feature Sonos cannot already do must be a bad idea for all sorts of speculative reasons, the system is perfect, and we are silly for bothering to ask.
Seriously, for example, who is suggesting that somebody with the skills, the time, and the inclination to be coding up Raspberry Pi’s would be a Sonos customer to even begin with? And why is somebody taking the time to make up a ridiculous strawman example to dump on the original question?
It’s not a strawman, it actually happened to Squeezebox.
You said: “...there isn’t a lot of value in a Sonos player on your PC...” hence my objection that I do value it in this context, or I wouldn’t have taken the time to post here.
And again, you leave off the condition to that statement to give the statement proper context.
What is the deal with these forums? It feels like a cult. Anybody who asks anything that Sonos cannot already do today gets dumped on within mere minutes by individuals clicking refresh all day, as though any feature Sonos cannot already do must be a bad idea for all sorts of speculative reasons, the system is perfect, and we are silly for bothering to ask.
My attempt was to answer your question, and then explain why it might not be as simple as you might think. That does not at all mean the system is perfect, or that every suggestion gets shutdown. There are lots of good ideas on here. I honestly don’t think being able to play on PC or phone/tablet is a bad idea, and would use it myself if available. I just don’t think it’s going to happen.
Seriously, for example, who is suggesting that somebody with the skills, the time, and the inclination to be coding up Raspberry Pi’s would be a Sonos customer to even begin with? And why is somebody taking the time to make up a ridiculous strawman example to dump on the original question?
There are several Pi proponents on these forum. And if Sonos had free or cheap PC player software that could play in sync with Sonos speakers, it wouldn’t take much for someone to package a Pi box with the software already installed and ready to sell to those who don’t want to deal with setting it up themselves.
Look team, I’m not up on my annals of Sonos vs. Squeezebox history. I can tell you that I had built my first sound card, a Disney Sound Source (“Covox Speech Thing”) compatible 8-bit DAC out of resistors + a parallel port adapter + a soldering iron, so I’d like to think that I have a little bit of street cred on the topic here.
From the 30 seconds I spent reading up on the Squeezebox, it looks more like that some talented enthusiasts worked to keep the platform alive with raspberry pi’s, when Logitech stopped selling and caring about it. Raspberry pi did not kill off the business! Ay caramba.
So, it looks like the free, open source, Stream What You Hear appears to be the best option, at a loss of fidelity. A shame that Sonos is incapable of just adding a checkbox to play locally -when playing in addition to- their supported hardware.
There are several Pi proponents on these forum. And if Sonos had free or cheap PC player software that could play in sync with Sonos speakers, it wouldn’t take much for someone to package a Pi box with the software already installed and ready to sell to those who don’t want to deal with setting it up themselves.
As was done with Squeezebox.
https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?106782-New-crop-of-Squeezebox-hardware-players
Look team, I’m not up on my annals of Sonos vs. Squeezebox history. I can tell you that I had built my first sound card, a Disney Sound Source (“Covox Speech Thing”) compatible 8-bit DAC out of resistors + a parallel port adapter + a soldering iron, so I’d like to think that I have a little bit of street cred on the topic here.
From the 30 seconds I spent reading up on the Squeezebox, it looks more like that some talented enthusiasts worked to keep the platform alive with raspberry pi’s, when Logitech stopped selling and caring about it. Raspberry pi did not kill off the business! Ay caramba.
So, it looks like the free, open source, Stream What You Hear appears to be the best option, at a loss of fidelity. A shame that Sonos is incapable of just adding a checkbox to play locally -when playing in addition to- their supported hardware.
I followed the Squeeze forum back then. There were people taking the Raspberry Pi route long before Squeezebox tanked. It was a well known secret that some even flaunted in the forum. Squeeze enthusiasts will deny it, because they don’t like to think they were part of the downfall. They all blame Logitech, but they are delusional.
So, it looks like the free, open source, Stream What You Hear appears to be the best option, at a loss of fidelity. A shame that Sonos is incapable of just adding a checkbox to play locally -when playing in addition to- their supported hardware.
Out of curiosity, if Sonos did offer a version of the app that could play as a Sonos speaker, and play local content, would you be willing to pay $50, $75 (per device) or more for it? I’m just guessing that they would want to price it significantly high enough to cover the cost of development and support, and keep it from undercutting the speaker sales too much. Based on what you stated, I would guess that you would. Not sure that I would, but I’d consider it.
For me, I wouldn’t pay extra to just “pass-through” output to the local device…
It does feel like it’s in Sonos’s benefit to offer this. They maintain “big brother” control knowing every artist, every song, every podcast, every whatever that is played through their app. When using “Stream What You Hear,” then the Sonos itself becomes just the dumb passthrough and they lose all that valuable data on what their customers are playing through their Sonos setups.
But then they lose the ‘marketing’ difference of their speakers, I.e. the ability to play in sync in multiple rooms. At that point, they’re just another speaker in an already crowded market?
No, my point is it plays in sync with the Sonos devices, now with the added ability to simply play through the locally attached speakers when the Sonos system is in use
For me, I wouldn’t pay extra to just “pass-through” output to the local device…
It does feel like it’s in Sonos’s benefit to offer this. They maintain “big brother” control knowing every artist, every song, every podcast, every whatever that is played through their app. When using “Stream What You Hear,” then the Sonos itself becomes just the dumb passthrough and they lose all that valuable data on what their customers are playing through their Sonos setups.
Nothing can be “passed through” the controller app. It’s a common misconception that the app is playing the music. It isn’t. The app is just a controller, it tells the Sonos device what to play and where to play it from. The Sonos device then fetches the music and plays it. No music stream ever hits the PC/Mac and/or mobile controller apps. In fact, you can start a stream playing, then turn your PC/Mac or mobile device completely off, toss them out the window, throw them in a fish tank, etc., and the music keeps playing.
That is another reason why you won’t see this function, it would require an entire rewriting of the PC/Mac application. Since the PC/Mac controller has recently been downgraded to secondary status, I don’t think you will see them add this possibly cannibalistic function to an app they have been removing functionality from for the past few years.
As I said, this is not a new request, it goes back 15 years.
I agree that superficially it appears the PC app is treated with secondary status, but disagree that it is that difficult to load up some drivers and simultaneously play/stream locally.
Sure if they want to just sell more Port devices to be $450 rube goldberg contraptions, then sure, but it really does not seem like that is the main point or target audience of the Port device.
I agree that superficially it appears the PC app is treated with secondary status, but disagree that it is that difficult to load up some drivers and simultaneously play/stream locally.
Sure if they want to just sell more Port devices to be $450 rube goldberg contraptions, then sure, but it really does not seem like that is the main point or target audience of the Port device.
As stated, the PC/Mac controller doesn’t play/stream anything. The music stream never goes near the controller. So it’s not a matter of loading up some drivers and streaming locally, because it has no access to the music stream at all. It would have to be completely rewritten as both a controller and a Sonos device to accomplish your request. And that’s not going to happen.
Yes, I get it. Yes, I am asking to add the ability to play or stream locally because it is really not difficult. Of course they have “access” to everything.
Yes, I get it. Yes, I am asking to add the ability to play or stream locally because it is really not difficult. Of course they have “access” to everything.
You have no idea how difficult it is. Sonos sync requires strict timing, and a PC clock is notoriously bad at timing. That’s the first hurdle they need to get over. Never mind configuring for all the different sound card and CPU combinations. All to give away a Sonos device for free?
Not.Going.To.Happen
And once again, this has been requested for 15 years. This isn’t something you are coming here and requesting for the first time. If it were as easy and as beneficial as you claim, don’t you think it would have been done by now?
Oh and by the way, the Squeezesoft application was notorious for playing out of sync due to the above PC clock issue. Didn’t stop users from putting it on a Pi for a cheap Squeezebox substitute, but the synching was still terrible.
How anybody could think Sonos would do this is completely beyond me. The words 'snowball' and 'hell' spring to mind.
What do you think is harder: programming a small, efficient, custom embedded processor for playback, or playback using standard drivers on an off-the-shelf PC cpu? Programming different CPU combinations, what year is this? I’d say just backport it from the speaker, but even that is probably overkill. You missed my point on just giving everyone a simple “delay” knob - voila, now they don’t need to care about timing, let the user care about it.
Are you an employee? If you’re not, I’m not sure how you can speak so emphatically that they will not do it.
I’d love to hear from the source why they have not done it already when their customers have been asking for 15 years.
Hello.
As stated above the answer is no, and Sonos is the very epitome of wysiwyg.
But there is a simple way to do the opposite that I suspect isn’t well known.
With the desktop program (on PC anyway) you get an addition to the ‘right click’ options to stream supported content from a local PC to Sonos devices; your Sonos devices are added to the ‘Cast to devices’ menu. Yes, I know there’s the ‘Music Library’ but this feature can be useful outside of this, but your content must be on the PC and casting can mess up grouped rooms.
A small consolation, perhaps but I’ve found this useful at times.
In its decapitation of the desktop controller I’m amazed Sonos retained this feature, but its retention could be due to SMB or other networking features.
For me, I wouldn’t pay extra to just “pass-through” output to the local device…
It does feel like it’s in Sonos’s benefit to offer this. They maintain “big brother” control knowing every artist, every song, every podcast, every whatever that is played through their app. When using “Stream What You Hear,” then the Sonos itself becomes just the dumb passthrough and they lose all that valuable data on what their customers are playing through their Sonos setups.
Sonos does not limit playback to content they could track. As you’ve mentioned a couple times now, the Port can give you what you’re looking for with it’s aux input, it’s just not at a price you’re willing to pay. The same goes for TV sources for their home theatre products either. Honestly, if Sonos did have a PC player, they could probably get more information about the source of the content based on originating application or something of that nature, where as they could not do that through an analog connection on the Port or other device.
Also, I don’t think it’s accurate to call it a dumb passthrough either. With the Port, this signal comes in s analog, coverted to digital so it can be shared wirelessly, then either converted back to analog or sent digitally to an attached amp. I don’t claim to be an expert on the subject, but there are various opinions on the quality of the Port’s DAC.
