Hi there, I'm not really one to complain because my sonos equipment is the best I've ever brought. But I must say. I've just done the new update and I think it's a load of rubbish! I don't want my playlist clearing when I want to play another, I'd like to clear it myself thank you please! What do others think? Please take this on board, thank you .
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But the affect on the queue was well spelt out and so such a danger you should have been aware of. That users unfamiliar with the system delete things the FIRST time they use it is user learning. Deleting the queue until you get used to the new way was well explained and warned about by Sonos.
Of course you, or anyone, is able to express their dislike of something but I disagree that expressing displeasure that is RTFM failure is not any manufacturers fault. I think that is objective and not subjective. Subjectivity continues to express itself until how to use the changes have been learnt.
I disagree about the communal jukebox as I doubt there are many users who only use their system in a group situation (argh! No headphone socket so i can't charge my phone whilst listening to music). With any change the first casualties always seem to be relevancy and context.
So there is nothing that can't be done in the new as was done in the old. That the single track selection was not originally in the beta is the reason why betas exist - to examine and tweak the user experience in response to feedback. That proves that Sonos listens.
As no functionality has been removed the only thing to complain about is that a different way if doing what was done has been introduced. Divorcing self from Sonos and explain to someone with no knowledge of Sonos that something is horrid, awful, disgraceful because you have to press button g instead of button b to do something does come over as somewhat trite. There are times I wonder how people cope with a new TV or washing machine or refrigerator.
Please, I make general comments rather than any specific perceived criticism of yourself which is not my intention and i hope no offnce is taken.
Of course you, or anyone, is able to express their dislike of something but I disagree that expressing displeasure that is RTFM failure is not any manufacturers fault. I think that is objective and not subjective. Subjectivity continues to express itself until how to use the changes have been learnt.
I disagree about the communal jukebox as I doubt there are many users who only use their system in a group situation (argh! No headphone socket so i can't charge my phone whilst listening to music). With any change the first casualties always seem to be relevancy and context.
So there is nothing that can't be done in the new as was done in the old. That the single track selection was not originally in the beta is the reason why betas exist - to examine and tweak the user experience in response to feedback. That proves that Sonos listens.
As no functionality has been removed the only thing to complain about is that a different way if doing what was done has been introduced. Divorcing self from Sonos and explain to someone with no knowledge of Sonos that something is horrid, awful, disgraceful because you have to press button g instead of button b to do something does come over as somewhat trite. There are times I wonder how people cope with a new TV or washing machine or refrigerator.
Please, I make general comments rather than any specific perceived criticism of yourself which is not my intention and i hope no offnce is taken.
Nonsense. Designing a user interface and telling people how to use it does not absolve your work from subjective criticism. You can like it, I can hate it, neither of us is wrong, nor is one of us ignoring the f'n manual. Quit trying to negate legitimate, subjective criticism. Even I didn't do that with the 5.0 complainers. I told them that there is no chance of going backwards and they should instead concentrate on making 5.0 better. But I never told them their dislike isn't warranted or RTFM.
I am pointing out that many complaints are because of RTFM failure and not because the interface has changed. Using the new interface is objective because it requires following new instructions.Your opinion of the interface is subjective, as is any opinion. If you dislike it and have reasons why rather than "I hate it" that's fine just as i like it is fine. I'm still learning a lot how to use it and getting out of lazy habit takes a bit of work. It is not as immediately intuitive as the old way because there are more choices now. There are a few things that annoy me but the pluses far, far outweigh the minuses which, TBH, have very low relevancy to everyday use.
I am not telling anybody anything nor trying to negate valuable criticism. I am presenting my opinion which is backed up by the objective observation of complaints which seem to revolve around RTFM failure.
I am not telling anybody anything nor trying to negate valuable criticism. I am presenting my opinion which is backed up by the objective observation of complaints which seem to revolve around RTFM failure.
There is a poll now to maybe collate votes in one thread.
User interface design is best judged by usage, not the quality and awareness of its documentation.
Imagine a car maker that decided to make the steering wheel operate in the opposite way. Clockwise turns left, anti-clockwise to the right. This change is clearly documented and advertised. All purchasers get suitable training. This is still not a good UI decision because it is not intuitive, it changes previous convention, and if you let anyone else use the car they are likely not trained and don't have the time or inclination to RTFM.
Imagine a car maker that decided to make the steering wheel operate in the opposite way. Clockwise turns left, anti-clockwise to the right. This change is clearly documented and advertised. All purchasers get suitable training. This is still not a good UI decision because it is not intuitive, it changes previous convention, and if you let anyone else use the car they are likely not trained and don't have the time or inclination to RTFM.
Perfect Peter Mc, just perfect.
Some desperately need to disagree though.
Some desperately need to disagree though.
Imagine a car maker that replaced the gear shift with paddles on the steering wheel, radio volume control on the steering wheel as well as the radio, made the wipers operate automatically when it rains, turned the lights in poor light, automatic gear box therefore no clutch...
Then again options have been moved to the three dots whilst tapping the item executes a command. To get some consistency with other apps?
Imagine a car maker that made you put the ignition key in the ignition socket by the steering wheel rather than having to insert it in the trunk.
Then again options have been moved to the three dots whilst tapping the item executes a command. To get some consistency with other apps?
Imagine a car maker that made you put the ignition key in the ignition socket by the steering wheel rather than having to insert it in the trunk.
I really like the new update. I tend not to be a big user of the queue, so the ability to play music quickly is a bonus. I do have a few playlists saved for specific reasons, but in general listen to an album, clear the queue, then listen to another. I can see that 6.4 is a significant change which will take time to feel like normal.
Good point DGR1! It's going to take some time to get used to the update. I miss my Queue! Which I accidentally deleted due to the update, but the new update allows us to get to our music faster. The poll someone is taking is showing little support for 6.4 now. My guess is that in couple weeks, most of us will be happy.
The queue has always been a key design feature, way ahead of iTunes, great for a bunch of people sharing music. I never had to read a manual and no one who came over to my house ever did. It was elegant design. Now, I give the controller to a guest and I need to run them through a tutorial about the entirely counter-intuitive thinking someone has written in to this. Eg no music is playing so you choose play now for a song and then add to end of queue for the next one, the first song plays, but it's at the beginning of an old queue and the second one you chose is at the end!! Before, play now put the song at the end of the queue and add to queue went after it.
Manual or no manual, this update looks like it's trying to make Sonos more like iTunes rather than sticking to its own identity, and, for me, that's not working.
Manual or no manual, this update looks like it's trying to make Sonos more like iTunes rather than sticking to its own identity, and, for me, that's not working.
Manual or no manual, this update looks like it's trying to make Sonos more like iTunes rather than sticking to its own identity, and, for me, that's not working.
Yup. That's exactly what they're doing. Following instead of leading. If this is the first effort after their internal shakeup, I'm not encouraged.
I really liked the old way. I really hate that now one errant finger changes what's playing. I can see that others might like it though. I think it should be an option.
I typed a lengthy reply and then the website wanted me to sign in and dumped my reply. Shame on me.
I maintain same as in the past - new system stupid because it does not provide friendly accommodations for the users that built the company reputation on solid hardware and user-friendly software for those who built it by their $. Thumbs down on Sonos the company.
I maintain same as in the past - new system stupid because it does not provide friendly accommodations for the users that built the company reputation on solid hardware and user-friendly software for those who built it by their $. Thumbs down on Sonos the company.
In a nutshell - they rule and they don't really give a rat's rump. IF they did, they would give the old dogs a bone.
One last thought - I am abandoning Sonos because of their approach and attitude. It might take awhile for the others to catch up, but SONOS - they will.
Oh, it was meant to be a last one but something else happened to my "lovely" Sonos setup today. About every 2-3 minutes playback stops on any queue and when you look the queue is empty and all settings - volumes, groupings, everything - is gone. Everything is cleared in the controller, just like it was freshly installed. Rebooted all, from the server to the Boost. Sonos here always fails right at special occasions, just to add insult to injury. Family coming for turkey day and no music - that's Sonos here for sure. All the more reason to throw it in the trash despite all the $ I spent.
Found the problem; error checking in the controller. There is a certain kind of error in playing music that resets the controller. The error trapping has a hole in it.
Bought a new Denon system. I am sure I will have issues, but I have had it with Sonos.
Last thing that happened was that when I set it up with WiFi when the Boost (so-called Enterprise level device) could not carry the load (WiFi on Channel 11 Boost on 1) of 2 Play 1s and a Connect in a pretty small footprint - 1 floor - it said I could disconnect the Boost (or other router connection) and later informed me it had to have a Boost or other network connect because I was employing a network extender. So it works somewhat with the Boost reconnected - is that a Boost tax? The system was great. It is now a pain beyond tolerance when you add the "software upgrade". I will bash them wherever I get the opportunity. The Crutchfield chatter asked me why I was switching and I gave her an ear full.
Whatever.
Agree 100% - update is pretty rubbish all round. The entire reason I bought the SONOS, besides the sound quality, was the fact it just worked as I wanted - it played music. When I wanted it to. I could control the experience as I wanted to.
I can still do the experience control easily, as I have been able to since every update from the time I bought Sonos in 2011. Every wireless system faces network issues, and Sonos faces fewer than most others. I have come across a few and solved them with the help of users here and Sonos staff.
For anyone that will not take that effort, no wireless audio set up is suitable. Except the simple one of bluetooth speakers but the price paid for the ease there is lower sound quality in general, occasional stuttering, and beeps and pops when the source phone is being used for other reasons.
For anyone that will not take that effort, no wireless audio set up is suitable. Except the simple one of bluetooth speakers but the price paid for the ease there is lower sound quality in general, occasional stuttering, and beeps and pops when the source phone is being used for other reasons.
Kumar - I can use my Apple TV to stream wireless audio to my TV whenever I want to without any issues whatsoever. SONOS used to be the same, but is now problematic to say the least. I am running wireless bands that my neighbours are not, and I have no clashing IP addresses. Yes some of the responses on here are less articulate than they could be, but we are customers, and I think many of us are sick of updates - both for updates sake, and through lack of proper testing by most companies (SONOS is not major culprit in this area, hence the frustration at the new problems).
I agree that updates often include cosmetic changes that I hate - because I have to relearn the use of the app - but not because of the update process itself which is swift, painless and once in a quarter, so not a big deal to my use of the kit.
But cosmetic changes and refreshes seems to be what the market wants and gets so it can have a fresh set of complaints each time as well.
In your case - are you on Sonosnet that needs at least one Sonos unit to be wired to the router? I have always had a Bridge so wired with reserved IP addresses for all WiFi kit, upgraded by the Boost when it was launched, and in an apartment complex with a dozen WiFi network visible I still have over 99% average uptime. Months pass unnoticed at 100%.
But cosmetic changes and refreshes seems to be what the market wants and gets so it can have a fresh set of complaints each time as well.
In your case - are you on Sonosnet that needs at least one Sonos unit to be wired to the router? I have always had a Bridge so wired with reserved IP addresses for all WiFi kit, upgraded by the Boost when it was launched, and in an apartment complex with a dozen WiFi network visible I still have over 99% average uptime. Months pass unnoticed at 100%.
Users used to want cosmetic changes, but honestly most people I talk to now are more frustrated than excited! But I hear what you are saying - I used to be to one of the excited ones... I am only running a Play 5 so don't have an extended SONOS network to manage. I am in a free standing home (not unit block). I might have to look into running an ethernet through the roof to the SONOS to run it in boost mode, but the main frustration for me is this has never been a problem until the last update.
The SONOS can see the airport extreme from it's position - it is about 5 metres away! I have loads of devices, lots of airport extenders for WiFi - and nothing else has a problem. As I said, the SONOS had been perfect until the last update - which keeps leading me back to something in that update. I just had to roll back software updates on other applications I am running - for the same reason - untested issues causing problems. Back to the old versions and everything is perfect.
Still going to test a bunch of stuff with this SONOS - but this is what is frustrating me more and more: I don't have endless time to sort out problems that didn't exist previously. Yes there are times it is a practical, testable thing and you can find a solution, but there are plenty of times in more recent years where it is a software/firmware problem with an update.
The SONOS can see the airport extreme from it's position - it is about 5 metres away! I have loads of devices, lots of airport extenders for WiFi - and nothing else has a problem. As I said, the SONOS had been perfect until the last update - which keeps leading me back to something in that update. I just had to roll back software updates on other applications I am running - for the same reason - untested issues causing problems. Back to the old versions and everything is perfect.
Still going to test a bunch of stuff with this SONOS - but this is what is frustrating me more and more: I don't have endless time to sort out problems that didn't exist previously. Yes there are times it is a practical, testable thing and you can find a solution, but there are plenty of times in more recent years where it is a software/firmware problem with an update.
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