Hi
Let's say i'm having a party, and my Sonos is playing the music.
Many of my guests are friends that earlier has gotten access to my WiFi. During the party, these guests could download Sonos Controller/app, connect to Sonos, and start controlling the music.
There is no way in Sonos controllers to set a password, to avoid this behaviour.
Other workarounds would be setting up a guest WiFi network that doesn't have access to Sonos, but this would require a new router (in som cases), or change my original password in my entire existing network, which would be annoying ;)
Are there any plans to add this feature?
Maybe even a possibility to require a password for each Sonos device (tick box in controller preferences for each device?)
Am i missing something, other than keeping my guests sober and not annoying 😃
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By your logic, if the Sonos owner gives someone a wifi password, then the *Sonos owner* is the idiot if the guest can access and delete your files on any computer on the local network by merely installing the Windows File Sharing app on their phone. But they in fact can't just browse your computer from their phone, because things like File and Printer sharing can be set up to have passwords. I have wifi printers, but no one can print to them unless I give them the password. Why is a wifi printer more secure than Sonos? The "it's your responsibility" thing is a very tired complaint. No one applies it to anything else. This sonos community requires a username and password to participate. Authentication of devices is standard. Again, your devices are almost always decoupled from your wifi password in terms of access, but not sonos. Is anyone with a wifi password allowed to change my house temperature to their liking via the Nest? As more and more house items become wifi-enabled, guests can just jump to tinker with them, just because they have the wifi password?
I get it, a guest network can be used as the solution. I've never set one up for a bunch of devices and am not sure if it would all work seamlessly. I DO know that adding a PIN to the Sonos app for authentication would NOT interfere with my home network. Requiring the user to do more work and tinker with their network setup is not really a modern approach to solving a problem that can be easily solved on the software side. Call it "user laziness" or whatever, but complicating a network often has unintended consequences and I'd rather not do it if I didn't have to.
I get it, a guest network can be used as the solution. I've never set one up for a bunch of devices and am not sure if it would all work seamlessly. I DO know that adding a PIN to the Sonos app for authentication would NOT interfere with my home network. Requiring the user to do more work and tinker with their network setup is not really a modern approach to solving a problem that can be easily solved on the software side. Call it "user laziness" or whatever, but complicating a network often has unintended consequences and I'd rather not do it if I didn't have to.
And who said anything about "Sonos being responsible" for misbehavior? Users are noticing a recurring issue with the product, and have given feedback to Sonos that we would appreciate a relatively simple add-on. Who is the grand poobah that decides what feature requests are morally acceptable and which ones are not? If enough people make them complaint, it's a legit issue for Sonos to look into, in my opinion. It's great you haven't had an issue, but many of us have.
I can use my phone to change channels on my TV. But I need to authenticate first with my ATT password. If the app didn't have authentication and users complained that guests could change channels, that would be complaints about "ATT being responsible for misbehavior"?
And I assure you that there are PLENTY of people out there who wouldn't even like the IDEA that it's possible for a guest to wrest control of the devices -- for those people they have NO IDEA that they need a guest network. However, if the option to "Set up your PIN!" had come up on installation they of course would have done that.
I can use my phone to change channels on my TV. But I need to authenticate first with my ATT password. If the app didn't have authentication and users complained that guests could change channels, that would be complaints about "ATT being responsible for misbehavior"?
And I assure you that there are PLENTY of people out there who wouldn't even like the IDEA that it's possible for a guest to wrest control of the devices -- for those people they have NO IDEA that they need a guest network. However, if the option to "Set up your PIN!" had come up on installation they of course would have done that.
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@The _Bastard_Son. I wouldn't complain if it were introduced as an option as I wouldn't enable it.
@juanb - It is NOT possible for a "guest" or anybody for that matter to "wrest" control of your Sonos system unless YOU give them your wi-fi password. And if they are the sort of people who would childishly mess about with your Sonos then that might be the least of your worries.
@juanb - It is NOT possible for a "guest" or anybody for that matter to "wrest" control of your Sonos system unless YOU give them your wi-fi password. And if they are the sort of people who would childishly mess about with your Sonos then that might be the least of your worries.
@juanb - I'm with you buddy. I wrote on this thread a long while ago, and received similar feedback about guest networks and controlling my children / friends.
I have rooms in my house that I don't want ANYONE to be able to play music in but me or my wife. But because there is no PIN or Password, I don't have the ability to lock that down. Forget the guest network thing....I don't want my own family playing or changing the music in these rooms. Someone else told me to control my children. I guess my parenting is now in question too.
Meanwhile, the few lines of code it would take to enable this option is WAY TOO COMPLICATED....so I guess I'll enroll in some parenting classes......
I have rooms in my house that I don't want ANYONE to be able to play music in but me or my wife. But because there is no PIN or Password, I don't have the ability to lock that down. Forget the guest network thing....I don't want my own family playing or changing the music in these rooms. Someone else told me to control my children. I guess my parenting is now in question too.
Meanwhile, the few lines of code it would take to enable this option is WAY TOO COMPLICATED....so I guess I'll enroll in some parenting classes......
Guess you'll have to if you tell your kids not to do something and they do it anyway.
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Well just because people don't have the same opinion as you doesn't mean your parenting is being questioned. Besides, it really isn't unreasonable to suggest that you should be able to avoid your children messing with music in particular if the parents have forbidden it. After all there are things in your house that could hurt or kill your children and they respect the warnings you give them about those things don't they?
Split the Sonos into two (or more) Sonos 'households' (systems). Dedicate a controller or two to the 'private' household.
Controllers on the main system won't see the 'private' units. And a casual visitor won't be able to associate their controller app with the 'private' players without entering those rooms and pressing buttons.
If you need to operate the 'private' household on SonosNet then one of its components must be wired. But assuming the main household is already on SonosNet then the wired 'private' household device can even be plugged into one of the existing main household units.
Oh wait....I also manage my security system, surveillance, HVAC, lighting, etc. all through my network. Each one has some controls placed in front of them to prevent access....but not my audio. I'll make sure I bring this up in class too.
Does your banking app have a password on it? If so, why not just delete it and tell people not to access your account while on your network?
Does your banking app have a password on it? If so, why not just delete it and tell people not to access your account while on your network?
Sometimes accidents happen and someone does something they didn't mean to do.
People.....all of your suggestions will work. No one is questioning the ability to create and manage guest networks.
The real solution is even simpler....just add a PIN or password and we're done talking about this.
People.....all of your suggestions will work. No one is questioning the ability to create and manage guest networks.
The real solution is even simpler....just add a PIN or password and we're done talking about this.
People.....all of your suggestions will work. No one is questioning the ability to create and manage guest networks.
The real solution is even simpler....just add a PIN or password and we're done talking about this.
Look at the facts: This thread is over 2 years old. Others with similar requests go back to the very first days of Sonos. In that time, Sonos has not given one indication that they are going to implement this feature, in fact the Sonos CEO and founder expressly stated he never wants to implement a passcode feature.
Given these facts, exactly where should those of us who give advice on this site concentrate our efforts: Suggesting workarounds which help you accomplish what you wish to do, or agreeing with you and joining your vocal, but ultimately futile, admonitions to a company that long ago decided against this feature?
Answer honestly.
Ducati, these folks have such a bizarre line of reasoning I do not think it is possible to use logic against them.
Look, folks, these are not theoretical concerns. Kids and immature friends do stuff that annoys you -- that does not mean that you are a bad parent or bad friend or that you need to cut them out of your lives. We know that right now giving out a wifi password also gives control to Sonos -- we are ASKING for something to decouple that. We are NOT asking for advice on how to stop the behavior that led to that request, frankly, because such advice is obvious and condescending. I have had Sonos for more than 10 years, and it has only recently become a problem. Why? Because more and more people are tied to wifi (wifi-only devices, data caps on cell plans) and because Sonos has become much more mainstream. And therefore this will be a growing problem.
If there are things in my house that can hurt my kids I do whatever I can to protect them from it -- I have a pool fence, locked cabinets, and stuff high up out of reach. I don't put them all in a safe, but I do what I can to create minimum precautions against casual entry. A PIN would be a similar minimum precaution against casual entry. The guest-network solution requires that I change my wifi password, change that password on all the laptops/phones/kindles/ipads that currently have that password (at least 10 devices), set up a guest wifi network, and then give out that new password to all my friends and family. Not that bad, but would have been nice to just set up a PIN.
Now, I actually think the guest wifi is a good idea for the future, because there will be more and more of these devices and so it will make sense to create a "cordoned area" of the Wifi just for guests who want internet access. So I think it's not a bad solution. But, seriously, guys, the condescension is out of control. You could just say "Unfortunately, Sonos doesn't do that. A guest network on your wifi could do that for you." Instead we got "What kind of friends do you have that would mess with your system? Why don't you just revoke wifi passwords as you go? What do you mean your children aren't behaved enough to realize that playing Disney music at 6am in their zone also plays it in the parents zone?"
Ducati's point about the PIN-to-zone system is also good. There are definitely scenarios where it would be good to separate out at least one zone if not more for private access. I guess the multiple households thing would work, but then you need separate controllers.
Look, folks, these are not theoretical concerns. Kids and immature friends do stuff that annoys you -- that does not mean that you are a bad parent or bad friend or that you need to cut them out of your lives. We know that right now giving out a wifi password also gives control to Sonos -- we are ASKING for something to decouple that. We are NOT asking for advice on how to stop the behavior that led to that request, frankly, because such advice is obvious and condescending. I have had Sonos for more than 10 years, and it has only recently become a problem. Why? Because more and more people are tied to wifi (wifi-only devices, data caps on cell plans) and because Sonos has become much more mainstream. And therefore this will be a growing problem.
If there are things in my house that can hurt my kids I do whatever I can to protect them from it -- I have a pool fence, locked cabinets, and stuff high up out of reach. I don't put them all in a safe, but I do what I can to create minimum precautions against casual entry. A PIN would be a similar minimum precaution against casual entry. The guest-network solution requires that I change my wifi password, change that password on all the laptops/phones/kindles/ipads that currently have that password (at least 10 devices), set up a guest wifi network, and then give out that new password to all my friends and family. Not that bad, but would have been nice to just set up a PIN.
Now, I actually think the guest wifi is a good idea for the future, because there will be more and more of these devices and so it will make sense to create a "cordoned area" of the Wifi just for guests who want internet access. So I think it's not a bad solution. But, seriously, guys, the condescension is out of control. You could just say "Unfortunately, Sonos doesn't do that. A guest network on your wifi could do that for you." Instead we got "What kind of friends do you have that would mess with your system? Why don't you just revoke wifi passwords as you go? What do you mean your children aren't behaved enough to realize that playing Disney music at 6am in their zone also plays it in the parents zone?"
Ducati's point about the PIN-to-zone system is also good. There are definitely scenarios where it would be good to separate out at least one zone if not more for private access. I guess the multiple households thing would work, but then you need separate controllers.
I appreciate your feedback jgatie and understand what you're saying.
That's why after a few posts on this topic, I let it go. Didn't seem like it was going to happen.
Then read @juanb's comments and got me started again.
This was the first I've heard that the CEO will not support PINs/Passwords....if I had known that, I never would have posted my request.
That's why after a few posts on this topic, I let it go. Didn't seem like it was going to happen.
Then read @juanb's comments and got me started again.
This was the first I've heard that the CEO will not support PINs/Passwords....if I had known that, I never would have posted my request.
jgatie, again - no one has issue with the constructive feedback. it's the condescending "control your friends" nonsense that is crazy. PINs and passcodes exist to a large degree because sometimes you cannot trust completely the folks you've given your wifi password to.
I also had not heard about the CEO's statement either. But surely having this issue die down in the forums is EXACTLY the way to ensure it will never happen, right???? Only if there are consistent, persistent voices will they think about implementing this. As you suggest, Sonos's aversion to this is clearly because of some philosophical reason rather than a technical one.
I also had not heard about the CEO's statement either. But surely having this issue die down in the forums is EXACTLY the way to ensure it will never happen, right???? Only if there are consistent, persistent voices will they think about implementing this. As you suggest, Sonos's aversion to this is clearly because of some philosophical reason rather than a technical one.
Will Sonos offer some parental controls to dumb down the interface and limit speaker volume?
We had lots of debates about this early on: how do you personalize a controller. With the CR100 and CR200 you don’t really know who’s using it. You can’t really put an identification step up front, it’s just getting in the way of time-to-music. But if we’re on your phone, that’s your phone. So we can start doing things like, maybe you have a mode on the Android controller or the iPhone controller to dumb it down. But that’s the challenge with doing things like parental controls, which one are you using and which one are they using. You can’t put, "hey, type in the three numbers to start using a controller" because that’s going to drive you crazy usability wise, you’ll turn it off and never turn that feature on again. We view the tablets as the social controllers, the one you’re going to pass around, and the smartphone as your personal controller. There’s a real nice opportunity to have zones that are ordered based on how often you use them and stuff like that.
http://www.theverge.com/2011/10/21/2504462/john-macfarlane-prepares-sonos-for-airplay-assault-and-possible-home
I also had not heard about the CEO's statement either. But surely having this issue die down in the forums is EXACTLY the way to ensure it will never happen, right???? Only if there are consistent, persistent voices will they think about implementing this. As you suggest, Sonos's aversion to this is clearly because of some philosophical reason rather than a technical one.
"Control your friends and/or kids" is not condescending nor crazy, it is a natural reaction to descriptions of what most normal people would consider rude, disrespectful and unacceptable behavior. If my kid ever blasted rap music in my bedroom at 2 AM, his/her phone would be under lockup for a month. If my guests abused the music selection on a regular basis, they'd be put on the guest network as fast as I could change passwords. There's no way in hell I'd personally put up with constantly entering a passcode just so I could police rude guests or unruly kids. YMMV, but it is certainly a subject to be broached.
As to the CEO's statement, you can view it above, and it does seem to be philosophical. In my experience, the continued bleating of few, but vocal, advocates does nothing to change his philosophy. See the Windows mobile and Hires audio threads for examples, and the number of posts by "consistent, persistent voices" in those threads absolutely dwarf those calling for passcodes or parental locks.
Thanks for the link, jgatie. I don't really buy that argument completely -- you would put the PIN in your Sonos app on your phone once and it wouldn't ask again. I can see that the PIN-step (even if no human intervention is required after the first time) could add to the "time-to-music", so that may be a valid concern. A whitelist could also work -- I could type in the MAC addresses of all my phones/ipads into the Sonos and whitelist only those to work with the Sonos system. Again, I don't know enough technically if that would increase the time-to-music.
Interview from 2011. Hmm wonder if he still has same view.
Precedence has been set re allowing missing new features from legacy CR controllers which sounds like wouldn't be able to support control feature.
Precedence has been set re allowing missing new features from legacy CR controllers which sounds like wouldn't be able to support control feature.
jgatie, all due respect the posts along those lines are quite condescending (def: having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.). When posters basically say "I can keep my friends or kids in line, why can't you?", that is patronizing. Besides, must I really dissect the argument, which is not even all that good apart from the condescension? For example: 1) You would have no idea at a party who was doing it. How would you address that person???? 2) There are social transgressions (maybe like a guest putting his feet up on a coffee table) that bother you but may not bother everyone and therefore you don't want to seem like a jerky host by pointing it out and would rather instead look for a solution (e.g., a tablecloth on your coffee table for next time you have guests over). 3) This is an internet forum about a technical product, geared at people asking for technical solutions, not a counseling session on how poorly users have chosen their friends.
Having the option for the tablecloth is what people are asking for. I am sure there are people who live in museum quality houses with really nice uncovered coffee tables whose friends would know never to put their feet up on it, and I am sure there are people who downright encourage folks to put their feet up on their coffee table. Bully for them -- go right ahead! I'm not going to condescend and say "What kind of person lets guests put their feet up on a table? or What kind of snooty person keeps their house like a museum?" Those of us who like optionality would prefer a "tablecloth" feature like a PIN.
Having the option for the tablecloth is what people are asking for. I am sure there are people who live in museum quality houses with really nice uncovered coffee tables whose friends would know never to put their feet up on it, and I am sure there are people who downright encourage folks to put their feet up on their coffee table. Bully for them -- go right ahead! I'm not going to condescend and say "What kind of person lets guests put their feet up on a table? or What kind of snooty person keeps their house like a museum?" Those of us who like optionality would prefer a "tablecloth" feature like a PIN.
But it all comes down to YOU giving out your WIFI password. Just change it if someone you gave it to previously is abusing it. Problem solved.
I have never given out my WIFI password to anyone outside of my immediate family. No need to. If guests need that much internet access at my place that they need to switch over to WIFI, then why are they visiting in the first place? And even then, I have guest access enabled on my router. Problem also solved.
I have never given out my WIFI password to anyone outside of my immediate family. No need to. If guests need that much internet access at my place that they need to switch over to WIFI, then why are they visiting in the first place? And even then, I have guest access enabled on my router. Problem also solved.
Whether your definition of the transgression is different from mine or not (as I previously said, YMMV), this thread is about preventing someone from doing something the owner of the home feels is not warranted. So my statement that "There's no way in hell I'd personally put up with constantly entering a passcode just so I could police rude guests or unruly kids" still applies, and questioning why anyone else would suffer inconvenience in order to police those actions, when there are better alternatives, is not condescension, it is reality.
Even if the process of associating a Sonos controller was PIN-managed, and even if Sonos provided per-room PIN entry, the diagnostic/control interface on IP port 1400 is open on each and every player. A fool who wanted to really mess with a Sonos system could simply use a third party control app. The only way to prevent that is to keep such undesirables off your LAN subnet.
jgatie -- We can agree to disagree on the interpretation. I wasn't trying to single you out, and what you quoted is fine to me, but other posters did not couch their barbs in the form of a personal opinion, but more of a "parent your kids" approach. You of course would not have to constantly put in the passcode because a) you could opt to have it off and b) sonos would of course only force you to put it in once per device. that is a straw man argument.
ratty -- I am impressed with your knowledge of the sonos technical details. I'll take your word for it, but again this is about casual entry. Of course a dedicated intruder could bypass almost any defense. I merely want to prevent guests from showing off that "Hey, I happen to know that if you have the Sonos app you can hijack the host's system as long as you get the wifi password, which you can innocently ask for." Based on this thread, I will definitely be setting up a guest network....
ratty -- I am impressed with your knowledge of the sonos technical details. I'll take your word for it, but again this is about casual entry. Of course a dedicated intruder could bypass almost any defense. I merely want to prevent guests from showing off that "Hey, I happen to know that if you have the Sonos app you can hijack the host's system as long as you get the wifi password, which you can innocently ask for." Based on this thread, I will definitely be setting up a guest network....
@juanb,
For your particular concern, you would only need to enter it once. Others in this and other threads have asked for passcodes for parental controls, or to password protect certain rooms, Settings menus, queue management, and any number of other features that could easily require one to enter a passcode on a frequent and annoying basis.
I for one do not know why Sonos took away the requirement to press hardware buttons on an actual player to add a controller to the system. I saw this as a better detriment to unauthorized use than any passcodes. But that is just me, and none of these concerns are an actual concern if one makes use of a guest network, which has the equally important function of keeping people off your private LAN.
For your particular concern, you would only need to enter it once. Others in this and other threads have asked for passcodes for parental controls, or to password protect certain rooms, Settings menus, queue management, and any number of other features that could easily require one to enter a passcode on a frequent and annoying basis.
I for one do not know why Sonos took away the requirement to press hardware buttons on an actual player to add a controller to the system. I saw this as a better detriment to unauthorized use than any passcodes. But that is just me, and none of these concerns are an actual concern if one makes use of a guest network, which has the equally important function of keeping people off your private LAN.
If the router doesn't have a 'guest SSID' feature, the same protection from intruders can be achieved simply by putting the Sonos and all the normal occupants' devices behind a second router, cascaded off the first one. Sonos doesn't care about being behind a double-NAT. Guests can use the outer LAN. In fact I do this so guests can also avail themselves of a small separate Sonos household, the players located in guest rooms.
Convenience. There must have been countless "why must we press buttons to identify our ONE Sonos system?" comments.
For the paranoid a simple workaround is to have a single component from a different Household -- a BRIDGE will do -- on the same subnet. You'll then be asked to press buttons as before.
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