Connect:AMP keeps cutting out...all components hardwired

While it’s possible that a Sonos Forum moderator will have time to look at your diagnostic, and respond, you’re much more likely to get a timely answer if you call Sonos Support directly to discuss it.

One way to knock: @Corry P 

Thanks for the help everyone and chiming in so quickly. Just FYI, I intentionally post here for SEO purposes and to bring visibility to the issue for the wider community at large. Sometimes phone calls aren’t quite good enough in my opinion.

again many thanks and hopefully the issue gets resolved with updated firmware.

unless I am mistaken, a new firmware has dropped that appears to address this issue.  only a couple hours of testing here at my installation, but seems much better so far.

Hi @Gerald Harmon 

I’m not sure which update you are referring to - we haven’t released one since the 12th of December. However, I feel I should set some expectations here - although some other products are currently experiencing similar symptoms which we are doing our best to address, I do not expect the issue your Connect:AMP is affected by to ever be fixed by a software update - the issue is physical (hardware) in nature.

If you have belatedly installed the last update, I suspect the reboot that happened afterwards has delayed the occurrence of the symptoms for a small time.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

darn.  thanks @Corry P .  hate to nitpick, but I disagree with the assertion that the issue is physical, as the physical hardware worked flawlessly for years before a recent (June of 23 I think based on reading here) software update.  

The sheer volume of posts here makes it quite clear what has occurred.  Honestly, the company should just own it.  Either support the Connect:AMP on S2 fully, or create an S3 iteration of hardware, or give your customers a reasonable EOL (end-of-life for other readers) for the products and allow us to plan.  In no event should a “supported” product become unreliable due to a “supported” software update cycle.

A disappointing event for a decade-plus Sonos supporter and customer.  Until now, rock solid products and software, setting aside the S1 to S2 throw-your-old-stuff in the ocean misstep (later walked back with quite a bit of redface).

Gerald, since the Sonos response is based on a look at your diagnostics one has to assume that they have a basis for saying that your issue is different from the one plaguing other Connect Amps running S2.

You can test this for yourself if you wish - move the failing Connect Amp back to S1 and see if it continues to fail. If instead it works fine under S1, Sonos may suffer another red face.

PS: I just noticed your comment about the new update. For Sonos to be correct, your Connect Amp units should still fail even after that update is installed?

@Gerald Harmon,
Just to add to @Kumar’s post here if you do decide to try S1..  a downgrade to a new S1 system can only be done if there is one of the following Sonos devices available to you to create that system in the first instance. So you will need an S1 only product, as per the below list of ‘older’ players…

• Connect (Gen 1)
• Connect:Amp (Gen 1)
• Play:5 (Gen 1)
• ZonePlayer 100
• ZonePlayer 120
• ZonePlayer 80
• ZonePlayer 90
• ZonePlayer S5

Hi @Gerald Harmon 

I understand your point completely, but as the specific hardware fault in this case is related to failing flash memory, a change in how much memory is used, or in how it is used, can change things. The update you got in June 2023 - not due to it’s content - was likely the point at which enough memory was failing to become an issue for your particular device, and installing that latest firmware may have taken the memory past it’s tipping point.

Having said all that, we're close to releasing an update that fixes certain conditions with older players. I still recommend that you do not get your hopes up, however, as things will still likely vary on a device-by-device basis.

Curious that this failing flash memory issue is not surfacing in Connect Amps running in S1? Or is it just going unreported?

I read that Staff post differently here and that @Corry P was just referring to this users specific Connect Amp, rather than every device out there. Stating that any forthcoming fix might not resolve their own reported issue, as it appears the device has memory locations that are perhaps ‘already’ marked internally as being unusable. This can apply to S1 or S2 updates, was my thinking - In fact I wonder if the S1/S2 downgrade process might in fact make things even worse with such devices, as I guess that can ‘perhaps’ put additional demand on a devices memory🤔? 

Hi, I appreciate you being up front about this.  But specific hardware failures aside (and this would not be the case for everyone), I don’t see how anything other than restoring the level of  reliability present before your software update would be acceptable here.  If Sonos pushed this update, you are responsible.  I have 3 Connect:Amps that you rendered unreliable.  
Rather than clarify your answer has increased doubts that a viable fix is forthcoming.  Sorry, this not good enough. 
 

andrew 

All muddy water to us on the outside. And while a serious issue for individual users, I would think that the total number of affected Connect Amps - the ones that could and were taken to S2 - is small compared to say play 1 units. I remember reading somewhere that play 3 and play 1 units are also in line to suffer the same issue with S2, and if so it will be a much bigger problem given the numbers of those units out there as compared to Connect Amps. Makes me glad that I stuck to S1 with units whose hardware was meant for S1; and nothing really changes now in S1 for months on end and when it does, it is probably minor tweaks. Reading all these has made me decide to not apply even S1 updates to my 12 Sonos units going forward; I don’t think that the risk of being exposed to new security issues is large enough to risk breaking the units by the next S1 upgrade. Let sleeping dogs lie!

Hi @Kumar 

You seem to be confusing two completely separate issues with each other.

The failed flash memory issue predominantly affects older components that are S1-only devices.

Hi @Andrew-s 

You also seem to confusing the two issues that have the same symptoms, rather like @Kumar. I gather your 3 Connect:Amps have been affected more recently? In that case - though I cannot verify without diagnostics - it seems likely to me that, in your case, a fix will be coming soon. The same cannot be said as confidently for @Gerald Harmon, however (whose diagnostics I have seen) as he is affected by a completely different issue. Technically, this makes you off-topic for this thread, but understandably so.

I hope this helps.

Corry,  you seem not to have understood Kumar’s point.

His suggesting that it is somewhat suspicious that Connect:Amp users running S2 are likely being pointed to failing memory as the cause of their issues, as opposed to the update you pushed last year, thus conveniently removing yourselves from any blame.  The number of users with this issue *could* point to many many Connect:Amps suffering memory failure around the same time, but this is unlikely.  It is more likely to be due to your firmware update.  

I would have thought his point was obvious. 
Andrew 
 

I must have erred in thinking that the Gerald issues were in an S2 environment. But your last sentence quoted makes it doubly clear to me that I should shut down all future S1 updates for my system. I don’t want to expose my two Connect Amps that work perfectly, to any S1 update change driven exposure in future. Or any of my other ten units including play 1 units and early years Sub, to such.

Hi @Kumar 

S2 is in use. I did emphasise “predominantly” for a reason.

Hi @Gerald Harmon 

Apologies - there was in fact a Service Pack release for S2 last week (on the 24th), but a typo led me to believe otherwise. I can’t find any information on what it addressed, but as a Service Pack, it would not have been a great deal.

I will keep things on topic by not replying to the above!

thanks @Corry P .  You’re doing great work for the company here; I know it’s tough.

The company hopefully takes notes of your engagement efforts here.  It’s good for them.

With that said, and I don’t mean to drag this out unnecessarily, even failing memory indicates an issue if that’s the case.  it’s hard for me to understand a solid state component having a high failure rate on a device that’s likely 5-6 years old.  I know we can’t have 20 year VCRs anymore, lol, but i would hope the internal memory on the C:A units would last longer than that.

Thanks again for your time and engagement! 

Hi @Gerald Harmon 

Thanks for your support!

Truly, I do not know enough about flash memory to comment confidently. My personal assumption would be, however, that two storage units that came off the same production line right next to each other on the same day could have entirely different lifespans, and ensuring anything else would significantly increase costs. This would certainly explain why some individual devices have developed issues, when other devices (even older ones) have not.

Remember that what seems to be a “high failure rate” only seems so here on the community where the majority of users only visit to report a problem - most users do not have issues and therefore do not report here saying “everything is fine”, though I sometimes wish they would, just for balance! When we’ve sold tens of thousands of units (or orders of magnitude more), even 100 people reporting issues here is a tiny fraction, and when you read a thread, just 10 people reporting an issue will seem like a lot.

You are most welcome!

S2 uses more memory that S1 so S2 pushes data into areas that were previously free or used for things that the failures were not noticed.

If the update added any bytes to the firmware (we users can’t know) it could have pushed some units that were previously performing well into the problem group.

Flash memory is not durable, it has a lifetime usually given in “number of writes” which also includes erase cycles if present. Older flash had lower limits than newer flash, originally the limit was around 100 cycles! Sonos uses much newer flash but you’d have to get the chip number and look up the specs to see what the limit is, also it will vary by chip supplier and even lot number.

Newer flash added a lot of nice stuff like wear leveling, bad block mapping and such to work around the failing memory issue but all hit the same limit, not enough good blocks left to give the system the memory it needs. Some designs error out, some just give you a ‘best effort’ and possibly corrupt data when read back out.

That is what I thought, and the three concurrent threads running are for Connect Amp issues on s2, arising from memory issues. But Corry from Sonos now says that these flash memory issues are predominantly on S1 only devices?!

This is too deep/muddy water for me, but I have learnt enough to freeze my S1 on 11.12, by disabling auto app updates on my phone and the idea is to stay on 11.12 forever, so this issue is not given a reason to arise on my all S1 system and prematurely cripple it.