So it's Boxing day, and I've just received a lovely big SONOS Play:1 speaker for Christmas. I set the speakers up and try to find them on my system. Nothing.
I do some research, trying to figure out why I can only play through SONOS app and verified programmes approved through the SONOS app.
Why something which clearly cost more than a few pretty pennies is essentially useless for anything other than playing music.
No live sound, no video sync, nothing but music through SONOS.
So the decrepit old speakers I have had since 2000 are essentially doing a better job than the basic model of SONOS. Not only this but my cheap shower bluetooth speaker I bought for my boyfriend (£5.99) can do what this supposedly amazing modern and high quality technology cannot. Which is play ANY sound off of my computer or phone that I want it to.
How is this a complicated concept and why, after literally years and years of community comments and wailings and clearly strong customer dissatisfaction haven't you developed a simple software fix for this? What, you can play my music at the highest sound level ever but can't handle a simple YouTube video? What kind of operation are you running? Please for the love of all things good and pure and sound related, just fix this issue. I don't think I've ever had more issue with such a supposedly 'amazing' product before. If Bluetooth is such a low quality sound how come they can do what you can't?
Why can't I just use you like any other speakers?
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I'm not the one to mention dissing, Dec did. As to why Sonos hasn't adopted a universal audio streaming/casting protocol? There isn't one yet, and unlike Bluetooth, the big players are creating their own for monetization in lieu of standardization. See my earlier posts for details. So until the industry standardizes and the monetization works itself out (a big if), it is Apple vs. Google, with third party hardware waiting it out. Look at what is happening to Spotify Connect if you want to see what happens when third parties are locked into one non-standard protocol. That isn't Sonos' fault.
And I can say with 100% conviction that going Open Source is the one single move which will cause me to abandon Sonos.
And I can say with 100% conviction that going Open Source is the one single move which will cause me to abandon Sonos.
Those here that work for Sonos are identified as such.
Two recent examples of innovation are the new 5 units that do something that no other speaker in the market does today - change the stereo image to taste between horizontal and vertical positioning, among other improvements to sound quality to the line up. Trueplay tuning customises the sound to better suit the room the speaker is placed in and this is something that is offered for all speakers made by Sonos in the past as well, going back to 2009. Quite innovative and a rare thing, that. You can say that this innovation is of no use to you, but jumping from there to say that Sonos does no innovation is a big jump.
Most of us that post here do so to help Sonos users make the most of their kit, to do all it can.
I've been using CC in parallel to my Sonos for the past few weeks and aside from the polish on the app, by which I mean the aesthetics of the application alone the Chromecast has done everything my Sonos set up does. I have not utilized higher sampling and bit rates but apparently the CC can also handle higher quality files than Sonos can (which is a hardware limitation of the Sonos). The CC app, while not aesthetically pleasing is much more functional and I imagine will improve rapidly since this is it's first iteration.
I have said elsewhere here that CC is the first real competition to Sonos, now that multi room is released. It isn't for me, but may well suit many. A lot of my music is heard via large shuffled NAS based playlists that I can stop/start instantly via the buttons on the units, even days after stopping play. With CC, I have to locate my phone, wake it up, invoke the CC app every time - doesn't work for me, all of that. And with Sonosnet, Sonos music play will probably be more stable with more up time compared to the WiFi based CC. I have also found the starting a stream via CC doesn't always happen at the first press of the necessary button, while Sonos always fires up instantly. For me therefore, the CC user interface is still clunky compared to that of Sonos, and I am not talking cosmetics.
With CC, as I have said elsewhere if you have followed all my posts(!), I have said that I don't advocate Sonos as fully as I did till CC was launched, but if I were spending today, I would still choose Sonos. But for some, CC is a much more viable alternative than any in the past till now.
By the way, the 5 units do offer line in. Always have.
This
"Trueplay tuning customises the sound to better suit the room the speaker is placed in and this is something that is offered for all speakers made by Sonos in the past as well, going back to 2009. Quite innovative and a rare thing, that. "
has been available on AV receivers by a lot of manufacturers for quite some time.
Which is about as relevant as saying, "cars have had automatic transmissions for a long time". How many multi-room speaker systems have it to date? Let's see... one,...
Room equalisation has been around for some time, you can only do the room that the speaker is in, so the use of this feature is exactly the same as for the AV receivers, no innovation required.
Generally people do this by ear to their own tastes, which can't be done on a Sonos system as there is no user available EQ of any worth.
Why would any one want to do it themselves? surely the audio experts know what they are doing right!
Well maybe I have specific hearing loss, or sensitivity....they don't know my particular situation. Truplay is good for a starting point but let me have control after that please.
Generally people do this by ear to their own tastes, which can't be done on a Sonos system as there is no user available EQ of any worth.
Why would any one want to do it themselves? surely the audio experts know what they are doing right!
Well maybe I have specific hearing loss, or sensitivity....they don't know my particular situation. Truplay is good for a starting point but let me have control after that please.
Trueplay is used to compensate for the speaker placement within a room of a certain character to give, I suggest, a flat response. It is then left to the producer/artist of the music to colo(u)r that flatness with their art as they would like to hear it.
Sonos could probably get stats off the users equipment that allow it, so that they can also do some analysis and come up with some standard setting to get close to the general room size etc, but it would only be statistical mean. Thats why we have Trueplay to tune to the specific room. So I suppose your statement is somewhat true but isn't the whole story, the same as the speaker is only a part of the system that reproduces the audio.
It would then be nice for some listener input to complete the mix that he/she desires.
I'm out of here I have some important audio testing to do:)
Sonos could probably get stats off the users equipment that allow it, so that they can also do some analysis and come up with some standard setting to get close to the general room size etc, but it would only be statistical mean. Thats why we have Trueplay to tune to the specific room. So I suppose your statement is somewhat true but isn't the whole story, the same as the speaker is only a part of the system that reproduces the audio.
It would then be nice for some listener input to complete the mix that he/she desires.
I'm out of here I have some important audio testing to do:)
Sonos is by no means perfect. And the use case for Sonos (or really wifi systems in general) may not fit the needs/desires for some people. But really, focus on what the Sonos ecosystem does, and not on what it does not do.
Exactly.
I believe part of the problem here is that wireless streaming audio remains quite complicated, diverse and in flux. It's not a static, commodity-like sector where all products essentially do the same thing, which consumers are familiar with and know what they're getting. This is not always appreciated by purchasers who fail to do a little research first to see if the product matches their requirements. And as an emerging product sector, consumers may not even know their requirements until they begin to kick the tyres a little.
Consumers knew what to expect from traditional speakers, and many are now familiar with and know what to expect from Bluetooth speakers. They may then assume that Sonos devices should behave similarly to those and can become frustrated when they discover they don't...
For example, the OP wrote: "Why can't I just use you like any other speakers", assuming that because a Play:1 looks like a traditional speaker that it should be able to behave like one, whereas we know it doesn't. Instead, it's a wireless, multi-room, streaming audio player & speaker, with different and immensely greater functionality than a traditional speaker.
However, its functionality is not a superset of a traditional speaker's features. In choosing to make its products excel at specific things (which they do) Sonos chose not to implement some other things, and it's these "some other things" that seem to repeatedly trip up some people, bifurcating Sonos users into the majority who love them and a minority who seem to hate them. Of course, if people first did some initial research they could avoid disappointment if they find their specific requirements aren't met, but I suspect most people in this category simply don't realise that they need to do any initial research. That may seem crazy to the more thorough or technically-minded, but that's how most consumers probably behave.
I think the biggest headache for Sonos is that Bluetooth speakers have now set expectations that you can send to them the audio from any app. But this app-centric approach is different to the device-centric approach the Sonos app imposes, and which comes as a surprise (and disappointment) to some. It's why I believe Google's Cast API is a game-changer, since it retains the app-centricity that people have come to expect. I'm very interested to see the path things take as wireless streaming audio evolves.
If you step back for a moment and look at the responses on this thread, what you begin to realize is really sad is the deflection and grasping of imaginary criticisms. You seem to defend things that nobody is even asking of Sonos. I'm not accusing Sonos of not innovating. Oh, right, they stuck some accelerometers in their speakers so you can flip them over. And they added Trueplay, which every AV receiver has had for years.
But you know what, I'm NOT complaining that Sonos isn't doing anything earth shattering. I'm not asking Sonos to WOW my socks off with the next big thing. And that's what really sucks about this thread. None of you are willing to admit that Sonos is broken. It's broken in the sense that it doesn't create a good, basic music system. That's IT. Just the basics, that's ALL we're asking for : give me a half decent application that can sort a library the way Winamp could do back in 1999. Give me the ability to select a folder to be catalogued so I can listen to it, instead of having to search for little work-arounds to listen to a simple friggin' podcast.
Sonos has to realize that if they want a good user experience. Wait, I'm sorrry. Did I say good? I meant Sonos has to realize that if it wants to allow its users to have a basic user experience it has to either work twice as hard to maintain a half decent application that can sort files and provide some basic level of DSP manipulation or it has to consider letting other applications stream to it's hardware. And before anyone gets defensive : This does NOT mean open sourcing anything. It means giving application developers the ability to put a 'Send To Chromecast' like button.
But you know what, I'm NOT complaining that Sonos isn't doing anything earth shattering. I'm not asking Sonos to WOW my socks off with the next big thing. And that's what really sucks about this thread. None of you are willing to admit that Sonos is broken. It's broken in the sense that it doesn't create a good, basic music system. That's IT. Just the basics, that's ALL we're asking for : give me a half decent application that can sort a library the way Winamp could do back in 1999. Give me the ability to select a folder to be catalogued so I can listen to it, instead of having to search for little work-arounds to listen to a simple friggin' podcast.
Sonos has to realize that if they want a good user experience. Wait, I'm sorrry. Did I say good? I meant Sonos has to realize that if it wants to allow its users to have a basic user experience it has to either work twice as hard to maintain a half decent application that can sort files and provide some basic level of DSP manipulation or it has to consider letting other applications stream to it's hardware. And before anyone gets defensive : This does NOT mean open sourcing anything. It means giving application developers the ability to put a 'Send To Chromecast' like button.
Really?
@jdag (lmftfy) Really.
+1 to that and only because it has me listening to a lot more excellent sounding music, owned and net streamed, than at any time before I bought Sonos. Nothing to do with "pride of ownership" - much of the hifi kit I went through for the 15 years before Sonos contained components that had much more of that psychological factor than what Sonos offers.
That mirrors my own experience. I got a bunch of Sonos kit 18 months ago, which I use primarily with a Google Play Music (GPM) subscription, and I've listened to more music (and discovered more new music courtesy of GPM discovery features) in those 18 months than in the previous 10 years. I did my research first and the Sonos and GPM combination, with a bit of TuneIn Radio thrown in, exactly meets my needs. The Sonos system itself has, per the cliche, been rock-solid reliable, akin to the reliability you get from domestic appliances that "just work" such that you don't really think about them. There are not many technology gadgets you can say that about.
Meh. Who cares what you think? The vast majority of people who post here buy it for what it is and are happy with their purchase; and because of that, they like to help other enthusiasts get the most out of their purchases. Then there are those who would rather go on a Ford forum and repeatedly post "Ford sucks!" rather than simply buy a Chevy and shut the hell up.
The fact that you think it's everything you've ever dreamed of, I don't really give a shit. But as an owner I complained. The inane excuses in this thread were just added entertainment that show that the world of fanboy love is still alive and well. Continue forth, minions!
The fact you see us as minions as opposed to seeing yourself as a contrarian minority who would rather complain about what something isn't instead of going out and buying any one of the other devices he holds up as superior says way more about you than any of the juvenile taunts you toss out. Sonos works for the vast majority because it works for the vast majority, not because we are senseless lemmings who are not as enlightened as you are to the achievement of sonic nirvana.
How do I know this?
Simple; you are still here bitching instead of out buying and enjoying your enlightened idea of sonic nirvana.
I rest my case.
I'm so stupid, Lol. Have you forgotten that millions of satisfied customers are laughing heartily at me and my friends? Millions!
I'm so stupid, Lol. Have you forgotten that millions of satisfied customers are laughing heartily at me and my friends? Millions!
I never said anything of the sort. I called you a contrarian minority and stated the reason the vast majority who post here disagree with you is for reasons other than your juvenile accusation of being "minions" or "fanboys". But keep it up, I always love it when one is so rattled they have resort to a desperate twisting of words.
You can do that wih LMS also .... and moreover you get coherent access to BBC listen again material, if that floats your boat.
You can do that wih LMS also .... and moreover you get coherent access to BBC listen again material, if that floats your boat.
Hey Castalla. Thanks for the posts. Is there LMS friendly hardware that you would recommend, and if not what kind of hoops do I have to jump to make Sonos friendly with an LMS set up? Any LMS controller applications for Android, Windows and/or Linux would you recommend? I can run the server on a dedicated box or on a NAS.
You need to install LMS on a PC (Windows, Linux or Mac), or on certain NAS models. This gives you a basic system. It will run on win7 to win10, various linux, MacOS. You can use a Raspi as a cheap server, or upwards.
You extend this by use of plugins (eg. Tunein, Deezer, etc.). Now for the Sonos integration - this is via special UPnP plugin - once it's set up (easy as there's a off-the-shelf config for Sonos), the Sonos device is seen as a squeezebox player by LMS.
Control is via a browser based GUI, or smartphone remotes such as iPeng, Squeeze Control, etc. Logitech Controller is free but only works on android 4 and below.
You can pair Sonos devices as one player - you can't synchronise.
The steepest learning curve is setting up LMS as you want it - you use the browser-based GUI both as the setup screen (on a PC) and as the initial controller.
You can switch back to Sonos control and services simply by changing the controller (Sonos vs. LMS).
A quick trial route is to install LMS on a Windows PC - explore .... The 'Sonos' plugin is called UPNPBridge - it's one of the standard LMS plugins.
Contact me by PM if you want further advice.
I guess I just don't get why people feel it's necessary to DEMAND that Sonos change to meet their, usually very narrow, requirement. Isn't it obvious to them that Sonos has considered their requirement, found that it won't help sales, or is simpy not a good fit for whatever reason? I sure don't go over to the Bose or whatever forums to demand that they improve their product to match Sonos, since I don't own any Bose products (and never will). Whatever.
Fully agree.
Whether it is on this forum, Reddit, MacRumors, or elsewhere, the vast vast vast majority of complaints against Sonos comes down to what it does NOT offer (secondarily that "Sonos is ridiculously priced", normally by people comparing Sonos to a $30 BT speaker).
People will pass over the virtues of wireless whole-home audio, stable wireless performance, excellent sound, well-made hardware, etc. Yet complain to no end about the fact that Sonos "purposely ignores its customers" by not offering bluetooth, Chromecast, AirPlay, etc.
Sonos does not support bluetooth, Chromecast, AirPlay, etc. because they choose not to. If that does not fit your intended use, then you should look to other solutions that align better. Hey, you can't use iOS apps on an Android phone, and you can't use Android apps on an iPhone. That's how it works.
Now I need to head outside to snow blow my driveway with my lawn mower. Oh wait, I can't do that because my John Deere tractor can't snow blow unless I "add a workaround". I guess I better complain on the John Deere boards!
You can do that wih LMS also .... and moreover you get coherent access to BBC listen again material, if that floats your boat.
Yes, I still have LMS installed on the NAS that hasn't been powered up in months. As I said before, it was a pain in the rear end compared to Sonos. I will never need to rip another CD to the NAS again, ever, thanks to online subscriptions. Yay! I've tried a LOT of appliances; none of them came close to Sonos for ease of use and access to the many services that I use, and with a single UI vs having to deal with dozens of disparate, usually less well-designed, UIs. I'm an IT geek at work, have been for 30 years. I'd prefer not to use a system at home that requires those geek skills, as the Squeezebox/LMS system did.
No one else meets MY NEEDS as well as Sonos.
Good.
It's great hardware but for me the BBC integration is primitive. It tool Sonos almost 9 months to get BBC hls streams working - no listen again until 2016!
LMS had a hls fix in less than 2 weeks - and now handles dash - plus full listen again access.
Different strokes .....
Markets work like this. Companies design products/services and bring them to market, believing that there is sufficient demand for what's on offer to make a profitable business at the list price. The general public looks at what the product has to offer, and if it offers them what they are looking for and they think it's worth the money, then they buy it. There are competing products that may be stronger in some areas and weaker than others, but customers make their choice. They don't have to open their wallet.
Companies that get this mostly wrong go bust. Those that get it mostly right flourish. Sonos appears to be flourishing. No product is going to be right for everyone. I'm not going to a**e around trying to make it do things it wasn't designed to do and it has never claimed to do. If others wish to do so, they are perfectly entitled to.
I don't get angry with Honda because my S2000 won't go off-road, so why would anyone get angry with Sonos because it doesn't do something it's never claimed to do?
Sonos does what it does brilliantly. They are constantly improving what's on offer and are undoubtedly better aware than any of us about which new features are likely to improve its appeal most. If it doesn't do enough of what you want, don't buy it. The market will decide if Sonos knows what it is doing
I'll sign off now and get on with ordering my second pair of gen2 Play:5 speakers. Amazing product.
Companies that get this mostly wrong go bust. Those that get it mostly right flourish. Sonos appears to be flourishing. No product is going to be right for everyone. I'm not going to a**e around trying to make it do things it wasn't designed to do and it has never claimed to do. If others wish to do so, they are perfectly entitled to.
I don't get angry with Honda because my S2000 won't go off-road, so why would anyone get angry with Sonos because it doesn't do something it's never claimed to do?
Sonos does what it does brilliantly. They are constantly improving what's on offer and are undoubtedly better aware than any of us about which new features are likely to improve its appeal most. If it doesn't do enough of what you want, don't buy it. The market will decide if Sonos knows what it is doing
I'll sign off now and get on with ordering my second pair of gen2 Play:5 speakers. Amazing product.
Sonos great for music have no problem, just no concern or knowledge/ they lack in video, countless problems with video and 5.1 solutions for soundbar blame all other components constantly rather than trying to solve customers problems and concerns, and yes I realize some televisions don't output 5.1 dolby but more and more do, they tell you to call sony,samsung, lg toshiba, or direct tv or dish network and make sure you have proper cables also or tell you you need countless adapters or other work arounds all the previously mentioned are claimed to have incorrect 5.1 support. Really everyone is wrong you are right, hardly. But thats fine with me if you didn't totally mislead the way you advertise this sonos soundbar for video and it don't work except for pcm stereo which is not acceptable for the cost. Quit lying to customers and tell them the truth this is for audio and streaming music and listening to radio stations. May be on the wrong forum but don't care. Most customer don't realize it will take an additional 3 to 5 hundred dollars to get this soundbar to work properly with 5.1 dolby digital. Shame on you Sonos.
Thanks, Ken...completely agree.
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+26
I think we've gotten quite off topic in this thread, but I took a look at your past ticket with our support team and noticed that you stopped responding there and it was closed just a week or so ago. I saw you're having audio cutouts with your Dish sending Dolby Digital to your TV, but I didn't notice if you have trouble with Dolby Digital from any other source through the TV. Do you have any other device capable of outputting Dolby Digital to the PLAYBAR? If so, give that a test and see how it goes.
We'd be happy to work with you more to get you just as happy with your PLAYBAR as so many other owners are. I'd encourage you to reply back to that incident, which will reopen it, and check in with the technician. If you haven't yet spoken with your Dish provider, that'd be a really good step too.
I understand it's frustrating when things don't work right or any issues develop, but we're here to help with that and are happy to keep working with you.
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