Hey Sonos Engineers!
I know this has been touched upon. I previously submitted this request to support and they encouraged me to share here to keep the conversation going.
Is there any chance we could implement a soft switch for line-in audio to bypass the computer for "delay disable" functionality.
I understand and appreciate the reason for the delay.
However, I'm running turntables through a mixer and into the line-in of the PLAY:5. Can't teach my son to mix records with that delay, and since we're set-up in a communal space, my wife is not too keen on bringing out the old mix monitors. Can you dig it?
Can we figure out a way to manually disable the delay on an individual speaker basis?
Otherwise love the gear!
Thanks!
Here's quote from customer support. Hope it isn't too heavy handed or out of school to post:
"I'm not on the development team, but I personally think that it wouldn't be too hard to implement some kind of soft switch to bypass the computer altogether and pipe line-in audio directly to the amplifiers (something like a computer-controlled solid state IC relay network)."
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"Solving the problem" with the current Sonos hardware requires ignoring the laws of physics.
dude. local mode. nothing fancy.
"Solving the problem" with the current Sonos hardware requires ignoring the laws of physics. Do you suggest Sonos should be pursuing the goal of overturning the laws of physics in order to address a particular group of customers?
As to having a big sign, can you point to any company that openly advertises all the things their products cannot do? Even so, Sonos clearly states the delay exists on their Line-In FAQ page.
You are correct. They don't care about live music producers because their speakers simply were not designed for live music producers. There are plenty of other purpose specific speakers, amps and/or PAs out there designed for live performance, why would one waste their time on one that is not even designed for that purpose?
i don’t think there’s any high-end speakers that don’t have low-latency options.
they don’t have that big sign saying ‘hey theres a delay so you can’t even sing karaoke’
not trying to argue with you, cuz clearly you only care about your use case instead of all the customers they are trying to sell their products to.
i have great speakers for my dj equipments. im just asking sonos that if i dropped over 2k on their products can they at least try to solve a problem that a group of their customers have.
my friends love my sonos. but all of them also said it sucks that i can’t hook it up with my equipment so i can use them for my house party. you lose potential customers right there.
and it’s 2020 you thought they would solve this simple problem by now. they just don’t give a damn about the live music producers.
i love your speakers sonos but this delay thing sucks.
your engineers can’t handle local mode?
we can just have both speakers setup in local modes and hook it up with left and right channel as stereo, i don’t think this is too much to ask
You are correct. They don't care about live music producers because their speakers simply were not designed for live music producers. There are plenty of other purpose specific speakers, amps and/or PAs out there designed for live performance, why would one waste their time on one that is not even designed for that purpose?
and it’s 2020 you thought they would solve this simple problem by now. they just don’t give a damn about the live music producers.
i love your speakers sonos but this delay thing sucks.
your engineers can’t handle local mode?
we can just have both speakers setup in local modes and hook it up with left and right channel as stereo, i don’t think this is too much to ask
With Sonos stopping the availability of updates for products like the Gen 1 Play 5 starting in May 2020, this line-in delay is even more of a nuisance. It would be nice to pull it from use as a streaming speaker and use it for something like a TV or computer speaker but the delay prevents this possibility. I just bought our Play 5 Gen 1 five years ago and it is already antiquated it seems...
I like your comparison with the horse trailer, so why have they put a trailer hook on the Ferrari, which you cannot use propperly?
They haven’t. You mistook a buffered for multi-room line input as a trailer hitch. In short, Sonos in no way advertises itself as a real time performance type speaker. Nowhere does it say it is suitable for DJ’ing, PA, or live music. So not only does the Ferrari not have a trailer hitch, nowhere in the Ferrari literature does it say a trailer can be pulled.
I like your comparison with the horse trailer, so why have they put a trailer hook on the Ferrari, which you cannot use propperly?
Yes, it is correct that the line in latency can not be reduced at this point in time.
Not knowing the code base, versus the underlying design for synchronized whole home music, which is the basis of the existence of Sonos, I don’t know how difficult such a change would be. I do know that if I was looking for a direct pass through speaker, Sonos would not be on my list of possibilities, similar to how I wouldn’t pull a horse trailer with a Ferrari automobile. There are, as has been said many times in these forums, horses for courses.
so is it correct that Sonos cannot work with line-in without any latency?
I have several sonos products and really like them and have been really frustrated last week when I tried to connect it to my imac as a speaker with line-in connection, but the latency is super frustrating and makes the sonos play 5 useless as a product.
how hard can it be to update the app so it would be possible to adjust the latency settings or take away the latency if you use line-in
I’ll add another request for the low latency line-in option. My use case is similar to a previous poster - small home office with line in from PC. My preference is for my Sonos to handle both “business and pleasure” - streaming music normally while I work (latency unimportant), and as PC speakers for gaming/youtube after hours (require low latency). Ideal setup would be line-in to one play 5 that links with another play 5 and sub in stereo pair configuration over low latency 5GHz dedicated network link similar to Playbar/surrounds. It is frustrating to find out after purchase that the line-in delay makes this less than optimal as a solution.
To quote Sonos marketing:
“Everything works together, and Sonos works with all your favourite services so you can listen to what you want, where you want, how you want.”
Perhaps this should read:
“Everything works together, and Sonos works with all your favourite services so you can listen to what you want, where you want, how you want - unless you want to use Sonos for PC gaming, Youtube streaming, DJ turntables, electronic drums….”
Sonos is not really the flexible solution it claims to be in marketing. It is a very reliable and stable experience within the bounds of its core use case - wireless multiroom streaming - but is too rigid in its design to be the complete home solution claimed in the marketing.
As a former 70s disco DJ I too would love to live mix using Sonos wi fi system. The delay makes that impossible. I believe the answer simply is for Sonos to update it’s software to incorporate Bluetooth (in addition to the wi fi and hired wired options). Alternatively, a streaming app, such as DJ Algorridm could possibly explore a software update as well to be compatible with So is). I think the better answer is for Sonos to take the step to enable Bluetooth as does Bose and practically every one of Sonos wireless audio competitors.
Kudos otherwise to Sonos for great audio performance
Sonos does support Bluetooth, on the Move. One does actually need to have the requisite hardware, which the other players lack.
But regular Bluetooth wouldn’t help your use case. The default SBC codec typically has 100+ms of latency.
Sonos simply isn’t designed for DJing.
As a former 70s disco DJ I too would love to live mix using Sonos wi fi system. The delay makes that impossible. I believe the answer simply is for Sonos to update it’s software to incorporate Bluetooth (in addition to the wi fi and hired wired options). Alternatively, a streaming app, such as DJ Algorridm could possibly explore a software update as well to be compatible with So is). I think the better answer is for Sonos to take the step to enable Bluetooth as does Bose and practically every one of Sonos wireless audio competitors.
Kudos otherwise to Sonos for great audio performance
This is definitely a feature I would love to see. Line others would love to use my Play5 line in for mixing.
- is this a maximum latency or is this latency always present?
Minimum actually. There's an adjustment which can add to this figure if required.
I’m thinking about using the suggested method of converting the analog rca signal from my mixer to digital optical and put that into the sonos playbar. I read this introduces a 30 ms latency. I have a few questions about your experiences:
- is this a maximum latency or is this latency always present?
- it feels like this latency is noticeable and would still make it difficult to beatmatch; what are everybody’s experiences with this so far?
I use the PCs output currently to do this. The reason I'd like the 5 to do it, is so i can use it in another room instead. I'd rather buy a 5 for the next room, not another beam
You could try feeding your DJ controller into a converter from Analogue to optical then use the optical adapter on the beam. Not sure what the delay would be using that method.
I'm going to add another bump to say I'd like this. For the same reasons as the OP. I'm also going to give my 2 cents.
I know SONOS likely won't do this, so I'm looking at other solutions. But I figured, I can request it.
I own a SONOS beam, and when i use it with the line in from the TV it stays almost perfectly in sync. Or at least close enough for me. If there is a 30 ms delay, I hardly notice it, and it is WAY better than the 70 ms delay on the rest of my speakers. However, the beam stays out of sync from the rest of the house when using the line in, because the rest of the house is on that 70ms delay. All of this makes sense so far to me. The delay to keep the house in sync is perfectly acceptable.
I think the ask, is that the play 5 be able to, locally, by itself, when not pushing out to the rest of the house, be able to have a reduced delay for a standalone mode. I would buy a play:5 tomorrow if that were the case. As it is, I have a dj controller that is hooked up to some really really terrible, old computer speakers. But there is no delay on them. All of the rest of my house speakers are Sonos.
The beam works with little delay. This same functionality for the play:5 would be great. If it gets grouped with other speakers, it can switch to the 70 ms delay. That would be fine by me. When my beam is grouped with other speakers, it shares their delay and that makes sense.
This would be no more confusing to consumers than it currently is, because as it currently stands, the average consumer doesn't deal with this issue. And when they do, as this thread shows, they run into confusion. This would eliminate some of that confusion, and to the rest of the people that don't want this functionality, it simply would not affect them.
I wonder if I can figure out a way to feed my DJ controller into the beam. Does anyone know how well that solution may work?
I know SONOS likely won't do this, so I'm looking at other solutions. But I figured, I can request it.
I own a SONOS beam, and when i use it with the line in from the TV it stays almost perfectly in sync. Or at least close enough for me. If there is a 30 ms delay, I hardly notice it, and it is WAY better than the 70 ms delay on the rest of my speakers. However, the beam stays out of sync from the rest of the house when using the line in, because the rest of the house is on that 70ms delay. All of this makes sense so far to me. The delay to keep the house in sync is perfectly acceptable.
I think the ask, is that the play 5 be able to, locally, by itself, when not pushing out to the rest of the house, be able to have a reduced delay for a standalone mode. I would buy a play:5 tomorrow if that were the case. As it is, I have a dj controller that is hooked up to some really really terrible, old computer speakers. But there is no delay on them. All of the rest of my house speakers are Sonos.
The beam works with little delay. This same functionality for the play:5 would be great. If it gets grouped with other speakers, it can switch to the 70 ms delay. That would be fine by me. When my beam is grouped with other speakers, it shares their delay and that makes sense.
This would be no more confusing to consumers than it currently is, because as it currently stands, the average consumer doesn't deal with this issue. And when they do, as this thread shows, they run into confusion. This would eliminate some of that confusion, and to the rest of the people that don't want this functionality, it simply would not affect them.
I wonder if I can figure out a way to feed my DJ controller into the beam. Does anyone know how well that solution may work?
I'd love a low latency aux mode! I have synths and other electronic music equipment that I'd love to be able to use with my Play:5
It's never going to happen. It is such a niche feature for a limited audience and would require so much work that it's never going to reach anywhere near the top of the Sonos to do list.
The same answer was given when this thread started a few years back and nothing will change that unfortunately.
The same answer was given when this thread started a few years back and nothing will change that unfortunately.
Count me in on this issue - it sucks!
#MeToo, even if I understand Sonos not wanting to address this advanced corner case. Perhaps a Sonos "jailbreak" will make it possible one day.
One lip-sync workaround when watching movies is to use the negative audio delay setting of the media player, when available. E.g. VLC and Kodi have such a feature on TV boxes.
One lip-sync workaround when watching movies is to use the negative audio delay setting of the media player, when available. E.g. VLC and Kodi have such a feature on TV boxes.
Im going to add a Me Too on this one. I want to be able to use my Play:5 with my mixer but the audio delay is a problem when mixing tracks. No delay option would be great.
I solved the problem for myself. I put a cheap delay on the audio out of my pre-amp to my 4-Amp Linn system and delayed it for 70 MS. The Motron RTS 200c Radio/TV Sync ($199 at Amazon). Now I control my Play 5 pair in the Dining Room and my Living Room Linn system with my iPhone Airplay. Separate volume control from my pocket.
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