Im currently using my iMac PC as a source using its headphone out to line in on my sonos amp - and am able to get up to a maximum 96khz if im correct?
Can I add a dac such as the iFi Zen DAC to enable me to get higher than 96khz ?
Imac/Zen/dac/Sonos amp/B&W passive speakers
Ken
It looks like there are a few misconceptions here.
The Amp accepts an analog Line-In. Internally Sonos digitises this at 44.1kHz sampling rate. This is able to encode audio frequencies up to 22.05kHz, i.e. beyond the range of human hearing.
So:
If, as suggested, optimum fidelity is the aim then running the files through a DA converter attached to the iMac then back through an AD converter is the last thing one should contemplate.
Abandon the idea of using Line-In.
Simply do a one-time down-conversion of the files to 24/48 ALAC on the iMac, then index them into the Sonos library in the conventional way. The benefits of any careful remastering of the files will be preserved.
Why on earth would anyone be interested in the Amp accepting 96kHz, when only animals such as cats, mice and bats are able to hear it?
And rats? Someone may have a requirement for a multi zone ultra sonic rodent repellent that could also be used to play music. 
SONOS is a music playing system, not a music storage system. SONOS will play music stored on a PC, Mac, an external hard drive, dozens of online music services, Airplay 2, and music stored on an Android. For music files stored on a PC, Mac, or external hard drive (Known as a NAS [Network Attached Storage]) SONOS builds a music library index that is stored on the SONOS players. Storing the index on SONOS players improves system features and response time as the system operator requests play.
Of course, if files are stored on a PC or Mac, one is limited to the bit rates supported by the SONOS hardware. Similar for the online music services. If you believe that bit rates higher than 44.1Kbps are better, then storing the high bit rate file on the PC or Mac and using an external DAC is a better approach.
By the way, 576 is used in some studios for their recordings. The really, really serious Purist should seek these, but I have not seen any of these files in commercial distribution.
Much like wine testing events, the elite are not willing to accept the outcome when the boxed wine in a fancy glass wins the contest, the audio elite will always consider 44.1 less than worthy, even when they cannot figure out which glass has 192 or which glass has 44.1 simply by listening.
Bizarrely Sonos have responded to me refusing to specify what the line in’s maximum sample rate is...
Perhaps that’s because, as we’ve been reiterating, the Line-In interface doesn’t have a sample rate. It’s analog.
Once again, internally Sonos digitises Line-In into 16/44 WAV (for Uncompressed Line-In operation). Some newer devices may use 16/48 WAV instead, but in any event the ADC sample rate won’t exceed 48kHz.
I’m sorry but this is a senseless debate. There appears to be a lack of understanding of how digital audio works, or of why chewing up precious network bandwidth to ship around inaudible ultrasonics makes no sense whatsoever, or maybe of both.
“external DACs are a thing for a reason”. If there is a reason, it is that one DAC may perform better than another one if it replaces it in the process of getting from digital data packets to music you can hear. Some may dispute this, and my personal opinion is that in many cases the difference ‘heard’ is caused by expectation bias. But let’s go with it for a moment.
I have a set up that includes a Connect and HiFi. I use digital out from the Connect into a Cyrus DAC/pre-amp. So the Connect’s DAC is replaced by the Cyrus one. This, to me has at least the potential to improve the sound.
But this thread is talking about sample rates etc on a conversion that enters the Sonos system as an analog signal. This still seems nonsensical to me.
A chain that includes a 96/192kHz DAC, a 44.1kHz ADC and a 44.1kHz DAC doesn’t strike me as the most unsullied way to go, but each to their own.
Some people swear by vinyl and tube amps, which each adulterate the sound in their own special ways.
Playing local files, or streaming from an online source, requires a decode. After decode, the audio would be in PCM, the same as the output of a Line-In ADC. If the latter sounds ‘better’ then it calls into question the quality of the original content encoding (or, in the case of local files, of any CD ripping).
FWIW adding an extra analog to digital (or DA) conversion can only degrade the sound. It’s impossible to improve it, unless of course there a subjective preference for any ‘colour’ (distortion, noise) introduced.
Sorry I meant sampling rate of 96khz - im sure i read somewhere that the amp can accept 96khz through its line in? or it may have been a dream..
A pity the iMac doesn’t possess a HDMI arc output.. sigh.
Sorry I meant sampling rate of 96khz - im sure i read somewhere that the amp can accept 96khz through its line in? or it may have been a dream..
A pity the iMac doesn’t possess a HDMI arc output.. sigh.
Since the Line-In is analog, it can not accept anything digital at all, regardless of sample rate.
But it wouldn’t be digital would it if the 3rd party dac has already converted it to analogue ?
As I say, the analog (not digital) Line-In has an effective frequency response up to 22.05klHz, as it is then sampled at 44.1kHz. This is higher than human hearing can go.
Why on earth would anyone be interested in the Amp accepting 96kHz, when only animals such as cats, mice and bats are able to hear it?
Why on earth would anyone be interested in the Amp accepting 96kHz, when only animals such as cats, mice and bats are able to hear it?
Wow.. I was expecting a response with a cat mouse or a bat but not within the 1st hr...
But it wouldn’t be digital would it if the 3rd party dac has already converted it to analogue ?
It also wouldn’t be “higher than 96 kHz” which is what the original question was asking.
On a side note, if you play so-called “high resolution” audio through the Sonos Line-in, it will sound exactly the same at 96 kHz as it does at 44.1 kHz, as every properly conducted double blind test has shown. You simply aren’t going to hear anything above a sampling rate of 40 kHz (far less if you are not a teenager). However, this begs to ask why you wouldn’t bypass all the extra processing by simply down-sampling the “high resolution” audio to strip out the snake oil in the first place?
And then it appeared, just like that… snake oil...
And then it appeared, just like that… snake oil...
Do you have actual objective proof it’s not, or are you just here to lob bombs? If the latter, I’ll bow out. I’d rather not deal with the audio equivalent of flat earthers.
And then it appeared, just like that… snake oil...
Do you have actual objective proof it’s not, or are you just here to lob bombs? If the latter, I’ll bow out. I’d rather not deal with the audio equivalent of flat earthers.
Yes Jog on - I haven’t got 7 years playing internet tennis with you or your chums - im not interested in your thoughts on snake oil ideologies
KB29R,
You can plug any DAC output into the analog inputs to AMP, even 576kHz if you can find a DAC that supports this bit rate, but it will be difficult to find 576kHz source material at this point in time.
Yes Jog on - I haven’t got 7 years playing internet tennis with you or your chums - im not interested in your thoughts on snake oil ideologies
Most flat earthers avoid discussing any concept of a spherical earth too. Can't say I blame them.
On the flat earth thing - I recently discovered that this is still a fervently held belief in THIS century including explanations/rebuttals for all the reasons supplied to establish that the earth is a not a flat disc.
KB29R,
You can plug any DAC output into the analog inputs to AMP, even 576kHz if you can find a DAC that supports this bit rate, but it will be difficult to find 576kHz source material at this point in time.
576?? Just the odd recordings from quobuz 24/192 would be nice - including Tidals MQA... the dac in question is this: https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/ifi-zen-dac
I would like to consider another aspect of this question. Is this method being used to play music files stored on the Mac? If so, why? Rather than set up a Sonos music library?
SONOS is a music playing system, not a music storage system. SONOS will play music stored on a PC, Mac, an external hard drive, dozens of online music services, Airplay 2, and music stored on an Android. For music files stored on a PC, Mac, or external hard drive (Known as a NAS [Network Attached Storage]) SONOS builds a music library index that is stored on the SONOS players. Storing the index on SONOS players improves system features and response time as the system operator requests play.
Of course, if files are stored on a PC or Mac, one is limited to the bit rates supported by the SONOS hardware. Similar for the the music services. If you believe that bit rates higher than 44.1Kbps are better, then storing the high bit rate file on the PC or Mac and using an external DAC is a better approach.
By the way, 576 is used in some studios for their recordings. The really, really serious Purist should seek these, but I have not seen any of these files in commercial distribution.
Much like wine testing events, the elite are not willing to accept the outcome when the boxed wine in a fancy glass wins the contest, the audio elite will always consider 44.1 less than worthy, even when they cannot figure out which glass has 192 or which glass has 44.1 simply by listening.
I have Hi Res files stored on my Mac and Subscribe to Qobuz hence the external Dac question
Bizarrely Sonos have responded to me refusing to specify what the line in’s maximum sample rate is...
Bizarrely Sonos have responded to me refusing to specify what the line in’s maximum sample rate is...
Perhaps that’s because, as we’ve been reiterating, the Line-In interface doesn’t have a sample rate. It’s analog.
Once again, internally Sonos digitises Line-In into 16/44 WAV (for Uncompressed Line-In operation).
Those links are not specific in regards to the Line Ins and if the line in didn’t have a sample rate then why would Sonos say that they are unwilling to provide that information to the public?
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