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DTS-X Support with S2 Platform

  • 6 October 2020
  • 35 replies
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P
Userlevel 1

Sonos likes to hear what people want, so I’m asking the question (Yet again?). When will Sonos finally support DTS decoding for the soundbars? Seems to me that there appears to be a pretty reasonable user base (& lost sales) that is continually asking for this. Given the Arc has now been released, it would be an opportune time to support these codecs, even if they user has to pay a little more for the licensing cost involved (Via the Sonos App).

 

Pretty sure its not easy to transcode DTS:X tracks to Dolby? (DTS is a different story)

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Best answer by melvimbe 7 October 2020, 15:41

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G
Userlevel 7

It appears that support is only for regular lossy DTS and not lossless DTS -HD and DTS-X.

Yikes.  I am wondering why even bother then?  We already have LPCM.  Why go to the trouble of licensing and modifying software for DTS but not supporting DTS-HD and DTS:X?

I believe Sonos’ goal, at least for now, is to get basic DTS support on ALL of their home theater products. Remember, DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS:X are lossless and only supported over eARC. The Playbar and Playbase are only equipped with optical and the Beam (Gen 1) and Amp are only equipped with HDMI ARC. Lossy DTS Digital Surround support will be compatible with all of Sonos’ home theater products. Hopefully this is just the first step to eventually supporting lossless DTS formats on the Arc and Beam (Gen 2).

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
Stanley_4
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Maybe a middle road, Sonos could allow users that wish to buy one to download a DTS decoder to their Sonos device?

A quick look showed downloadable decoders for other systems.

Snorf
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@darkonex In my opinion, I still believe your best option would be the Arcana. The UB820 is a fantastic UHD player, and one of the best features of the player, in this particular situation, is that it has separate settings for Dolby audio and DTS audio whereas the other players don’t. With the other players, you would have to change the audio setting depending on whether the disc you are watching has Dolby audio or DTS audio. With the UB820, you never have to change the settings.

And the Arcana is a really small device at 4” x 2.25” x 1”. So it wouldn’t add much more to your many devices. And the Arcana has already been proven to work with LG TVs and the UB820.

I have an LG GX and a PS5 which I’ll be using as a 4K player as well. I haven’t bought the Sonos Arc yet but I really want to due to its simplicity of use. Until today though, I was unaware that my GX doesn’t have a DTS encoding feature. I’ve heard many people talk about the HDFury Arcana but it’s always in regards to Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital+ / DTS.

My question is this however, is this device able to specifically convert DTS:X to Dolby Atmos? The reason I’m asking this is because I don’t want to spend thousands of hard-earned euros just for regular surround sound, I want that 3D Surround Sound effect.

The XBOX one X or Series Xbox’s upmixes everyting to dolby atmos even if the content is not.

Would be really interesting to know what this means exactly.

Like - for a DTS:X UHD soundtrack, when you select “Bitstream → Dolby Atmos”, I’m assuming the Xbox cannot maintain and utilize the additional DTS:X-specific metadata to literally convert DTS:X to Dolby Atmos.  Rather, I’m guessing it takes the raw multichannel 7.1 LPCM data from the DTS:X track and does its best to simulate an Atmos effect.  Which is okay…but it’s just a bummer that AFAIK there is literally no way to get all the data from a DTS:X track to the Sonos Arc.

A
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As far as charging customers directly for the licensing cost, that creates other issues.  First, they would need to build an maintain that software sales system, which they don’t have.  And would the license be by devise or user?  If the user sells their speaker, does the license go with them?  Will people be insulted for the extra cost for DTS and still look to buy elsewhere?  If this is a viable model, why isn’t any other AV company doing it?.

 

Now that Sonos does indeed offer Subscription Services (Sonos Radio HD) it would be fairly reasonable to use that same platform to add DTS license by subscription. The terms of the license subscription structure can be similar to Sonos Radio HD.

A

I agree DTS support is needed for audiophiles not wanting full surround systems with multiple speakers and wires.

Anyone on the threads can argue that PCM audio is just as good as DTS. However, PCM 7.1 will never touch DTS-X.

PCM may not be compressed but is still lossy and for superior sound systems able to perform lossless audio files are needed. DTS-X is loseless, but can still operate in a lossy format that is found in it's programming. The special part of DTS-X is it can decode higher bitrate files than Atmos while utilizing spacial object audio.

It's an argument of saying PCM 7.1 is like the standard production line McLaren Senna while DTS-X is like the custom 65 Hoonicorn Mustang. No matter how much you argue that McLaren is getting left in the dust off the line.

*Yes there is a video of Ken Block smoking a McLaren Senna off the line.

K
Userlevel 7
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I would have though if you pay for DTS it would stay with that unit when you sell it on (just like any other HT kit).

I've come across this as well, I've just left ours in Stereo for the most part as at least sound stays on when I'm not there to sort it out!.

Samsung do Blu Ray  players that downmix to Dolby 5.1 from DTS but don't know if any deal with DTS-X?. Plus unfortunately they have discontinued their Blu Ray line.

J
Userlevel 4
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Here's another bit of welcome news: Sonos says it will roll out support for DTS surround later this year for all soundbars that are on its S2 platform. That extends back to products like the Playbar and Playbase, so quite a few devices will be gaining the added functionality.21 hours ago

 

Sonos announces second-gen Beam soundbar with Dolby Atmos - The Verge

https://www.theverge.com › sonos-beam-2-atmos-soundb.


“Sonos says it will roll out support for DTS surround later this year for all soundbars that are on its S2 platform. That extends back to products like the Playbar and Playbase, so quite a few devices will be gaining the added functionality. Sonos is also jumping on board with high-resolution audio and Dolby Atmos music streaming. The company says it’ll support both of those features from Amazon Music in the coming months; no word on Apple Music, though.”

I hope that is accurate.  I have been pretty content with LPCM from my blu-rays, but would much rather be able to fully enjoy DTS:X on the 50 or so discs I have that are encoded with it.  And I have hundreds of blu-rays encoded in DTS-HD 5.1 or 7.1.  If we do get native support for DTS, it would be interesting to see how the volume levels will compare to LPCM.

And more hi-res audio support would be great as well, although I suspect the benefits for me are probably going to be less noticeable.

HT: Arc + Era 300s + Subs (G3/G2) + Sony A80L + Sony UBP-X800M2
P
Userlevel 1

That doesn’t quite fully make sense to me. There are workarounds to get DTS working currently (Re-encode to Dolby Digital). This doesn’t exist at all for DTS:X
 

Hopefully more to come and this is just the start.

S

I am pleased Sonos appears to be listening to its customers. I am a relatively new owner of Sonos arc, sub, and sl one surroundswho has struggled to get decent sound from my 4K DTS encoded blu rays. This is definitely a step in the right direction.

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

Hasn’t this dead horse been beaten enough already?

For reasons never clearly explained, Sonos decided way back in the Playbar days to not support DTS, and that decision isn’t likely to change.

Its interesting that newer TVs are starting to drop support for DTS pass-through for some reason.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
A
Userlevel 3
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Hasn’t this dead horse been beaten enough already?

For reasons never clearly explained, Sonos decided way back in the Playbar days to not support DTS, and that decision isn’t likely to change.

Its interesting that newer TVs are starting to drop support for DTS pass-through for some reason.


Samsung and LG 2020 TV offerings dont have DTS, which means they don’t have DTS license to pass DTS audio.

Netflix and Amazon Prime don’t stream any of their content using DTS audio.

C

I think its important that people voice their concerns with lack of DTS support to Sonos, even if its as you say, beating a dead horse. The majority of Blu-Ray releases are DTS-HD In some form, And while Atmos is the new upcomer on 4k discs, it seems silly to not support a lossless codec which is so widespread. Personally, if it was just a matter of paying for a licensing decode fee, id gladly do so.

While I enjoy my Sonos home theater setup immensely, its lack of DTS support is certainly the thing which has put a large target on its head for eventual replacement.

melvimbe

Sonos likes to hear what people want, so I’m asking the question (Yet again?). When will Sonos finally support DTS decoding for the soundbars?

 

 

Sonos will likely note your request, but they have never said they would provide DTS and surely would not provide a date for that without a public annoucement first.  You aren’t going to get Sonos to give you that information by asking here….again, if it’s even in their plans.

 

 

Seems to me that there appears to be a pretty reasonable user base (& lost sales) that is continually asking for this. Given the Arc has now been released, it would be an opportune time to support these codecs, even if they user has to pay a little more for the licensing cost involved (Via the Sonos App).

 

 

Sonos surely has a better idea than we do about how many customers are lost from lack of DTS support.  What that is, it does seem as if the number of DTS users is going down rather than up, given the rise of streaming services.  As far as charging customers directly for the licensing cost, that creates other issues.  First, they would need to build an maintain that software sales system, which they don’t have.  And would the license be by devise or user?  If the user sells their speaker, does the license go with them?  Will people be insulted for the extra cost for DTS and still look to buy elsewhere?  If this is a viable model, why isn’t any other AV company doing it?

 

I’m not against DTS personally, don’t really care.  I just don’t think we are going to see it happen unless there is significantly more use of DTS.

 

 

Danny
Snorf
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The thing is, I (and I’m sure others as well) would be totally willing to pay an additional per-user license fee for DTS support, which could offset the development costs.

Generalzod
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@darkonex In my opinion, I still believe your best option would be the Arcana. The UB820 is a fantastic UHD player, and one of the best features of the player, in this particular situation, is that it has separate settings for Dolby audio and DTS audio whereas the other players don’t. With the other players, you would have to change the audio setting depending on whether the disc you are watching has Dolby audio or DTS audio. With the UB820, you never have to change the settings.

And the Arcana is a really small device at 4” x 2.25” x 1”. So it wouldn’t add much more to your many devices. And the Arcana has already been proven to work with LG TVs and the UB820.

I have an LG GX and a PS5 which I’ll be using as a 4K player as well. I haven’t bought the Sonos Arc yet but I really want to due to its simplicity of use. Until today though, I was unaware that my GX doesn’t have a DTS encoding feature. I’ve heard many people talk about the HDFury Arcana but it’s always in regards to Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital+ / DTS.

My question is this however, is this device able to specifically convert DTS:X to Dolby Atmos? The reason I’m asking this is because I don’t want to spend thousands of hard-earned euros just for regular surround sound, I want that 3D Surround Sound effect.

The XBOX one X or Series Xbox’s upmixes everyting to dolby atmos even if the content is not.

Generalzod
Userlevel 2
Badge +3

Here's another bit of welcome news: Sonos says it will roll out support for DTS surround later this year for all soundbars that are on its S2 platform. That extends back to products like the Playbar and Playbase, so quite a few devices will be gaining the added functionality.21 hours ago

 

Sonos announces second-gen Beam soundbar with Dolby Atmos - The Verge

https://www.theverge.com › sonos-beam-2-atmos-soundb.

Generalzod
Userlevel 2
Badge +3

Here is another article:

 

The addition of an eARC HDMI socket is one of the major improvements of the Sonos Beam Gen 2, meaning that the soundbar will be able to accept higher-quality, higher-bitrate audio (such as Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio) directly from a TV.

 

https://www.whathifi.com/au/advice/sonos-beam-gen-2-everything-you-need-to-know-about-sonos-new-dolby-atmos-soundbar

Generalzod
Userlevel 2
Badge +3

 

Here's another bit of welcome news: Sonos says it will roll out support for DTS surround later this year for all soundbars that are on its S2 platform. That extends back to products like the Playbar and Playbase, so quite a few devices will be gaining the added functionality.21 hours ago

 

Sonos announces second-gen Beam soundbar with Dolby Atmos - The Verge

https://www.theverge.com › sonos-beam-2-atmos-soundb.


“Sonos says it will roll out support for DTS surround later this year for all soundbars that are on its S2 platform. That extends back to products like the Playbar and Playbase, so quite a few devices will be gaining the added functionality. Sonos is also jumping on board with high-resolution audio and Dolby Atmos music streaming. The company says it’ll support both of those features from Amazon Music in the coming months; no word on Apple Music, though.”

I hope that is accurate.  I have been pretty content with LPCM from my blu-rays, but would much rather be able to fully enjoy DTS:X on the 50 or so discs I have that are encoded with it.  And I have hundreds of blu-rays encoded in DTS-HD 5.1 or 7.1.  If we do get native support for DTS, it would be interesting to see how the volume levels will compare to LPCM.

And more hi-res audio support would be great as well, although I suspect the benefits for me are probably going to be less noticeable.

You’ll be definately getting a boost in sound quality...

G
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It appears that support is only for regular lossy DTS and not lossless DTS -HD and DTS-X.

J
Userlevel 4
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It appears that support is only for regular lossy DTS and not lossless DTS -HD and DTS-X.

Yikes.  I am wondering why even bother then?  We already have LPCM.  Why go to the trouble of licensing and modifying software for DTS but not supporting DTS-HD and DTS:X?

HT: Arc + Era 300s + Subs (G3/G2) + Sony A80L + Sony UBP-X800M2
Generalzod
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It appears that support is only for regular lossy DTS and not lossless DTS -HD and DTS-X.

Better than nothing I guess. After all it took long just just to get normal DTS….

bockersjv
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Personally this is great news.  I have a load of Music BlueRay DVS that have a 5.1 mix of an album but every one is in DTS.  Will be nice on my Playbase to hear these at last.

Snorf
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Would be great if they could let us know if this was part of a “roadmap” to support lossless formats.  I’m certainly happy they have base DTS support but I don’t see how that helps me on anything except the last few old DVDs in my collection; all my non-Dolby Blurays (4k or not) are DTS-HD or in rare cases DTS-X.  Is there a difference in licensing cost if they only pay for the DTS format?  Otherwise I don’t really get it.

J
Userlevel 4
Badge +6

DTS compatibility would be useful for those (few) folks who have a high-end 2021 sony tv that incorporates its Bravia Core streaming service, which uses the DTS format.  But that doesn't do much for me. 😂

HT: Arc + Era 300s + Subs (G3/G2) + Sony A80L + Sony UBP-X800M2
S
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

Would be great if they could let us know if this was part of a “roadmap” to support lossless formats.  I’m certainly happy they have base DTS support but I don’t see how that helps me on anything except the last few old DVDs in my collection; all my non-Dolby Blurays (4k or not) are DTS-HD or in rare cases DTS-X.  Is there a difference in licensing cost if they only pay for the DTS format?  Otherwise I don’t really get it.

My understanding is that even a DTS-HD/X track will play a ‘base' DTS track instead so will help you not get silence (if that's what you were getting instead).

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