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I think I've made an expensive mistake.

  • 13 December 2017
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93 replies

A
Badge
I am not referring to browsing, I am referring to streaming apps. I have no issue streaming on my phone or computer and they go in and out of the network regularly, no delays or studdars on either.
Chris
Userlevel 7
Badge +22
believe what you want I'm tired of arguing the fact. Enjoy yourself.
Respect the Queue (1)Move (2)Beam (1)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1)Connect:Amp (3)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings
AjTrek1
Userlevel 7
Keith, I have already tried disconnecting the powerline components, no change. The Playbar is not connected through this extension which is used to extend wireless to a separate building.

I am not saying the static IP fix won't work, and never said that, nor am I am saying it is not a network issue. My question has always been, why do other devices streaming the same applications not experience the same problem? That has me feeling that it may be a network issue, but one specific to Sonos. These other devices come in and out of the network regularly, so would they not experience the same IP issue? This is not a challenge, just trying to understand the problem.

Just a question...

Since you are building "hopping" with Sonos are you moving between Wi-Fi security protocols and/or setups? Such as WPA2 to WPA2Enterprise security or a traditional Wi-Fi router to a Mesh Network such Google Wi-Fi consisting of 3 or more modules? Just asking...
Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
Chris
Userlevel 7
Badge +22
http://www.tech-faq.com/ip-address-conflict.html
Respect the Queue (1)Move (2)Beam (1)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1)Connect:Amp (3)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings
A
Badge
I do not know why you are being confrontational, I am merely asking why this would happen with Sonos but not other devices.

I am not building hopping with the Sonos, that stays put. I use a tv with streaming in the back, and general wireless access.
AjTrek1
Userlevel 7
One last comment on networking....I am not referring to browsing, I am referring to streaming apps. I have no issue streaming on my phone or computer and they go in and out of the network regularly, no delays or studdars on either.

One last comment on networking…

Two of the biggest so-called consumer networking conveniences are WPS and UPnP. They are in reality vulnerabilities and can lead to other problems within a network.

I have both of those so-called conveniences blocked at the Hardware Level via my Router Settings. Nothing gets on my network via WPS or UPnP Protocol. You might consider checking to see if your network allows them and if so I recommend disabling the features. Doing so may cause certain devices to disconnect but they can be added back to your network the old-fashion way (i.e. SSID and Passphrase).

View the links for more info on WPS and UPnP.

WPS (Wi-Fi Protected Setup)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Protected_Setup

UPnP (Universal Plug n Play)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Plug_and_Play
Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
T
First, I appreciate the information being shared here.

Second, I can now play music from my PC or phone on the speakers.

Third Alexa still insists that I need to enable smart home skills (and I assume that is the Sonos skill), then when I do that and ask to discover devices it only finds one of the two.

When I look at devices in Alexa it only shows one device. Asking Alexa to play music gives the result of it telling me to enable the skill I just enabled. I've gone through the exercise of telling the systems to forget everything and start over countless times. I'm not betting that doing it yet again will help.

I guess I'm not quite back to square one, but pretty close.

I'm going to look into the advice re: router settings. It's been a while since I dug into that so it should be interesting.

I'll see if the customer support has a less than 30 minute wait tomorrow. I really am disappointed at the poor support provided. And before we get back on the "It's not Sonos, it's your hardware setup" Let's keep in mind that Sonos must know this, as shown by their page about Changing firewall settings in software. And yet finding this information re routers (that should be front and center) is a crap shoot, if it's even on their site.

I still say Sonos is dropping the ball on this one. I don't expect them to tell me exactly what to do in my specific router, but they must know what general changes need to be made. If they don't know then why would I consider sitting on hold for 30 (60, 90?) minutes only to be told they don't know what to do.

Seems a bit foolish to do so.
T
LOL I just noticed this thread has a green bar with Answered in it at the top.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Don't jump the gun on me.
AjTrek1
Userlevel 7
very good summary ajtrek

Thanks, Chris!
Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
AjTrek1
Userlevel 7
@ Tek_Freek

Don't get discouraged.

Alexa skills with Sonos is still a work in progress. I had an issue with my Sonos One (with Alexa) not streaming music to my Play 5's. The command was (and still is) "Alexa. play smooth jazz in Stereo Room". Alexa gave me the customary blah, blah, blah and yet I was getting nothing.

The fix was to delete the Alexa app, (on my iPhone) download it again and then sign-in using my account. Voila' everything came back just as it was before and all was right in my world. The only thing that I can determine is that there was probably a conflict with an iOS update. Stuff happens :? Point being sometimes it's the simple or least involved fix that does the trick.

This brings me back to comments I made earlier about pointing the finger at Sonos. There are any number of variables that can affect a Sonos system including operating system updates. Also, regarding my comments about Norton software adjustments vs Hardware....you'd be amazed how people take one bit of information and try to apply it to every situation. I get comments like ... "I updated the software on my computer so how did I still get infected?" Question: "Did you upgrade the software on your family members computer?" Answer: "I thought upgrading mine would cover everything". OK....That's the extreme...but I believe you get my point.

So, Tek_Freek, hang in there...I'm sure you'll get your issues resolved. Cheers!
Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
T
Good early morning. Here anyway.

First, keep in mind that when we first set this up everything worked.

Been thinking about what's going on with this system and this is the result. Probably obvious as can be, but in the middle of trying to track down what I have decided are multiple problems, things get confusing and the symptoms get muddled.

I can now play music from Amazon using my PC and Android devices. This tells me that the "path" from the Internet to the speakers is functional. Both speakers. I am pretty sure that means there is not a problem with settings in the router. At least for that function. Password setting in the speakers is correct as well. Which is something that bugs me. I have yet to find a place to check that in the Sonos app. Can someone direct me to where I can look at the Sonos settings re: the router?

What won't work is the Alexa software. And the confusing part is that it will see the left speaker, but not the right one. I have done the Forget in Alexa, removed the Sonos skill, re-enabled the Sonos skill, and added the speakers back. And Alexa only finds the one speaker. What I haven't done is remove voice recognition per this:

- In the Alexa app, select 'Skills' and disable the Sonos Skill;
- In the Alexa app (PC version), select 'Smart Home' then 'Devices';
- Select 'Forget All' at the bottom of the screen;
- In the Sonos app, select 'Settings' and for each of the Sonos 1's remove 'Voice Recognition';

During all of this I have never found Remove Voice Recognition. The obvious reason is that since things are not working correctly that menu item is not being displayed. You know, "That item isn't needed since there is no voice recognition active." If that is true then the person/group that thought removing was a good idea are dolts. I've written code for menu systems, technical manuals, etc blah blah blah. The first rule I always used was a single word. Consistency. If the feature is not available grey it out. Removing it only confuses new users that are usually struggling already. Side tracking them because a menu item they expect to find is is missing is criminal. On the other hand I could be wrong, lol.

It looks like there is perhaps a problem with the right speaker itself. I can't think of anything that would cause the results I see except that. It's the one I had to fight with to be recognized during Add a Surround. I finally connected it to the router with a cable and got it recognized. That leads me to thinking there is a problem with the wireless function, but since it plays music I don't feel that's the case.

I'm asking for input.

What would cause the right speaker to play music but not be seen by Alexa software.

Is the remove voice recognition menu item somewhere I'm not finding, or is my assumption correct regard removing it when not active. Man that would be a stupid thing to do.

Tell me the path music takes from Amazon Music. I assume it goes directly to the speakers. I say this because I've started it playing on the PC and shut down the PC with music continuing to play.

Router settings. Would one of you take the time to share your knowledge and do a write up of the basic steps to resolve router issues. Just tossing out generalities seems like a good idea, but those of us who aren't familiar with router configuration are still lost. For those of you who understand this more that I do I would ask; Does the following make sense. If so, do I need to somehow find these ports and "turn them on" so to speak?

Below are the ports that Sonos uses:

TCP/IP:
80 (Internet Radio, updates and registration)
443 (Rhapsody, Napster, and SiriusXM)
445 (CIFS)
3400 (incoming UPnP events - Sonos Controller App for Mac or PC)
3401 (Sonos Controller App for iOS)
3445 (OS X File Sharing)
3500 (Sonos Controller App for Android)
4070 (Spotify incoming events)
4444 (Sonos update process)

UDP:
136-139 (NetBIOS)
1900 (UPnP events and device detection)
1901 (UPnP responses)
2869, 10243, 10280-10284 (Windows Media Player NSS)
5353 (Spotify Control)
6969 (Initial configuration)

Note: When configuring a software firewall, the above ports will require inbound access.

That's about it. I'll probably think of something else not too long after I post this. I usually do.
T
Going through things again. I uninstalled Alexa on my phone and reinstalled it as mentioned by AjTrek1. I disabled the Sonos Skill then re-enabled it. Did a Discovery and found no new devices. But I noticed that in Settings (Alexa) I see both speakers, and they are both shown as online. Not sure if this means Alexa will now work, and I can't test it because my wife is still asleep.

Patience, patience, patience.
bockersjv
Userlevel 7
Badge +21
.. I can't test it because my wife is still asleep.

Patience, patience, patience.

Go on, wake her up 😃
T
Oh yeah. Smart move! 🆒
T
Head scratching. I went back through the Alexa routine again. This time it found both speakers and Alexa is working.

The only thing I can think of that might have change is that I uninstalled Alexa, re-installed, then went trough the add ability, etc.

And while I'm typing it played 1 1/2 Doors songs and stopped. It did restart when I asked to play the doors again.

Aaaaand it stopped partway through the first song.

I guess I'm still screwed.
T
Playing through Sonos app on the PC it went through quite a few songs and I had Alexa stop it. I then asked Alexa to play Jefferson Airplane and it's also playing quite a few, but I wonder if it's picking up from the Sonos app. I'm looking for a sign out in the app. If I find one I'll start over with Alexa. Next test - The Doors again. House cleaners showed up. It'll be a couple of hours.
AjTrek1
Userlevel 7
You don’t want to sign out...you want to Clear the Queue. Come to think of it you may want to do that for all your speakers.

In the Sonos app expand the song that’s playing or what shows as last played or the room to reveal the Volume Slider. To the right of the volume slider you’ll see two horizontal lines...tap them to reveal the Queue. Your options at the bottom will be Clear, Edit and Save. The choice is obvious but I’ll write it anyway...Select Clear. 🆒 Cheers!
Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
T
I've started a new thread because someone marked this one answered and it is obvious it hasn't been. I assume that once it's marked that no one will "un-mark" it.

New thread is at https://en.community.sonos.com/amazon-alexa-and-sonos-229102/sonos-one-problems-6797920
T
There is nothing to clear...

You don’t want to sign out...you want to Clear the Queue. Come to think of it you may want to do that for all your speakers.

In the Sonos app expand the song that’s playing or what shows as last played or the room to reveal the Volume Slider. To the right of the volume slider you’ll see two horizontal lines...tap them to reveal the Queue. Your options at the bottom will be Clear, Edit and Save. The choice is obvious but I’ll write it anyway...Select Clear. 🆒 Cheers!
T
AjTrek1, I want to tell you I appreciate the effort made by you on these forums.

That said, you are wrong.

I disagree for a number of reasons. The first being that Sonos has undertaken a project to build these speakers, but has also ignored the fact that 99.9% of users do not have the knowledge to adjust their router settings. I'm an old tech guy and I cringe every time I'm told I have to do it.

Just because you're a whiz with adjusting your settings doesn't mean everyone else is.

You (or someone - I can't keep track) said to dump UPnP. Take a look at this list that is one a Sonos web page. While we are being told that we should remove UPnP in these threads Sonos is telling us we need it. Someone needs to make up their mind exactly what it is users need to do. Those that have the ability to slog their way through routers settings, that is.

Below are the ports that Sonos uses:

TCP/IP:
80 (Internet Radio, updates and registration)
443 (Rhapsody, Napster, and SiriusXM)
445 (CIFS)
3400 (incoming UPnP events - Sonos Controller App for Mac or PC)
3401 (Sonos Controller App for iOS)
3445 (OS X File Sharing)
3500 (Sonos Controller App for Android)
4070 (Spotify incoming events)
4444 (Sonos update process)

UDP:
136-139 (NetBIOS)
1900 (UPnP events and device detection)
1901 (UPnP responses)
2869, 10243, 10280-10284 (Windows Media Player NSS)
5353 (Spotify Control)
6969 (Initial configuration)

Sonos cannot possibly in a million years anticipate the multiplicity of network setups that consumers will have in their homes.

Remember, you can always call Sonos if you don’t mind the wait.

These two statements clearly reflect the real problem if true. You tell me that Sonos can't possibly know what to do with network setups, then you tell me to call them. If they can't fix my network problems (assuming that is the problem) then why should i wait an unreasonable amount of time on hold just to be told they can't help.

Until there is a clear explanation of the basics of router configuration with regards to the Sonos system posted on this site your arguments are meaningless. I'm not saying they have to go into detail for every router out there, but a simple explanation would likely suffice for a great number of users.

Stating where a problem lies with no help offered other than having a kid down the street fix it is not only condescending, it's a cop out.

Not to rain on someone’s parade…but I guess I am.

Reference to Firewall’s specs set by Norton. Norton is a SOFTWARE running on a computer. All of the Norton settings made are resident to that one piece of hardware and affects only how it (the computer) will interact with traffic over one’s network.

Conversely, Sonos performance relative to Norton are only affected when using the Sonos App resident on that computer. If using the Sonos App on an iPhone or compatible tablet the settings made to the Norton software on the computer have no influence over how Sonos performs.

The only configuration that would globally affect Sonos performance (using a computer, iPhone or tablet) with respect to a firewall or port settings would be those made at the HARDWARE level or more specifically at the ROUTER.

I have an Asus AC5300 Router Tri-Band router and it’s locked down tighter than a melted engine block. I have no problems streaming on any of my Wi-Fi enabled devices. I also run BitDefender on my computers with Windows Defender adjusted down to a secondary periodic background scan. My point being that having an understanding of how Wi-Fi works (or router configuration) solves/prevents a multitude of issues. I might also add that I use a Boost Component (not a speaker) setup with my Sonos which is what I always recommend. Some will use a Sonos speaker to accomplish the Boost but I prefer the dedicated Boost component.

What I have been leading up to is….

This is a great forum to get help and learn about Sonos. However, a lot of the finger pointing at Sonos IMO is unwarranted. The majority of the issues by my observation always come back to two things:

Lack of user knowledge which is one reason why this forum exists (we all have learn); and the biggest one IMO_NETWORK issues.

Network issues are always going to be the prime suspect. However, blaming Sonos is not going to resolve the problem. Sonos cannot possibly in a million years anticipate the multiplicity of network setups that consumers will have in their homes. The UPnP (Universal Plug n’ Play) touted by manufacturers of networking equipment is the biggest misnomer since it was believed that the Sun revolved around the Earth. The Sonos speaker is a relatively simple setup it’s the networks that cause the issues.

To be fair I will allow that Sonos has made a few missteps with the Sonos App upgrades. People don’t like change…but guess what…change is inevitable. It’s the price we pay for improvements and progress.

Bottom-line…understanding networking is key. If you don’t understand it that’s OK…get help from a friend or the neighbors kid down the street. Remember, you can always call Sonos if you don’t mind the wait. Cheers!
T
http://www.tech-faq.com/ip-address-conflict.html

How do I find the ip address for my speakers? Once I find it (and assuming it's the same as another device) how do I change it?

I've noticed there is a lot of back and forth regarding this subject, but I've yet to find a single, helpful, post that describes the solution.

How do I resolve this issue?
T
I have to say this with no apologies. What an arrogant post. You assume everyone knows how to go into their router settings, know exactly where the problems are, and make changes to fix them. If it's so easy then post here the steps to make the required changes.

It should be no problem to do so since it's so simple.

You are so far out of touch with the reality of the average user it's ridiculous.

90% of all problems can be corrected by assigning fixed IP addresses to your network devices. IP addresses - problem for routers in the 90s and problem today. Sonos can't fix issues with routers assigning the same number twice.

I update my Sonos and other network devices consistently and have absolutely no troubles. No matter how many times people want to act like its a Sonos issue it almost always is not. Fix your router. Fix your IP addresses. Troubles gone.
T
Found the ip address. It's not the same as any other according to the list in the router. What good does this do me?

http://www.tech-faq.com/ip-address-conflict.html

How do I find the ip address for my speakers? Once I find it (and assuming it's the same as another device) how do I change it?

I've noticed there is a lot of back and forth regarding this subject, but I've yet to find a single, helpful, post that describes the solution.

How do I resolve this issue?
jgatie
Good grief. Slow it down just a little and stop freaking berating the very people you are asking for help. For someone who says they are of average knowledge, you certainly seem to be an expert when it comes to telling people when they are wrong. So for once in this thread, drop the attitude and actually listen to the advice given!

Number one, looking at your router to detect IP conflicts is useless. Your router is the reason for the conflicts, if it could detect them, you wouldn't have the problem in the first place.

Number two, to clear the IP conflicts you have to do the following:

Reboot/power cycle your devices in the following order:

Modem
Router
Switches or hubs
Wired Sonos units
Wireless Sonos units
Computers/printers
Wireless devices - phones/tablets etc.

Allow each device to come back up before proceeding to the next.

Number three, you can permanently prevent duplicate IP addresses by assigning an IP to each device's MAC address in the router setup. See your router manual for details. Every router is different, so you complaining about the fact that no one can give you instructions is pretty silly. I'm afraid you are going to have to put an actual effort into something besides posting useless rants and insulting people here.

And lastly, saying you aren't going to call Sonos because they can't anticipate what is wrong with every setup is like not taking your car to a mechanic because they don't know what is wrong with it before they look at it. It is an absurd statement, defying all logic. Just because Sonos can't prevent all problems from happening doesn't mean they cannot solve specific problems after they happen.
T
Thank you for making my point. Through all of this I've been told to look at the router to fix the problem. Now I'm told not to. How do you expect me to react? The point I've trying to make is that the "help" I've been getting from some posters simply isn't a help. All it does is confuse me because there is never an explanation of how to do what they recommend.

And thank you for finally giving actual instructions regarding how to clear the conflicts. It's a shame I had to dish out a load of garbage to get a decent answer. You are now my number one favorite poster.

Again, thank you.

BTW, I will keep the attitude as long as know-it-alls post vague information with no explanation of how to do what is simple for them. Someone needs to call them to task, and if it's me, then so be it. No help is better than confusing and incomplete help.

Good grief. Slow it down just a little and stop freaking berating the very people you are asking for help. For someone who says they are of average knowledge, you certainly seem to be an expert when it comes to telling people when they are wrong. So for once in this thread, drop the attitude and actually listen to the advice given!

Number one, looking at your router to detect IP conflicts is useless. Your router is the reason for the conflicts, if it could detect them, you wouldn't have the problem in the first place.

Number two, to clear the IP conflicts you have to do the following:

Reboot/power cycle your devices in the following order:

Modem
Router
Switches or hubs
Wired Sonos units
Wireless Sonos units
Computers/printers
Wireless devices - phones/tablets etc.

Allow each device to come back up before proceeding to the next.

Number three, you can permanently prevent duplicate IP addresses by assigning an IP to each device's MAC address in the router setup. See your router manual for details. Every router is different, so you complaining about the fact that no one can give you instructions is pretty silly. I'm afraid you are going to have to put an actual effort into something besides posting useless rants and insulting people here.

And lastly, saying you aren't going to call Sonos because they can't anticipate what is wrong with every setup is like not taking your car to a mechanic because they don't know what is wrong with it before they look at it. It is an absurd statement, defying all logic. Just because Sonos can't prevent all problems from happening doesn't mean they cannot solve specific problems after they happen.
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