The new "endorsed" Control4 drivers are complete garbage. From the face of it, they have lost a TON of functionality from the original "hacked" drivers. Apparently the people who hacked the old API knew more than SONOS engineers about their own stuff... We had full ability to use all inputs across the system, we had the ability (through some creative logic) use multiple Connect:'s into a matrix to allow more than one stream at a time... We had the ability to add a Pandora station, for instance.
Now, the new driver. I can't see anything but the "top 50".
Sonos limits it's "Sonos Favorites" list to 50 entries across all services combined! It seems like there are more than 50 services available. So 1 from each?
Not only that but I can't even use logic "if sonos1 is playing then..." because there are no conditionals.
I can't have more than one into a matrix anyways because the system is incapable of starting more than 1 stream reliably with shared paths. IE 2 Connect:'s into a matrix to 16 rooms, tell Sonos1 to play favorite X, it will randomly pick a sonos box and play X but then when you go and add rooms to actually play it in it will group the players together to "spread" this audio across 2 zones, or if you try and start the other player it "randomly" picks the same box and changes the station...
You used to be able to click Pandora on the right "effect" side of programming, choose station and ROOMS TO PLAY IT IN... and it would play. Then if you did it again, it would see if there was another unused player and pick the next unused player to start the stream. If you didn't have any available I can't remember now if it just wouldn't play or would step on someone's toes and take over a zone... never ran into that programmatically speaking.
If Spotify can come to your engineers and say, hey man, our app allows us to start playing spotify on any device you have logged in under that account... can you completely redesign your API to accomodate that, You say hell yeah, sounds fun!
But when you decide you no longer want 3rd party automation companies "hacking" your stuff, you give them an endorsed pathway to create a driver. Yet you give NONE of the features that would make it an integrated product, nor do you make it actually work. WTF...
Where do we go from here, besides Denon, seriously?
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Hi JohnCAndrew,
Thanks for the post and your feedback. We already have an open thread regarding the Endorsed Control4 integration with Sonos. If you have not already it would be worth giving it a look and lending your thoughts in that post.
Thanks for the post and your feedback. We already have an open thread regarding the Endorsed Control4 integration with Sonos. If you have not already it would be worth giving it a look and lending your thoughts in that post.
Your link to the open thread doesn't work for me.
Thanks for that heads up. The link is now pointing to the post correctly.
As a Control4 Dealer who has for 2-3 years avoided using Sonos like the plague because of the shockingly low dealer discount and the hoops we have to jump through to even be allowed to get the minuscule discount on the product (Saying this I installed it in my own house 4yrs and love the way it works because the wife and kids can work it!) Long and short when it comes to clients I will sell them C4 audio, Denon, Nuvo or anything that integrates with C4 'PROPERLY' its clear from the lack of discount that and this latest endorsed API debacle that Sonos could not careless about the CI industry and any close partnership, they would appear to only want to make money from retail sales.
Why they take this narrow minded and blinkered approach to CI installers like us we are out there spreading the word not to buy what is actually a great product but with poor leadership/marketing/partnership and direction on placing it in multiple market places, to top it off in the UK we got hit in Feb by a 25% price increase so it makes Heos a no brainer now.
The OP has a perfect point we recently had a client ask for Sonos and would not go for other options, we thought what the heck, the crazy thing is they got a better discount than we did via their global corporation that a family member is CEO. So when it came to integration we thought lets do a Control4 announcement for the door bell like we have done on countless pre endorsed driver using the old Extra Veg driver, oh to our surprise the new driver will not allow this either as the line level input switching is not part of the API. The new driver is absolutely pointless and so is the partnership that Sonos made such a big thing so long story short unless we see Sonos play nice we are not a fan of selling your kit and Heos is our new option because they have not burnt their bridges yet.
Don't get me wrong I do not wish to see Sonos fail or even lose market share but maybe they have had it their own way for too long now and its time for them to see they have competition ready to play nice with integration manufactures, Nest tried all this no one has our API at the start but soon realised it was a benefit to give integrator's access to the full API
Anyway see how long this rant stays up!!
Why they take this narrow minded and blinkered approach to CI installers like us we are out there spreading the word not to buy what is actually a great product but with poor leadership/marketing/partnership and direction on placing it in multiple market places, to top it off in the UK we got hit in Feb by a 25% price increase so it makes Heos a no brainer now.
The OP has a perfect point we recently had a client ask for Sonos and would not go for other options, we thought what the heck, the crazy thing is they got a better discount than we did via their global corporation that a family member is CEO. So when it came to integration we thought lets do a Control4 announcement for the door bell like we have done on countless pre endorsed driver using the old Extra Veg driver, oh to our surprise the new driver will not allow this either as the line level input switching is not part of the API. The new driver is absolutely pointless and so is the partnership that Sonos made such a big thing so long story short unless we see Sonos play nice we are not a fan of selling your kit and Heos is our new option because they have not burnt their bridges yet.
Don't get me wrong I do not wish to see Sonos fail or even lose market share but maybe they have had it their own way for too long now and its time for them to see they have competition ready to play nice with integration manufactures, Nest tried all this no one has our API at the start but soon realised it was a benefit to give integrator's access to the full API
Anyway see how long this rant stays up!!
And you posted it twice? :8
And you are my new stalker!
Oh but you racked up two more posts to your score, good for you mate lol
I wouldn't think he is. There are quite a few of us who read these boards daily, and when someone posts essentially the same thing in multiple places, it begins to feel a bit tiresome.
Its relevant to both threads but whatever, forum police!!
We have just installed Sonos with a Control4 system on a large multi-zone zone system. What a mistake this was! It will be taken out very shortly unless the driver is fixed very soon as it will inevitably ruin the client experience
Still trying to understand why Control4 endorsed this driver if it is so much worse than the previous one from Extra Vegetables? Is this a badly written driver that does not fully utilize the Sonos API? Are there shortcomings in the new Sonos API that prevents anyone from providing all the functionality available in the previous driver? I don't think we are getting the full story here.
What are Control4 dealers being told is the root of the problem?
What are Control4 dealers being told is the root of the problem?
upstatemike its the API that is at fault, this is Sonos being narrow minded IMO about the CI industry again and watering down the API to a pointless level. Nest tried this at the start by rebuilding their protocol to shut down the back door hacked drivers and they soon realised it is better to play nice as they are not the only fish in the pond. I doubt Sonos will though I will continue to ship products I get 25 - 50% dealer discount on instead of the pathetic 15% Sonos offer after you beg to get on their list and have to sign stupid documents every five minutes and also be forced to buy £1000's of demo kit. What is the point when I have clients who can get 20% discount through their corporate employers scheme!!!!! Sonos is fast becoming a joke in my area of business
I must say I resonate with the above.
After years of being in strong support of Sonos since its early days, selling and promoting to a very large client base, friends, family or anyone who asked, my companies dropped their Sonos reseller accounts last year. If we need any for a project or friend I can still source through an associate for the same rate I used to get anyway, but this becoming rare and is only supplied if requested rather than actively promoted. There are many viable alternatives now.
We also have the same bug as JohnCAndrews mentioned at the start of the post rendering the integration useless. 7 months since the API release and nothing has changed which highlights the lack of focus on the CI (Custom Install) channel. I understand this channel isn't their main focus now, it was a huge part in the early days, but I just don't understand the lack of attention as a small investment in this area would have huge returns for Sonos. After all, its a great product!
After years of being in strong support of Sonos since its early days, selling and promoting to a very large client base, friends, family or anyone who asked, my companies dropped their Sonos reseller accounts last year. If we need any for a project or friend I can still source through an associate for the same rate I used to get anyway, but this becoming rare and is only supplied if requested rather than actively promoted. There are many viable alternatives now.
We also have the same bug as JohnCAndrews mentioned at the start of the post rendering the integration useless. 7 months since the API release and nothing has changed which highlights the lack of focus on the CI (Custom Install) channel. I understand this channel isn't their main focus now, it was a huge part in the early days, but I just don't understand the lack of attention as a small investment in this area would have huge returns for Sonos. After all, its a great product!
Well said InHome Media, it would be nice to hear from Sonos on why technically they decided to limit their API to such a pathetic and useless level.
I have a client who is the daughter of a billionaire and he owns/invests in dozens of well known tech brands, she was stunned that she had to use the Sonos app to add radio stations to the favorites before she could access them on her C4 touchscreens which we dotted around her home.
The house refurb took two years and we demonstrated Sonos to her at point of sale two years ago when we had the full search capability via the EV driver and now we are at commissioning & handover stage we cannot meet her expectations (rip it out soon I'm guessing) and I doubt she will give it good press either. The good thing is she understands tech and knows that we have been screwed over by the corporate machine but what could have been a influencer for this brand will be the opposite now!
Oh I smell the coffee so I'm leaving it at that 😛
I have a client who is the daughter of a billionaire and he owns/invests in dozens of well known tech brands, she was stunned that she had to use the Sonos app to add radio stations to the favorites before she could access them on her C4 touchscreens which we dotted around her home.
The house refurb took two years and we demonstrated Sonos to her at point of sale two years ago when we had the full search capability via the EV driver and now we are at commissioning & handover stage we cannot meet her expectations (rip it out soon I'm guessing) and I doubt she will give it good press either. The good thing is she understands tech and knows that we have been screwed over by the corporate machine but what could have been a influencer for this brand will be the opposite now!
Oh I smell the coffee so I'm leaving it at that 😛
I'm not saying it is not the API that is at fault here. I'm just curious to know how you can tell the problem is in the API and not the driver? Did C4 dealers get a communication detailing where the problem is?
Also still not clear why C4 didn't just stick with the old driver if the new API is garbage? Lots of other automation companies continue to use the old methods and have no problems... so why did C4 switch?
C4 have confirmed to dealers that the driver is doing as much as the API will let them.
C4 had to remove the old EV driver from the database as it was a hack and now they have signed agreeing to use use the endorsed API any use of the hack would be a breach and the agreement and support would be void.
The old EV driver works still in the most part and will until they change the API. I'm sure they will change it at some point then we will have dozens of systems that stop working over night where clients paid the old Extra Veg company for a lifetime license!!
C4 had to remove the old EV driver from the database as it was a hack and now they have signed agreeing to use use the endorsed API any use of the hack would be a breach and the agreement and support would be void.
The old EV driver works still in the most part and will until they change the API. I'm sure they will change it at some point then we will have dozens of systems that stop working over night where clients paid the old Extra Veg company for a lifetime license!!
[quote=upstatemike] Lots of other automation companies continue to use the old methods and have no problems... so why did C4 switch?
Like who? if they are signed up as a endorsed partner then no they will have a diluted version like C4 do. I believe some have embed a android window of the Sonos app in their touch screen but that is not runing it within their system to the extend we used to be able to play wav files to Sonos direct for say a door chime but cannot now without doing a complete frig using a file stored on a NAS and calling it a favourite in Sonos
Arrrggghhhhh don't get me going on the number of things we can't do now 😠
Like who? if they are signed up as a endorsed partner then no they will have a diluted version like C4 do. I believe some have embed a android window of the Sonos app in their touch screen but that is not runing it within their system to the extend we used to be able to play wav files to Sonos direct for say a door chime but cannot now without doing a complete frig using a file stored on a NAS and calling it a favourite in Sonos
Arrrggghhhhh don't get me going on the number of things we can't do now 😠
[quote=21stce] Lots of other automation companies continue to use the old methods and have no problems... so why did C4 switch?
Like who? if they are signed up as a endorsed partner then no they will have a diluted version like C4 do. I believe some have embed a android window of the Sonos app in their touch screen but that is not runing it within their system to the extend we used to be able to play wav files to Sonos direct for say a door chime but cannot now without doing a complete frig using a file stored on a NAS and calling it a favourite in Sonos
Arrrggghhhhh don't get me going on the number of things we can't do now :@
This doesn't appear to be an issue for Charmed Quark, Fibaro, Homeseer, Zipato, etc. My Homeseer system plays TTS and WAV files through Sonos just fine. It has no trouble for example pausing music, changing the speaker groupings, delivering a message, restoring the previous grouping and resuming the music.
Why are you not pushing on C4 to intervene with Sonos on your behalf to get this fixed? If they can't get anywhere then why don't they abandon the agreement and focus on providing good features outside of the API the way their competitors do? Finally, if neither Sonos or C4 are interested in resolving this why not dump both of them for products your customers will be happy with? I can't see a dealer putting up with this kind of complacency from either company.
Like who? if they are signed up as a endorsed partner then no they will have a diluted version like C4 do. I believe some have embed a android window of the Sonos app in their touch screen but that is not runing it within their system to the extend we used to be able to play wav files to Sonos direct for say a door chime but cannot now without doing a complete frig using a file stored on a NAS and calling it a favourite in Sonos
Arrrggghhhhh don't get me going on the number of things we can't do now :@
This doesn't appear to be an issue for Charmed Quark, Fibaro, Homeseer, Zipato, etc. My Homeseer system plays TTS and WAV files through Sonos just fine. It has no trouble for example pausing music, changing the speaker groupings, delivering a message, restoring the previous grouping and resuming the music.
Why are you not pushing on C4 to intervene with Sonos on your behalf to get this fixed? If they can't get anywhere then why don't they abandon the agreement and focus on providing good features outside of the API the way their competitors do? Finally, if neither Sonos or C4 are interested in resolving this why not dump both of them for products your customers will be happy with? I can't see a dealer putting up with this kind of complacency from either company.
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