Add Sonos to house with wired speakers in 12 zones

K

I have recently moved into a house that was wired for multi-room audio several years ago (15+ years). I am looking to upgrade the system and would appreciate some advice/input.

There are 12 zones all controlled by the devices in the above picture. One Onkyo stereo receiver and 4 Niles boxes. 6 of the zones have a control pad (connected to one box) and the other 6 zones (connected to the other box) just have a volume dial. Each zone has 2 speakers

Seems a shame to remove the speakers and all the wiring that has been done.

My goals are to

  1. Have a simplified system with less zones (don’t need speakers in most of the zones and will probably only go for 2 zones; inside and outside). I would leave more of the zones but the cost may be prohibitive? 
  2. Ability to turn on or off, select source and control volume without having to go into the closet 
  3. Ability to stream from normal sources (Apple, Spotify) without needing a phone to be nearby (don’t have any other sources) but also want to stream from a phone
  4. Ability to control volume from a wall dial/control pad if possible
  5. Playing different sources in different zones at the same time is not a priority

I think that to maintain the 12 different zones I would need 12 amps and they would all need a port as well? If that is the case then anything more that 2 zones (with 2 amps and 2 ports) is probably off the table. Also how many speakers can I connect to one amp? I believe it is 4 so I could combine 2 zones (4 speakers) into 1 and all 4 speakers would play at the same time. The zones I would like to keep are kitchen, living room, dining room in zone 1 and porch and pool in zone 2. 

Thanks in advance for any advice/suggestions.

15 replies

buzz

Here’s a manual for the SI-1230 and SI-275

Can you give us model numbers for the top two Niles boxes? Are there any in-wall Volume controls? Unless there is current provision for In-wall controls for each area, running the wires for this would likely be a major project.

 

Where is the Volume control for the six speakers connected to the top box?

K

Here’s a manual for the SI-1230 and SI-275

Can you give us model numbers for the top two Niles boxes? Are there any in-wall Volume controls? Unless there is current provision for In-wall controls for each area, running the wires for this would likely be a major project.

 

Where is the Volume control for the six speakers connected to the top box?


in order from the top

SPS-6 

MRZ-6

SI-275

SI-1230

onkyo TX-8511


6 of the zones/rooms have Niles control pads which control volume, source and skip tracks (maybe as haven’t tested if they work). The other 6 zones/rooms only have a volume dial. 

K

 

buzz

The control pads are connected to the MRZ-6. Are the other rooms using in-wall speaker Volume controls? If so, pull one of the controls and get a model number. With the proper in-wall controls that SPS-6 is extraneous. At best it would then be a simple junction box. While there is no immediate need to trash it, depending on the Volume controls used, it was never required.

K

The control pads are connected to the MRZ-6. Are the other rooms using in-wall speaker Volume controls? If so, pull one of the controls and get a model number. With the proper in-wall controls that SPS-6 is extraneous. At best it would then be a simple junction box. While there is no immediate need to trash it, depending on the Volume controls used, it was never required.

Yes the other 6 rooms have a volume dial. So in total there are 6 control panels and 6 volume dials. 

K

 

buzz

The picture is inconclusive. The model number will tell the tale. An “impedance matching” control might incorporate a small switch or set of jumpers that can be set to safely interface multiple pairs of speakers to an amplifier. Presently, most controls that you’ll encounter are the impedance matching type with jumpers or a switch. When this system was installed other types of controls, some without a switch, were common.

buzz

Are any speakers connected to the receiver? It might only be used as a remote controlled input switch.

K

Are any speakers connected to the receiver? It might only be used as a remote controlled input switch.

unable to check until later but I believe all the speakers are connected to the top 2 boxes (SPS-6 & MRZ-6)

melvimbe

 

I think that to maintain the 12 different zones I would need 12 amps and they would all need a port as well? If that is the case then anything more that 2 zones (with 2 amps and 2 ports) is probably off the table. Also how many speakers can I connect to one amp? I believe it is 4 so I could combine 2 zones (4 speakers) into 1 and all 4 speakers would play at the same time. The zones I would like to keep are kitchen, living room, dining room in zone 1 and porch and pool in zone 2. 

Thanks in advance for any advice/suggestions.

 

I think Buzz is taking you down the right path in figuring out exactly what equipment you have to work with.  However, just an FYI, you won’t need an Amp and Port for each zone, you’ll only want one or the other.  Both have all the ‘smarts’ built into them.   The amp is the right choice if you want to power your speakers without using a 3rd party amp/receiver (which you already have) and/or connect a TV source.  The Port is right choice if you already have an amp/receiver and/or have an aux input source, like a turntable or CD player.

I would guess (didn’t look at the user manual too long) that you could use your existing equipment and just add a Port or two as input sources for the system.  You would still use the existing controls for everything else.  If you went with amps, replacing all of the existing system, you’re likely going to need at least 6.  The amp usually is for a pair of speakers, but you can use it with 2 pair  if your speakers are 8 ohm (likely).   Impedance matching switches could allow you to hook up additional speakers to a single amp, which is part of why Buzz is asking about the switches.  Each amp is just one zone at one volume for Sonos, but your switches would allow you to control the volume for each room.

Danny
K

The picture is inconclusive. The model number will tell the tale. An “impedance matching” control might incorporate a small switch or set of jumpers that can be set to safely interface multiple pairs of speakers to an amplifier. Presently, most controls that you’ll encounter are the impedance matching type with jumpers or a switch. When this system was installed other types of controls, some without a switch, were common.

Thanks for all the questions. Has several models numbers on the dial. SCW-1D, SCW-1S, SCW-1U, SCW-2, SCW-2A

 

buzz

There are lots of moving parts in this drama.
 

The various model numbers denote different mounting schemes. Unfortunately, I’m not able to find the data that we need. I doubt that this is an impedance matching control. The images that I’ve found do not show any jumpers or switches. Let’s assume that these are 8-Ohm units and the SPS-6 is required if you want to run all six rooms. You may be able to get additional information by contacting NILES directly.

The MRZ-6 will be troublesome to replace because Volume is controlled by the keypads. We could be approaching end of life for the keypads. I can imagine that a button or two have stopped working. It is unlikely that speaker wire has been run to the keypad locations, otherwise the keypads could be simply be replaced with impedance matching Volume controls.

That receiver is so old that it’s only practical use would be as an input selector switch for a CD player, Phono, or Radio.

A quick and easy plan would be to replace the receiver with PORT. There would be one Line-In to accommodate an analog source. All speakers would play the same music and PORT would integrate with other SONOS units, if any.

You could use a second PORT as the input to the SI-275 or replace the SI-275 with an AMP. Either scheme would give you two independent sources and a second Line-In. All of the speakers connected to each amplifier will play the same music. I don’t know if this will yield the “right” music in a given location.

If you only want to use a couple rooms that are now attached to the SPS-6, you could replace the SPS-6 and SI-275 with an AMP. The audio quality of these two rooms would be improved somewhat. I don’t know if this is important to you or not.

K

Thanks both for you comments and walking me through the issues, I did manage to get a picture of the intellipad (and agree they are approaching end of life). Looks like it only has connections to the IR Data and the Status, no speakers. 

 

So think my plan is t

  • Replace the SPS-6 and SI-275 with a Sonos amp and connect speakers from Living room, Kitchen and Dining room (thpought this is 6 speakers (3 sets)
  • Replace the MRZ-6 and SI-1230 with a Sonos amp connected to speakers pool and porch
  • Remove all the Intellipads and volume controls 
  • Remove the onkyo TX-8511
  • Remove speakers and wires from other rooms not being used
  • (Incidentally I plan on also replacing 1 or 2 of the Intellipads with Brilliant home smart controls as they integrate with Sonos and RIng)

 

 

buzz

I recommend replacing the in-wall controls for the speakers formerly connected to the SPS-6 with modern impedance matching controls. Three pairs is not then an issue.

I’m a wire freak. Keep the wires, remove the unused speakers, Volume controls, and pads if you like.

If you are on a major remodel track, run network wires everywhere. I know that “isn’t everything wireless now?” is the claim, however, wired is faster and more robust. Depending on the size and arrangement of your home, you’ll be using WiFi mesh points. Wired mesh points are much faster and more reliable than wireless. At this point any new wireless system should be WiFi6. I know that WiFi7 is waiting in the wings, but I think that it’s a bit early to jump on that wagon unless you are open to replacing any WiFi7 units installed now in a couple years as the technology shakes out. We are years into WiFi6 and it is just now becoming pervasive, but there’s still a lot of WiFi4 and WiFi5 stuff out there (such as older SONOS units).

K

I recommend replacing the in-wall controls for the speakers formerly connected to the SPS-6 with modern impedance matching controls. Three pairs is not then an issue.

I’m a wire freak. Keep the wires, remove the unused speakers, Volume controls, and pads if you like.

If you are on a major remodel track, run network wires everywhere. I know that “isn’t everything wireless now?” is the claim, however, wired is faster and more robust. Depending on the size and arrangement of your home, you’ll be using WiFi mesh points. Wired mesh points are much faster and more reliable than wireless. At this point any new wireless system should be WiFi6. I know that WiFi7 is waiting in the wings, but I think that it’s a bit early to jump on that wagon unless you are open to replacing any WiFi7 units installed now in a couple years as the technology shakes out. We are years into WiFi6 and it is just now becoming pervasive, but there’s still a lot of WiFi4 and WiFi5 stuff out there (such as older SONOS units).

Thanks. I am separately removing the telephone (and intercom) and coaxial cables and replacing them with cat 6 ethernet in every room and a TP-Link AP (EAP615). But these are at floor level and couldn’t think how this could save me effort with the existing speakers which are all in the ceiling. 

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