I'm new to the Sonos world - having waited for Google Play integration (thanks!) - and am generally very impressed, as it's a joy to use such well designed products. However, I've been surprised that Groups functionality is so weak compared to what I'd expected...
I have a large living room that has an LR Pair of Play:1s in it and a single Play:5. When playing music in that room, all three are *always* used together, but this has exposed design shortcomings of the current Groups functionality.
I'd anticipated being able to configure all the speakers in my living room (ie. all those speakers that are *always* used simultaneously) to form a "permanent" grouping, not too dissimilar to how you can "permanently" create LR pairs. Currently, Groups are what I'd term "soft", and this leads to the following shortcomings:
- THE PHYSICAL VOLUME BUTTONS HAVE BEEN RENDERED USELESS, SINCE THEY DO NOT CONTROL GROUP VOLUME. For example, despite my three speakers always being used together in a single Group, the volume control on the Play:1s only changes the volume on the Play:1 LR pair, and the volume control on the Play:5 only adjusts its own volume. This means that the carefully balanced volume levels I've achieved between the speakers in the Group are immediately messed up if I use the physical volume buttons, since the buttons change individual (or LR pair) volumes, not Group volume. Therefore, I cannot use the physical buttons, which is a real shame, and have to always resort to the App to change volume levels. I am really surprised at this shortcoming!
- GROUP CONFIGURATIONS (INC. RELATIVE VOLUMES) ARE LOST ACROSS POWER CYCLES SO NEED REGULARLY RECREATING. I try to operate as green a home as possible, so if I'm going to be away from home for a few days I power down pretty much everything in the house. That includes router and will include my new Sonos gear. It seems that LR Pairing and EQ data is retained across power cycles, but all Group data is lost. From my perspective, the three-speaker Group I have in my Living Room is a permanent group - I expected to configure this once (akin to how I configured the Play:1 LR Pair), and then have the system remember that - forever (across power cycles) - until I unconfigured that grouping. As it is, I'll keep having to establish that Group again, and keep having to set the relative volume levels in the Group, which will become pretty tedious after the Nth time!
I appreciate that the current "soft" Groups functionality will work well for speakers in a home that are only ever informally grouped together, such as for a party, or other occasion when you want different rooms playing the same music. But, there is currently no support that I can see for my use case: that of having a "permanent" Group of speakers that are always used simultaneously. Is my use case so unusual? I'm suprised if so.
Thanks for listening!
"Permanently" Grouping Speakers that are Always Used Together (Beyond LR Pairs...)
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Wow, can't believe persistent groups are not available. Heard so many great things about Sonos, finally bought several, and can't even do a simple "Upstairs" and "Downstairs" pair of groupings. My wife teaches music in part of the home, and we assumed we'd each be able to safely consistently pick a group before anything starts playing, such as "Studio" for a piano piece for her, and "Non-Studio" for something else for me.
Totally rethinking the purchase, versus waiting for calamity to prove the lack of Sonos capability is truly an issue.
Totally rethinking the purchase, versus waiting for calamity to prove the lack of Sonos capability is truly an issue.
Followup: I returned all 16 Amps (sorry Sonos, get your act together) and instead purchased 3 Dayton MA1260 amps with Sonos Connects (no amp) for each unique "Sonos zone" I wanted to create.
These amps are awesome and exactly meet my needs unlike the Sonos amps. They also sound a lot better!
My large room with 16 speakers is now occupying 4 of the 6 zones on 1 Dayton. With 4 speakers wired on each zone in parallel. You can add one Sonos Connect to the "Input 1" and set those 4 zones' source to that input. (there are 2 global inputs or 6 individual zone inputs on the amp so any configuration is possible)
Anytime a Sonos signal comes on (via playing through the app), it will automatically turn on the amp and start playing through all 4 zones (amp zones) but it treats the room like a single "Sonos Zone" called "Family Room".
Volume controls also work via the app. You do need to set your max gain levels on the amp for each zone and then the volume in the Sonos app will max out to match. This is particularly useful for setups with mismatched speakers or speakers further away from others. You can set the gain for each individual channel so that you get an evenly distributed sound for the entire Sonos Zone.
If you're worried about power draw, the Daytons turn off automatically after 15 minutes of no signal. So no need to do anything but use the Sonos app.
Lastly, I can now use Alexa to say "play x in the family room" or "play x at the pool" and it will play on all of the speakers in that Sonos Zone which is actually 4 unique zones and 16 speakers via the amp (for the family room).
Hopefully this helps someone else with this lame Sonos handicap.
-Dylan
These amps are awesome and exactly meet my needs unlike the Sonos amps. They also sound a lot better!
My large room with 16 speakers is now occupying 4 of the 6 zones on 1 Dayton. With 4 speakers wired on each zone in parallel. You can add one Sonos Connect to the "Input 1" and set those 4 zones' source to that input. (there are 2 global inputs or 6 individual zone inputs on the amp so any configuration is possible)
Anytime a Sonos signal comes on (via playing through the app), it will automatically turn on the amp and start playing through all 4 zones (amp zones) but it treats the room like a single "Sonos Zone" called "Family Room".
Volume controls also work via the app. You do need to set your max gain levels on the amp for each zone and then the volume in the Sonos app will max out to match. This is particularly useful for setups with mismatched speakers or speakers further away from others. You can set the gain for each individual channel so that you get an evenly distributed sound for the entire Sonos Zone.
If you're worried about power draw, the Daytons turn off automatically after 15 minutes of no signal. So no need to do anything but use the Sonos app.
Lastly, I can now use Alexa to say "play x in the family room" or "play x at the pool" and it will play on all of the speakers in that Sonos Zone which is actually 4 unique zones and 16 speakers via the amp (for the family room).
Hopefully this helps someone else with this lame Sonos handicap.
-Dylan
Userlevel 7
+22
This has been a common request and we have been holding out hope that with the new, more easily developed I assume, controller that features like this are not far down the road.
Make a post in this thread to request ... https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/super_groups
I can't find a larger thread - they seem to be scattered.
Make a post in this thread to request ... https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/super_groups
I can't find a larger thread - they seem to be scattered.
+1
I think this is a great idea, and very well written. I've also been frustrating by the independent volume buttons even when grouped.
I think this is a great idea, and very well written. I've also been frustrating by the independent volume buttons even when grouped.
I'd really like the physical volume button to control grouped speakers as well.
Same ! Would love to be able to manage the group volume from any speaker of this group.
Another good thing would be to be able to make group of groups !
Another good thing would be to be able to make group of groups !
Userlevel 7
+22
If the speaker was in a permanent group wouldn't your alarm then still play to all speakers (as can be set now - to not ungroup)
+1 on this
If I had a nickel for every time someone said a software change was a "no brainer" I could retire from software engineering. Fact is, you or I have no idea what is "not hard" or a "no brainer" without detailed knowledge of the software. We also don't know if there are other changes in the pipeline that take precedence because of popularity.
And by the way, making derogatory comments on the skills of the programmers you are asking for a software change is not only tres gauche, it is the very definition of biting the hand that feeds you.
And would add a great deal of pain for a great many people too.
You've screamed for a change. Why not set out how that change would work. That would allow others to point out why your proposal would not work. Until you can say what you actually want whatever may be done will not be to your satisfaction.
Userlevel 7
+22
That they do. But I sure as hell wouldn't want them designing and building my Sonos hardware, firmware and software!
With the announced integration with the Amazon Echo, a permanent grouping option would be a very good addition. The Macronos app shows that it can be done, so why not Sonos ?
Sonos hardware is good but to stay ahead of the game they really need to up their game on the UI of the control software.
The Echo announcement was a good move as the Echo is an important "aggregator” or “service broker platform”. The Sonos software needs to respond to and exploit it's capabilities rather than just bolt it on. If they don't, others will quickly overtake them.
Sonos hardware is good but to stay ahead of the game they really need to up their game on the UI of the control software.
The Echo announcement was a good move as the Echo is an important "aggregator” or “service broker platform”. The Sonos software needs to respond to and exploit it's capabilities rather than just bolt it on. If they don't, others will quickly overtake them.
Userlevel 7
+17
They will have like for like Alexa intergration up against Denon as well. So timelines will be very public, with humiliation for failure or who comes seriously last. The race is on!!!
Denon is on its second redesign in three years, each unit averages well under 100 reviews on Amazon (compared to thousands for Sonos) and have never even dented the top 20 in multi-room audio sales. They aren't even a factor, despite copying Sonos almost unit for unit to the point of bringing a lawsuit into the picture. The Denon threat is about as valid as the nail's threat to the hammer.
I suspect that Amazon, Google and Bose are the more likely competition.....
Amazon has no multi-room speaker, and they just partnered with Sonos. Bose is probably closest, but they are on their THIRD redesign in three years, having had to scrap their Airplay implementation because they could never get it to work. Google? Maybe, but a dongle for existing speakers is all they are right now. We'll see when they come out with their actual speaker line . . . their last attempt (Nexus Q) was one of their biggest failures ever.
Userlevel 7
+17
The race to bring Alex first was all I was saying, nothing to do with who sells the most, is best etc etc. Competition is good for progress right?, even you rockstars can see that 😛
Competition is great. Denon just hasn't shown themselves to be much competition, despite having copied Sonos to the point of patent infringement. It's a shame really, because Denon used to be one of my very favorite brands until the quality slipped. I owned two Denon receivers that were tanks, the last one I bought was shoddy and for the money I paid you could get a much better receiver from other brands. Like being a mod on the former boards, it only serves as a nit some small minds like to pick
And PS - Can we knock it off with the Rock Star crap? We didn't ask for that stupid title, and I only got it because I've been a member for going on 9 years and they prorate posts from back then. That's an average of around 3 posts a day, a rate I'm sure other non "Rock Stars" dwarf when they get going on a rant. Believe me, I'd have no rating whatsoever if given a choice. Just like being a mod on the former boards, it only serves as a nit for small minds to pick.
Userlevel 7
+17
Well it kind of groups the 3 or 4 of you up.
Makes me wonder why you have stayed around so long, maybe an employee in disguise, the beauty is we will never know 😉
Makes me wonder why you have stayed around so long, maybe an employee in disguise, the beauty is we will never know 😉
Apple working on Amazon Echo-like device to control your home through Siri
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/138936-apple-working-on-amazon-echo-like-device-to-control-your-home-through-siri
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/138936-apple-working-on-amazon-echo-like-device-to-control-your-home-through-siri
It is that way today if you leave the units powered on as they are designed to be.
It is pretty simple these days to use an automation controller to set up a routine that changes the Sonos player groupings back to a known state each day at a certain time. If you set this for 3 AM each morning it would be all ready for you when you got up. Probably not worth waiting for Sonos to provide a native option when you can already accomplish the same thing now.
Userlevel 5
+10
... and I'd love a new thread that actually taught me how to do that! 'Cause I'm interested in toying with things like that if I can find a decent primer to get me started... But I'm thinking that may not be the solution for the typical not-computer-technical user... Now... thinking of it for a moment, I'd guess automation solutions will be rapidly developing anyway... so they may evolve to be mainstream....
PLAYBAR defaults to 'ungroup on Autoplay' for TV sources. You need to disable this setting to preserve the group.
... and I'd love a new thread that actually taught me how to do that! 'Cause I'm interested in toying with things like that if I can find a decent primer to get me started... But I'm thinking that may not be the solution for the typical not-computer-technical user... Now... thinking of it for a moment, I'd guess automation solutions will be rapidly developing anyway... so they may evolve to be mainstream....
In my opinion within 3 years the first question the average user is going to ask when they buy a new piece of audio gear is not "will it work with my favorite streaming service?" but rather "will it work with my homes device ecosystem?". Technologies like Smart things, Hue, Nest, Wink, and so on (or their successors in some cases) will be considered simple, pervasive, and even necessary to the regular "non-techie" user who will view music listening as part of their integrated home tech experience.
For a preview just note how many car commercials emphasize the tech features in a new vehicle more than they do performance and handling. Home tech is on a trajectory to assume a similar dominance.
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