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Update on the Sonos App from Patrick Spence

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  • July 25, 2024
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Update on the Sonos App from Patrick Spence
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986 replies

press250
Forum|alt.badge.img+14
  • press250
  • Prodigy III
  • August 12, 2024

I’d be very surprised if most consumer routers had an ntp server service in them.

The router itself will have an ntp client to update its own time, but for home/smb use it’s a server package and config that would be an unnecessary thing for the manufacturer to include and provide.

Confirmed @sigh, I’ve never seen a consumer Wi-Fi router serve as an in-house NTP server. Also worth noting that clients/devices will not ‘inherit’ their NTP server from a Wi-Fi router, so if you want everything under your roof to sync with the same NTP server (a nice-to-have, not a must-have) you’ll need to make that assignment across all your devices.

As an aside, I recently discovered that my Windows machine was not performing scheduled NTP syncs. Appears that the requisite “Windows Time” service is not necessarily started by default. Quick fix …

https://helpdeskgeek.com/how-to/how-to-fix-time-synchronization-failed-in-windows/

    R
    Forum|alt.badge.img+18
    • Rhonny
    • Prodigy II
    • August 12, 2024

    I’d be very surprised if most consumer routers had an ntp server service in them.

    The router itself will have an ntp client to update its own time, but for home/smb use it’s a server package and config that would be an unnecessary thing for the manufacturer to include and provide.

    Confirmed @sigh, I’ve never seen a consumer Wi-Fi router serve as an in-house NTP server. Also worth noting that clients/devices will not ‘inherit’ their NTP server from a Wi-Fi router, so if you want everything under your roof to sync with the same NTP server (a nice-to-have, not a must-have) you’ll need to make that assignment across all your devices.

    As an aside, I recently discovered that my Windows machine was not performing scheduled NTP syncs. Appears that the requisite “Windows Time” service is not necessarily started by default. Quick fix …

    https://helpdeskgeek.com/how-to/how-to-fix-time-synchronization-failed-in-windows/

     

    My Technicolor DGA4135 router has the following - access to NTP servers, it’s not an NTP server in itself. But my understanding (and experience from device fails) was that the router requires access to the NTP server to establish the time on certain devices. My question was whether the OP re. alarms was missing access and so the Sonos wasn’t able to determine the time... But if that is not the case then I will be on my way. (Not sure how this thread became so off-track!)

     

     

    press250
    Forum|alt.badge.img+14
    • press250
    • Prodigy III
    • August 12, 2024

    Hi @Rhonny, I think Sonos devices are “hardcoded” to a specific NTP server. I suppose it is possible that privacy filtering (see below) could prevent that synchronization. And then there is the separate matter of setting the correct timezone.

     

      sigh
      Forum|alt.badge.img+9
      • sigh
      • Prodigy II
      • August 12, 2024

      I’d be very surprised if most consumer routers had an ntp server service in them.

      The router itself will have an ntp client to update its own time, but for home/smb use it’s a server package and config that would be an unnecessary thing for the manufacturer to include and provide.

      Confirmed @sigh, I’ve never seen a consumer Wi-Fi router serve as an in-house NTP server. Also worth noting that clients/devices will not ‘inherit’ their NTP server from a Wi-Fi router, so if you want everything under your roof to sync with the same NTP server (a nice-to-have, not a must-have) you’ll need to make that assignment across all your devices.

      As an aside, I recently discovered that my Windows machine was not performing scheduled NTP syncs. Appears that the requisite “Windows Time” service is not necessarily started by default. Quick fix …

      https://helpdeskgeek.com/how-to/how-to-fix-time-synchronization-failed-in-windows/

       

      My Technicolor DGA4135 router has the following - access to NTP servers, it’s not an NTP server in itself. But my understanding (and experience from device fails) was that the router requires access to the NTP server to establish the time on certain devices. My question was whether the OP re. alarms was missing access and so the Sonos wasn’t able to determine the time... But if that is not the case then I will be on my way. (Not sure how this thread became so off-track!)

       

       

      Ah, I think I know what you mean.

      The router could be an indicator that there is a problem between your ISP connection and time servers. If it has ntp servers set but the router can’t keep the correct time it potentially means anything on your network that is also needing to connect to the internet ntp servers are likely to have a hard time.

      Winchesterclub
      Forum|alt.badge.img+2
      • Winchesterclub
      • Trending Lyricist I
      • August 12, 2024

      So is worth downloading the App ? , i have resisted this long !

       

      Regards

      If you are on 16.1 app and firmware I wouldn’t download it unless you are going to buy new products like the ace

       

      Thanks , how do find which version you are on skullc ?

      Oh my good gawd Terry
      Winchesterclub
      Forum|alt.badge.img+2
      • Winchesterclub
      • Trending Lyricist I
      • August 12, 2024

      So is worth downloading the App ? , i have resisted this long !

       

      Regards

      If you are on 16.1 app and firmware I wouldn’t download it unless you are going to buy new products like the ace

       

      Thanks , how do find which version you are on skullc ?

      I have seen this when looking at app

      version 80.06.04-release+20240801.4ae19ff

       

      Oh my good gawd Terry
      skullc
      Forum|alt.badge.img+13
      • skullc
      • Prodigy III
      • August 12, 2024

      So is worth downloading the App ? , i have resisted this long !

       

      Regards

      If you are on 16.1 app and firmware I wouldn’t download it unless you are going to buy new products like the ace

       

      Thanks , how do find which version you are on skullc ?

      In system/ about my system 

       

      Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
        skullc
        Forum|alt.badge.img+13
        • skullc
        • Prodigy III
        • August 12, 2024

        So is worth downloading the App ? , i have resisted this long !

         

        Regards

        If you are on 16.1 app and firmware I wouldn’t download it unless you are going to buy new products like the ace

         

        Thanks , how do find which version you are on skullc ?

        I have seen this when looking at app

        version 80.06.04-release+20240801.4ae19ff

         

        Then update is all you can do I am afraid 

        Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
          Winchesterclub
          Forum|alt.badge.img+2
          • Winchesterclub
          • Trending Lyricist I
          • August 12, 2024

          So is worth downloading the App ? , i have resisted this long !

           

          Regards

          If you are on 16.1 app and firmware I wouldn’t download it unless you are going to buy new products like the ace

           

          Thanks , how do find which version you are on skullc ?

          I have seen this when looking at app

          version 80.06.04-release+20240801.4ae19ff

           

          Then update is all you can do I am afraid 

          Well not really a thumbs up !!

          But thanks for Info....😳

          Oh my good gawd Terry
          sigh
          Forum|alt.badge.img+9
          • sigh
          • Prodigy II
          • August 12, 2024

          Hi @Rhonny, I think Sonos devices are “hardcoded” to a specific NTP server. I suppose it is possible that privacy filtering (see below) could prevent that synchronization. And then there is the separate matter of setting the correct timezone.

           

          I’m going to lean towards the time zone being set by the App updating the speakers behind the scenes. Could also do the time if they drift too far. Rather than a button on an admin web interface offering to sync the time from the local device, the app could just do it as the controller and speakers need to be in the same location.

          skullc
          Forum|alt.badge.img+13
          • skullc
          • Prodigy III
          • August 12, 2024

          @Winchesterclub 

          no problem sorry to be the bearer of bad news but your only option is to update the app and the firmware until they have fixed everything 

          I do not use the app anymore I use a WiiM mini for all my music streaming now and Sono+ widget app for volume and grouping speakers now

          sonos are dumb powered speakers for me😊

          good luck with your system 👍

          Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
            M
            • marazas
            • Lyricist II
            • August 12, 2024

            Everyday is a rollercoaster ride. It works one day and then it goes haywire. Ques go empty , speakers drop out , voice assistant stops working. It seems to me that this is a much bigger problem than SONOS wants to admit. It will absolutely erode customer confidence going forward. 

              B
              • B Primrose
              • Lyricist II
              • August 12, 2024

              Still not functioning. Disaster. And I've been with Sonos for 13 years. 

                S
                Forum|alt.badge.img+2
                • ss1234
                • Trending Lyricist II
                • August 12, 2024

                Thanks @Rhonny and @Ken_Griffiths for trying to help. I’ve just checked and both the iOS app and the Sonos system are up to date (both are set to auto update as well). All the speakers are on 16.3.1 build 80.1-55240.
                 

                if the issue is to do with the timezone data not being available for the speaker, do you know how I might be able to resolve this please?

                Thanks a lot for your support

                 

                You can set the time zone in Settings>Manage>Date and Time 

                 

                Thanks. I checked and the date & time is set correctly in the Sonos Settings

                MoPac
                Forum|alt.badge.img+18
                • MoPac
                • Headliner III
                • August 12, 2024

                Winchesterclub: 

                 And how about that WiiM Home app continuously being updated.  Just got the Ultra.  Nice piece.

                  skullc
                  Forum|alt.badge.img+13
                  • skullc
                  • Prodigy III
                  • August 12, 2024

                  Winchesterclub: 

                   And how about that WiiM Home app continuously being updated.  Just got the Ultra.  Nice piece.

                  I think you meant me I use WiiM him not so much 😜

                  Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
                    B
                    • B Primrose
                    • Lyricist II
                    • August 12, 2024

                    Can't believe I've had more than 12 years of troublefree Sonos and the last 6 months just screwed up. Not just irritating - infuriating after all this investment in this hitherto beautiful system. Heads must roll!!!

                      MoPac
                      Forum|alt.badge.img+18
                      • MoPac
                      • Headliner III
                      • August 12, 2024

                       skulic:

                       My boo boo.  Maybe Winchesterclub should use WiiM as well.

                        press250
                        Forum|alt.badge.img+14
                        • press250
                        • Prodigy III
                        • August 12, 2024

                        I’m going to lean towards the time zone being set by the App updating the speakers behind the scenes. Could also do the time if they drift too far. Rather than a button on an admin web interface offering to sync the time from the local device, the app could just do it as the controller and speakers need to be in the same location.

                        Hi @sigh, I’m seeing each of my Sonos devices generate NTP requests to a trio of external servers. At least once per hour, which seems … excessive?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

                        S
                        Forum|alt.badge.img+1
                        • StefanT
                        • Trending Lyricist I
                        • August 12, 2024

                        And if you cant find any players at all????……

                        Then in some cases it may be a local network issue, it might be that the mDNS discovery of devices by the controller is not working that can sometimes be security software running on the mobile device (ie VPN client as an example) or it can be the implementation of managed switches, WiFi range extenders or EoP adapters or possibly an incompatible router. The devices might even be listed within a different Sonos Household ID .. the answer is if you can ping your devices on the subnet, then perhaps use other methods (temporarily) to play audio on your devices, such as…

                        • Airplay 2 (useful for grouping speakers too)
                        • Direct Control (PlexAmp/Spotify/Amazon Apps/iBroadcast/Emby)
                        • Bluetooth Audio
                        • UPnP/DLNA
                        • Alexa Voice Services (useful for grouping speakers too)
                        • Google Voice Services 
                        • Sonos Voice Control (useful for grouping speakers too)
                        • TV Apps (YouTube/Chromecast/Plex)
                        • Line-In audio
                        • 3rd Party Apps (Soro/SonoPhone/Orto etc.) (useful for grouping speakers too)

                        Meanwhile you mentioned in an earlier post that a level-2 Sonos Support Staff member was looking into your case, so just wait for them to get back in touch, or if you prefer, contact Sonos Support and get an update on the issue you reported. Either way you will need to resolve the access before setting up your library share using the steps provided in my earlier post.

                        I’m just working with network security… so just stop telling me I have a network issue!!!

                        S
                        Forum|alt.badge.img+1
                        • StefanT
                        • Trending Lyricist I
                        • August 12, 2024

                        Initial vs. sustained are often different. 

                        The next quarter will no doubt be the one where if people have stopped investing in extending systems, or have returned products due to the app issues, we’ll see a better picture. 

                        Also, it appears that word is spreading amongst tech sites, bloggers, reviewers, best buy guides etc. that Sonos is no longer the go-to solution because of the issues, and that is more likely to hit in the run up to Xmas, not to mention the distrust they are building up in the professional installation community where Sonos have hung installers out to dry. 

                        The next quarter has the potential to be very poor, and not just because they have had to delay new products. 

                        Who would love to buy a Sonos product as Christmas gift after this???…..

                        I
                        Forum|alt.badge.img+13
                        • Ian_S
                        • Prodigy III
                        • August 12, 2024

                        Initial vs. sustained are often different. 

                        The next quarter will no doubt be the one where if people have stopped investing in extending systems, or have returned products due to the app issues, we’ll see a better picture. 

                        Also, it appears that word is spreading amongst tech sites, bloggers, reviewers, best buy guides etc. that Sonos is no longer the go-to solution because of the issues, and that is more likely to hit in the run up to Xmas, not to mention the distrust they are building up in the professional installation community where Sonos have hung installers out to dry. 

                        The next quarter has the potential to be very poor, and not just because they have had to delay new products. 

                        Who would love to buy a Sonos product as Christmas gift after this???…..

                        Ken & Rhonny? 

                          E
                          Forum|alt.badge.img+4
                          • edmountain
                          • Prodigy I
                          • August 12, 2024

                          Can't believe I've had more than 12 years of troublefree Sonos and the last 6 months just screwed up. Not just irritating - infuriating after all this investment in this hitherto beautiful system. Heads must roll!!!

                          The new app was released only 3 months ago so if you've had issues for 6 months you need to place the blame elsewhere.

                            R
                            Forum|alt.badge.img+18
                            • Rhonny
                            • Prodigy II
                            • August 12, 2024

                            Initial vs. sustained are often different. 

                            The next quarter will no doubt be the one where if people have stopped investing in extending systems, or have returned products due to the app issues, we’ll see a better picture. 

                            Also, it appears that word is spreading amongst tech sites, bloggers, reviewers, best buy guides etc. that Sonos is no longer the go-to solution because of the issues, and that is more likely to hit in the run up to Xmas, not to mention the distrust they are building up in the professional installation community where Sonos have hung installers out to dry. 

                            The next quarter has the potential to be very poor, and not just because they have had to delay new products. 

                            Who would love to buy a Sonos product as Christmas gift after this???…..

                            Ken & Rhonny? 

                            Probably. Certainly a gift for myself. That’s the benefit of having a fully functioning Sonos system. 

                              Ken_Griffiths

                              Yeah, it’ll be a Beam (gen2) for me - My son wants the Beam (gen1) that’s in the Main Bedroom at the moment, so I’ve told him he can have it when I upgrade.

                              That will then allow me to swap-out the bedroom surrounds for Era-300s, which I have already in the Kitchen (called Polo in my setup). 

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