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Port Fixed vs Variable from DVD player/Pre amp

Mdhowes
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Hi all. This may not make any sense but recently while playing CDs on a cheap DVD/CD player the sound cuts off periodically but ONLY when running through the line in of the port and ONLY when the port is set to Pass through from my pre amp. If I set the port to variable the music does not cut out. It should also be noted that on my metered pre amp the VU meters seem to always have a signal in that there is always movement. The CD player is connected to the pre amp via RCA cables and not into my pre amps DAC via coaxial cable as I am not sure my pre amp DAC works. Any ideas?

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Best answer by Mdhowes 25 March 2024, 15:15

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Corry P
Userlevel 7
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Hi @Mdhowes 

Thanks for your post! Sorry to hear you’re having problems listening to CDs via your Port. The details of your report are quite strange, so, for testing, let’s simplify things a little.

Please connect the DVD/CD player directly to the Port instead of via the pre-amp (and by “pre-amp” I’m hoping you’re referring to an input selector for a power-amp rather than a device for amplifying a turntable signal up to Line level?) do you still get the same behaviour? If so, please replace the DVD/CD player with another source for testing (another Line-level device with RCA connections, if you have one, or perhaps an old smartphone with a headphone socket, if you have the right type of cable) - if another source behaves “properly”, then a replacement DVD/CD may be in order. On the other hand, if everything behaves when you no longer use the pre-amp, then that may be the only answer needed.

If you get the same behaviour no matter what you do, please try rebooting the Port (feel free to try this before anything else - it’s just the way I’ve ended up writing this) and if the behaviour continues, either just keep the Port on Variable setting, or get in touch with our technical support team who have tools at their disposal that will allow them to give you advice specific to your Sonos system and what it reports. It’ll be best to bypass the pre-amp before getting in touch, as the team will want things to be as simple as possible too.

A final point - the output of a digital device like a DVD/CD player should be silence when not actively playing. The player may simply be faulty if the pre-amp reads constant variation from it when it’s not even playing, or there may be significant levels of interference from nearby power cables (and insufficient shielding on the audio cables).

I hope this helps.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
Mdhowes
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Hi @Mdhowes 

Thanks for your post! Sorry to hear you’re having problems listening to CDs via your Port. The details of your report are quite strange, so, for testing, let’s simplify things a little.

Please connect the DVD/CD player directly to the Port instead of via the pre-amp (and by “pre-amp” I’m hoping you’re referring to an input selector for a power-amp rather than a device for amplifying a turntable signal up to Line level?) do you still get the same behaviour? If so, please replace the DVD/CD player with another source for testing (another Line-level device with RCA connections, if you have one, or perhaps an old smartphone with a headphone socket, if you have the right type of cable) - if another source behaves “properly”, then a replacement DVD/CD may be in order. On the other hand, if everything behaves when you no longer use the pre-amp, then that may be the only answer needed.

If you get the same behaviour no matter what you do, please try rebooting the Port (feel free to try this before anything else - it’s just the way I’ve ended up writing this) and if the behaviour continues, either just keep the Port on Variable setting, or get in touch with our technical support team who have tools at their disposal that will allow them to give you advice specific to your Sonos system and what it reports. It’ll be best to bypass the pre-amp before getting in touch, as the team will want things to be as simple as possible too.

A final point - the output of a digital device like a DVD/CD player should be silence when not actively playing. The player may simply be faulty if the pre-amp reads constant variation from it when it’s not even playing, or there may be significant levels of interference from nearby power cables (and insufficient shielding on the audio cables).

I hope this helps.

Thanks Corry. I will look into this in a bit. I should however mention that my TT plays fine from the MM pre out using the same Pre Amp. I guess that is an indicator in itself that the DVD/CD player (admittedly cheap) may be the culprit. My Pre-Amp is a Mcintosh C 2500. the connections : CD player/ TT using MM cartridge > Mcintosh C2500 > Sonos PORT > Bryston 4B (soon to be Mcintosh MC452 > Paradigm Founders. Cheers

Airgetlam

As @Corry P suggests, the turntable should be connected to the pre-amp, the CD/DVD player should not. 

The turntable puts out a Phono level signal, the CD/DVD player puts out a line level signal. Here is a good reference between Phono and Line levels. All Sonos line-ins are looking for line level data, which is why putting the CD/DVD player through the pre-amp won’t work, it will boost the signal too much. 

Were I you, and wanted both devices connected to my Port, I’d put a basic A/B switch connecting to the Port, and put the pre-Amp and turntable on the A input, and the CD/DVD player on the B input. 

 

Bruce
Mdhowes
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Hi @Airgetlam . I am not sure @Corry P is suggesting that the Cd player be connected directly to the Port. I think it was just for a process of elimination to determine the reason for my query. As the Port can only receive Line level input regardless of the source a pre amplifier is certainly an acceptable source regardless if it is used with either a TT or another source of audio. I of course could also connect the Port to the Pre amp input and use it as another SOURCE of audio but then I cannot route the other audio sources to the rest of my Sonos Ecosystem. I CAN however connect my SONOS Connect to the 2nd pre amp output (My preamp has 2 output options both of which can run simultaneously) should I decide to “port” the Cd or TT music to the rest of my home. Hopefully this made sense? Thanks

Airgetlam

If your ‘pre-amp’ is acting on the line level input of the CD/DVD player, it will be boosting that signal into a higher level input (and likely distorted in some way) that the Sonos Port will have trouble with. A pre-amp is only designed for use with a turntable that does not have a built in pre-amp.

If your device is not a pre-amp, but instead another device that has both a phono level input, and a line level input, that would work fine. The phono input would receive the amplification to line level that the Sonos Port is expecting, the line level input (which the CD player is attached to) would pass through an appropriate line level signal.

Short and sweet, a turntable needs to be pre-amped before going to a Sonos line in, virtually every other device does not, and should not. 

Bruce
Mdhowes
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If your ‘pre-amp’ is acting on the line level input of the CD/DVD player, it will be boosting that signal into a higher level input (and likely distorted in some way) that the Sonos Port will have trouble with. A pre-amp is only designed for use with a turntable that does not have a built in pre-amp.

If your device is not a pre-amp, but instead another device that has both a phono level input, and a line level input, that would work fine. The phono input would receive the amplification to line level that the Sonos Port is expecting, the line level input (which the CD player is attached to) would pass through an appropriate line level signal.

Short and sweet, a turntable needs to be pre-amped before going to a Sonos line in, virtually every other device does not, and should not. 

@Airgetlam Thanks for the reply. Further adds to my point of running the Port INTO my pre amp as a source. Then I have my choice of 1: Streaming all my favourites. 2: Playing my TT and 3: Playing CDs. This is why I have purchased a separate (and quite expensive ) Pre amp. Cheers

Airgetlam

The McIntosh C2500 isnt a normal pre-amp, and I wouldn’t call it such. I would call it a switch, but I’m not McIntosh. It does appear to have a pre-amp in it, for the phono inputs. But the rest of those inputs are line level. 

Most people, when they use the term pre-amplifier, mean this sort of thing. That’s what was confusing me about your post. 

Bruce
Mdhowes
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The McIntosh C2500 isnt a normal pre-amp, and I wouldn’t call it such. I would call it a switch, but I’m not McIntosh. It does appear to have a pre-amp in it, for the phono inputs. But the rest of those inputs are line level. 

Most people, when they use the term pre-amplifier, mean this sort of thing. That’s what was confusing me about your post. 

Sorry but I wholehearted disagree that my Pre amp isn't a pre amp? It is precisely that

 

Airgetlam

It’s certainly labeled as such by McIntosh. But it isn’t what the vast majority of users mean when they use the term. 

Bruce
106rallye
Userlevel 7
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Looking at the pictures I would certainly describe it as a preamplifier+.

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

I’d call it a pre-amplifier too, I’ve had several that are similar. I did note the dual connections for MC and MM phono cartridges which is a much nicer solution than a switch.

My experience goes way back to when a pre-amplifier and amplifier was the norm, the new integrated pre-amplifier/amplifier receivers were a new and in many opinions a lesser quality option.

Today many folks aren’t aware of the older tech and don’t immediately recognize the difference in a full featured (volume control and input switching) pre-amplifier (with or without RIAA phono inputs) and a dedicated RIAA phono only pre-amplifier.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
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Hi @Mdhowes 

If your turntable plays through the pre-amp/input-selector without issue while your CD/DVD player does not, that would indeed be an indication to me that the issue is with the CD/DVD player itself, as you say. I suppose it’s not entirely inconceivable that it’s a combination of the CD/DVD player and the pre-amp/input-selector, but my money would be on it being one or the other, and it sounds so far that it’s the CD/DVD player that’s responsible for the issue you hear.

I hope this helps.

 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
Mdhowes
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Hi @Mdhowes 

If your turntable plays through the pre-amp/input-selector without issue while your CD/DVD player does not, that would indeed be an indication to me that the issue is with the CD/DVD player itself, as you say. I suppose it’s not entirely inconceivable that it’s a combination of the CD/DVD player and the pre-amp/input-selector, but my money would be on it being one or the other, and it sounds so far that it’s the CD/DVD player that’s responsible for the issue you hear.

I hope this helps.

 

Hi @Corry P . SOLVED. Yesterday I ended up running a touslink cable out of A Sonos Connect into the C2500 DAC as well as A Coax cable out of my CD player into my C2500 and was rewarded with uninterrupted and noticeably better musical bliss. Here is the funny thing CD player issue aside. The Sonos Connect is a source like my TT and CD player to my Preamp. From the Pre Amp I have Fed into a Sonos PORT which in turn is Y connected to both a powered SUB AND my Bryston 4 B (Soon to be MC452 Mcintosh) and then out to my Speakers. Now I have 2 options for streaming. 1 is using main system only via the DAC connected Sonos Connect with Preamp control OR any of the Preamp input sources through the PORT and therein my entire Sonos ecosystem (ARC,SUB, PLAY ones, Beam etc). I am not going to lie, I had considered getting a BS node to perform the front end task but am now satisfied with my current setup. After all, I really dont need any more clutter :)

 

Corry P
Userlevel 7
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Hi @Mdhowes 

I am glad to hear you got things working to your satisfaction! Thanks for updating the thread!

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
Mdhowes
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@Corry P . Hey! Question for ya. If I run my sources from the preamp through to the Sonos Port set to variable am I in effect doubling the EQ capacities? (Pre amp control and EQ through to Sonos set with EQ enabled)? Cheers

 

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

It looks that way.

https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/port

Since Sonos doesn’t allow copy/paste I did a screenshot:

 

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @Mdhowes 

I think so, yes - personally, I would keep one EQ flat at all times. Adjust whichever one is easiest to adjust.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

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