Am I the only one that finds the new privacy statement disturbing? I cannot recall ever being told when I bought my seven products over a period of time that Sonos had the right to threaten disabling my property if I didn't pass over personal information. Does anyone in the UK know if, by law, they can blackmail consumers in this way, post-purchase?
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The concern is the alleged coming inabillaty to opt out and eventual loss of function.
No, that's what you're talking about, but that isn't what would be concerning you. What about the information you'd be sharing is concerning? I'm not baiting you. I'm trying to understand what of that information is upsetting because it looks benign to me.
If it's so clear then why are people arguing about it.
I guarantee Sonos will sell this information.
Some people aren't technical, and it's easy for them to misunderstand things when technical concepts are in play. Prime example, the original poster appeared worried about providing his zip code, not realizing that his IP (unless thru a proxy) is basically giving that away and more every time he connects.
To the second point, you guarantee nothing. You're posting baseless conjecture because there's no actual evidence of what you said. And this is the other reason people get confused. Misinformation.
Voice activation will be working with Amazon Alexa. So your existing Sonos Speaker will not listen to you, it will only be controlled by Amazon Alexa.
To summarize what Smilja posted - Sonos will have to exchange technical details about the operation of your Sonos gear with the partner (ie Alexa/Amazon). You don't have to let Sonos exchange this information, and all you have to do to prevent it is to not use it, or disable it if you have used it before. Just that easy.
[quote=Skelton]
No, that's what you're talking about, but that isn't what would be concerning you.
When you presume to assume what would be concerning to me it is difficult to have a constructive conversation.:?
What also concerns me is that I must agree to the privacy policy as written today, but when we are forced to agree we also agree to all future versions:
"Sonos may modify or update this Statement when necessary to reflect customer feedback and changes in our Products and Service; so, please review it periodically. When we update this Statement, we will revise the “Last Updated” date at the top of the Statement. If there are material changes to the Statement or in how Sonos uses your personal data, we will notify you either by posting a notice of such changes before they take effect or by sending you a notification. We encourage you to periodically review this Statement to learn more about how Sonos is using and protecting your information. Your continued use of the Service or Products after any modification to this Statement will constitute your acceptance of such modification and updates."
They will not require explicit consent for changes going forward.
No, that's what you're talking about, but that isn't what would be concerning you.
When you presume to assume what would be concerning to me it is difficult to have a constructive conversation.:?
What also concerns me is that I must agree to the privacy policy as written today, but when we are forced to agree we also agree to all future versions:
"Sonos may modify or update this Statement when necessary to reflect customer feedback and changes in our Products and Service; so, please review it periodically. When we update this Statement, we will revise the “Last Updated” date at the top of the Statement. If there are material changes to the Statement or in how Sonos uses your personal data, we will notify you either by posting a notice of such changes before they take effect or by sending you a notification. We encourage you to periodically review this Statement to learn more about how Sonos is using and protecting your information. Your continued use of the Service or Products after any modification to this Statement will constitute your acceptance of such modification and updates."
They will not require explicit consent for changes going forward.
Where is this new policy statement. I've received nothing ... is it US only?
You will need to agree to this going forward, not US only.
http://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy
http://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy
What also concerns me is that I must agree to the privacy policy as written today, but when we are forced to agree we also agree to all future versions:
Then don't agree. Simple as that. There are customers out there still using rather ancient Sonos software versions due to certain music service incompatibilities with newer versions (Audible springs to mind, just as an example). You won't cripple your currently used controllers if you keep running older software versions.
Save a backup copy of the installation files for said software controller versions and disable automatic updates on your system to prevent accidental updates. Oh, and tell the wife to not click on 'Update'. 😉
I'm a bit confused here as well. Sonos was always collecting data from it's users and you've not been able to opt-out before besides not accepting the T&As and that won't let you use Sonos. I guess the other way would have been to delete your Sonos account and that will have the same effect, you're unable to use Sonos. So there is no change at all.
When you presume to assume what would be concerning to me it is difficult to have a constructive conversation.:?
I'm trying to be respectful, but I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse or not.
It's not rational to suggest that your concern would actually be with the lack of an opt out. Obviously, you have to be concerned about some information you can no longer opt out of sharing. I simply don't know how else to say that.
They will not require explicit consent for changes going forward.
I can appreciate your concern here. However, I would inform you that essentially every single agreement you've ever seen has that same verbiage though.
Examples:
https://www.chase.com/digital/resources/privacy-security/privacy/online-privacy-policy - Scroll to the end.
https://www.bose.com/en_us/support/policies.html - Look for Changed Terms.
It's worth noting that isn't even a new line in the Sonos privacy policy. Here's the exact wording from Nov 2014:
Notice of changes to this policy
Sonos will update this privacy policy statement from time to time. When we do, we will revise the "last updated" date at the bottom of this page. For changes to the privacy statement that we deem to be material, we will notify you by placing a prominent notice on home page of the Sonos.com site.
So, if you weren't concerned about that in the past, then it wouldn't seem to warrant this high level of anxiety.
I have just updated to 7.4 and clicked to accept the new policy with as little thought as I do to all the endless Terms and Condition to which too I do the "I agree", for all the apps/software that I buy/license. I can't be bothered to read or lose sleep over these things - I have realised that if I truly did, I would have to go offline from every grid and Wifi network and live in splendid isolation, with or without the tinfoil hat, as some may want to. As for the rest of us, the privacy concern horse has bolted a long time ago.
I just don't want voice to allow real time eavesdropping on what is being spoken in the home, and I am sure there are ways to ensure that.
I just don't want voice to allow real time eavesdropping on what is being spoken in the home, and I am sure there are ways to ensure that.
So, when I went to get the update it referred me to this page: http://www.sonos.com/en-us/software/release/7-4 where I could read the full release notes. The release notes are there; but the new privacy policy is not. Where is the policy so I can read it before accepting it?
Interestingly, there's a banner on their main web page.....except hidden underneath the banner for a free delivery offer.
If you click on the banner for the free delivery, you're taken to a webpage that has the privacy banner on it. And, if you click on that, it takes you to http://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy
Just to mention, this link to the privacy legal notice is as the bottom of every web page on sonos.com (scroll down on this page!)
If you click on the banner for the free delivery, you're taken to a webpage that has the privacy banner on it. And, if you click on that, it takes you to http://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy
Just to mention, this link to the privacy legal notice is as the bottom of every web page on sonos.com (scroll down on this page!)
Well, now you have: https://www.extremetech.com/electronics/254561-sonos-accept-new-privacy-policy-well-brick-device
Well, now you have: https://www.extremetech.com/electronics/254561-sonos-accept-new-privacy-policy-well-brick-device
[i] “f a customer chooses not to acknowledge the privacy statement, the customer will not be able to update the software on their Sonos system, and over time the functionality of the product will decrease,” a company spokesperson told ZDNet. “The customer can choose to acknowledge the policy, or can accept that over time their product may cease to function.”
Resistance is futile.:8
Have you or beynym read the ACTUAL statement yet? Not the device will "brick" in the case, the RESPECTIVE SERVICE will instead:
Direct Control or Voice Control Functionality
Sonos will share a subset of this data with partners that you have specifically authorized to receive such data in order to ensure that the voice or direct control functionality is working properly. If you wish for us to stop collection of this information or sharing it with the parties you have authorized, simply disable the feature (for example disable voice control) or unlink the feature (for example unlink your home automation remote) from your Sonos Products. Conversely, voice control functionality will not work unless you authorize us to collect and process the data as outlined in this section.
That borg reference wasn't meant to be taken too seriously.
I shall add irony tags for the humourly impaired in future posts. 😉
I shall add irony tags for the humourly impaired in future posts. 😉
Well, now you have: https://www.extremetech.com/electronics/254561-sonos-accept-new-privacy-policy-well-brick-device
Any truth in the bold portion gleaned from another site? The other information is fine, but is identifying information being brought to mother ship?
That "functional data" includes email addresses, IP addresses, and account login information -- as well as device data, information about Wi-Fi antennas and other hardware information, room names, and error data.
That "functional data" includes email addresses, IP addresses, and account login information -- as well as device data, information about Wi-Fi antennas and other hardware information, room names, and error data.
That "functional data" includes email addresses, IP addresses, and account login information -- as well as device data, information about Wi-Fi antennas and other hardware information, room names, and error data.
First, everyone can read the Privacy Policy for themselves. You don't need it to be parsed for you because it's actually quite straightforward language. Here's the link to the US page:
http://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy
Now let's get into the question and potentially the misunderstanding being driven by these articles. Sonos is going to collect all of this information:
We collect:
Registration data. This data includes your email address, location, language preference, Product serial number, IP address, and Sonos account login information (as described above).
System data. This data includes things like Product type, controller device type, operating system of controller, software version information, content source (audio line in), signal input (for example, whether your TV outputs a specific audio signal such as Dolby to your Sonos system), information about wifi antennas, audio settings (such as equalization or stereo pair), Product orientation, room names you have assigned to your Sonos Product, whether your product has been tuned using Sonos Trueplay technology, and error information.
Now, I'm betting that most of you aren't alarmed by that list, but let's briefly touch on the things you might have questioned.
Email address is part and parcel of the rest of your registration. The location and IP address allow Sonos to ensure compliance with regional authorities, and to make sure you're who you say you are.
The rest of it isn't actually in any way identifying.
So, I'll ask the same question I've brought up in the other thread. What exactly in this language is concerning? I've not come across anything I thought was disconcerting, nor have I found anything to be ambiguous or unusual.
I'm not concerned, so I can't answer Skelton's question.
However, I do thinks it's worth mentioning that it makes sense to me that device data and such is necessary information to gather in order for voice activation to work. Alexa cannot tell your speaker to do something if it doesn't know it's there and what it's called. I am sure Amazon and other's have similar policies. Amazon may not need to know wifi related data, but it also isn't concerned with synchronization and such.
I think it's also rather disingenuous for these articles to stop at saying you cannot opt out of the policy. That is true, but doesn't give the accurate picture. The policy INCLUDES the ability to opt out of data collection. So yes, you have to accept the policy to use the latest version of the product, but you do not have to send Sonos all your data.
To be fair, I'm confused about what data is required and what's optional. That's not Sonos fault, there's a lot of misinformation going around. I would try and clear it up, but I'm just not concerned.
However, I do thinks it's worth mentioning that it makes sense to me that device data and such is necessary information to gather in order for voice activation to work. Alexa cannot tell your speaker to do something if it doesn't know it's there and what it's called. I am sure Amazon and other's have similar policies. Amazon may not need to know wifi related data, but it also isn't concerned with synchronization and such.
I think it's also rather disingenuous for these articles to stop at saying you cannot opt out of the policy. That is true, but doesn't give the accurate picture. The policy INCLUDES the ability to opt out of data collection. So yes, you have to accept the policy to use the latest version of the product, but you do not have to send Sonos all your data.
To be fair, I'm confused about what data is required and what's optional. That's not Sonos fault, there's a lot of misinformation going around. I would try and clear it up, but I'm just not concerned.
However, I do thinks it's worth mentioning that it makes sense to me that device data and such is necessary information to gather in order for voice activation to work. Alexa cannot tell your speaker to do something if it doesn't know it's there and what it's called.
Helpful point. There's nothing being collected that strikes me as outside the reasonable details necessary to make Sonos (and potential voice activation) function. I'm open to someone showing me what I've missed though.
I think it's also rather disingenuous for these articles to stop at saying you cannot opt out of the policy. That is true, but doesn't give the accurate picture.
Disingenuous is the most generous way to put it. Some of the stories are peddling outright falsehoods while others seem to omit much relevant detail.
Take ZDNet for example. Their parent company, CBS Interactive, collects far more personal information than Sonos, but that didn't work its way into their clickbait article. Sure, you have the option to opt out of some, but it's an extensive monitoring program. For what it's worth, their "policy change notification" is identical.
I'm curious about only the "Product Orientation" aspect of all that. Everything else makes perfect sense to me, especially as the collection of that data allows their support groups to help people here on these boards and elsewhere. Is the Product Orientation just a bit about how the Playbar is situated? It's the only device I can think of that would have something like that available. I'm pretty sure there's no way for Sonos to know that my Play:1s in my kitchen are mounted upside down....oops, I just told them. Dammit! 🙂
Yes, in that regard, they are referring to how the product is physically situated. The Play 5 also offers multiple orientations.
Except for components (Connect & Connect:AMP) and the Boost, all Sonos products come with a built-in orientation sensor.
Edit: just checked my zone players again. Pardon me, it's just the Play:5 which has an orientation sensor activated, though the support menu of each Play: speaker contains a section for said 'gravity sensor', even if not applicable. I suppose this is due to os programming.
Not to mention almost being unreadable. Next week there will be millions of third greaders writing "What I Did Over the Summer" essays using better grammar skills than that article.
Ah, I'd forgotten about the Play:5 orientation doohickey, good point. It does recognize which way it is tilted and modifies the output accordingly. Thanks for the reminder.
I meant "third graders". Good thing I wasn't criticizing their spelling. 😳
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