YOU WILL OWN NOTHING AND BE HAPPY...
In case no-one has noticed yet, local Music Libraries are now BROKEN with the 80.00.08 release. They disappeared from the IOS apps and an update to the Mac Desktop app errors out when trying to add them. (Error 913)
Standing ovation.
I noticed that the re-introduction of alarms actually required an update to Sonos devices as well as the app today. Does this mean that the new UI revamp was in fact much more than just a revamp to the UI? Are there currently bigger changes happening on the device side as well?
@Aleksander H
The app is definitely a revamp, but it’s not just the UI that changed! This new app is using new features on the speaker firmware and new cloud services as well. Let me share a bit more about what happened with alarm settings.
On the morning of the app launch, we discovered a data corruption error around the new Alarms APIs. The corruption could cause alarms to go off in the wrong room at the wrong volume with the wrong content! In order to save your alarms, we made the difficult decision to remotely disable the alarm settings feature and then completely lock it out. It allowed us to make sure your alarms stayed as they were - but at the steep cost of taking away your ability to change them yourself.
The team rallied to make sure we could turn this feature back on safely - and today we are so delighted to say that we have re-enabled alarm settings. To get this feature, you must do a full system update.
But that’s not how we expect to introduce features every time. We have built the new app to be able to update independently of the speaker firmware. As we go forward, you can expect us to bring out new features with smaller, less intrusive, updates.
Well, gee, you make it sound so heroic.
BUT WHY DIDN’T YOU JUST WAIT TO RELEASE IT, IN THAT CASE?!!!
This whole ordeal has been so frustrating, and your happy corporate speak is simply adding insult to your injured customers.
Please, for the love of god, just tell us why it was so important to release this app that you decided it was worth doing so without critical functionality your customers rely on? It makes zero sense! Was it board/management pressue? Was there some underlying security issue that still made the misery worth it?
As a customer, your behavior is inexplicable. Please treat us with respect and tell us WHY you decided pissing us all off was worth it. Nothing Sonos has said to date makes any sense.
Any update on if there will ever be lock screen, widget or live activity bar control for iOS users? The need to open the app to change songs or individual speaker volume is just absolutely bananas. I understand you can start in Spotify and get some of those functionalities, but come on, that should be a bare minimum feature of the system.
Today is the day of the AMA!
The new app design has been out for a week, and most of you have had a chance to get used to the new UI.
Some of you might have questions when you have had a week to get to know the new Sonos App interface. Because of that, we want to give you all a chance to ask some of the people who were integral in its creation and design, the questions that have come to mind while you have used the app.
As we mentioned in the event.
Our panelists will be:
- Diane Roberts, Senior Director of Software Development
- Kate Wojogbe, Senior Director of User Experience
- Tucker Severson, Director of Product Management
It will be hosted on the 14th of May from 11:00 until 14:00 GMT -07.
But instead of me telling you what they do and what their role with the app update has been, here are their own introductions:
Diane
Diane Roberts is the Senior Director of Software Engineering and Product Management at Sonos responsible for the Sonos Apps. Her group of cross-disciplinary teams build Configuration, Control, and Content experiences on a foundation of Core mobile application technologies. She received dual Bachelors’ of Science in Computer Science and Music from WPI. Diane holds 6 granted patents as a co-inventor.
Kate
As Senior Director of User Experience, Kate leads the UX team responsible for Sonos’ home audio hardware, software, and app user experiences. This includes user interfaces on speakers and soundbars, setup for hardware and services, first and third party content experiences, and a variety of methods of control of the Sonos system. Kate graduated from the University of California Los Angeles with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Design.
Tucker
Tucker Severson is the Director of Product Management and leads the PM team responsible for the Sonos Apps. Tucker received his BA from Bates College and his MBA from the University of Vermont.
We will do our best to answer as many of your questions as possible within the 3-hour window, but we can’t promise to answer every question, especially those you know we can’t discuss.
But if we see a question repeated or a reply getting a lot of likes, don’t worry. We will prioritize those to ensure that many people get the answers they seek.
Remember, we can’t talk about things on the roadmap - but if you have questions or feedback about the app redesign, want to know more about our panelists, like their background or favorite band, then the sky is the (cough cough.. NDA) limit!
Hello and welcome everyone,
Before getting started I’d like to thank you all for RSVPing and attending. This is the first of many events going forward where members of our Community can talk directly to members of the Sonos team and learn about the development and design behind our products. Keep in mind that@Mike R. H. and myself will be heavily monitoring this topic to ensure we keep this train on its tracks. Please keep the conversation respectful and constructive.
It’s not lost on me (or the team) that this most recent Sonos app update has caused a torrent of feedback topics here on the Community and across the web. We want to make sure you get the most out of the next three hours, so we’ve decided to focus our efforts on the questions with the most likes. Please use likes to “upvote” the question you want answered. By combining similar topics and questions, we will be able to cover more and hopefully cover the wide breadth of conversation you are looking for.
Note: Be sure to check out our most recent update to the Future Feature Update post where we will continue to update you on the road going forward.
Thank you and see you around the Community!
Keith
This quote is the best example I can think of, showing the arrogance behind this new version. Tucker, this is Not Us against Them!…. Were your users, were the people who built up an amazingly loyal Sonos Community, and the arrogance your team showed in the manner in which this whole sad chapter of the conp@ny’s history is staggering.
It’s not courage to release a poorly designed app that reflects appalling assumptions about what your user base wants. It’s not courageous to spend all that money on promoting this new version when you spent zero in showing users why it was so good, and HOW it is supposedly better. It is not. This is New Coke.
Show some real courage and allow users to roll back to the old version. That will show you just how badly your team misjudged this new version. It is New Coke. Admit you got it wrong. Show some humility.
It’s funny. This intro typifies the problem Sonos is facing. While you’re worried about the roadmap, your disenchanted Sonos community are looking for an Escape Route. The puffery behind the promotion of this new version is staggering and very unSonos. How about you spend a little of the money you wasted on tempting people to upgrade, on a serious, detailed User Guide…because this new version is NOT, in any way intuitive. It breaks every UI rule. I’ve been a dedicated Sonos user from almost the beninning, This a massive mistake. An app designed in an echo chamber, just like New Coke.
Forget the tin ear shown by leading with this quote. Give everyone a chance to vote with their feet ( hands) and allow us to reinstall the old version. Then you’ll really understand the backlash you’re getting.
Has the AMA team been sacked?
Well they should be this is pathetic
What has been the general mood of the Sonos team/staff since the new app was released? Was the team surprised at the negative reception or was it expected?
@GuitarSuperstar
Thanks for asking. We have all been deeply invested in this project for a long time. We are all Sonos owners. Many people on the team had Sonos in their homes before they joined the team. We all use the experience every day.
Any time we change an experience or delay a feature, we know that some people will have negative sentiments. We also saw in our usability testing that people appreciated the new user interface, adaptability, and faster time to music.
We have been reading your posts and seeing your feedback.
Once the release went live, the mood could be described as “energized.” The activity on the team is high as people share what they’ve built for the next releases. We are excited that we can bring these continuous regular updates. It’s easier and faster now for us to share what we’ve built with you. That started with today’s release and will continue on May 21st with releases to follow.
"We know that some people will have negative sentiments"…
In all seriousness can you just not say "sorry we made a mistake...." And STOP telling us how amazing the new app has been to work on. It's bad. It's difficult to use. And you can't q up the next song. The idea that the team is energised to share the latest thing they've built (which was what they killed) is truly *laughable*
You CANNOT look at this app. Sit back and go. "Cracking. Great job lads....! We've cracked it"
Just say sorry.....please acknowledge the error.....we're just begging you for some humanity.
Mod Edit: removed profanity
What has been the general mood of the Sonos team/staff since the new app was released? Was the team surprised at the negative reception or was it expected?
@GuitarSuperstar
Thanks for asking. We have all been deeply invested in this project for a long time. We are all Sonos owners. Many people on the team had Sonos in their homes before they joined the team. We all use the experience every day.
Any time we change an experience or delay a feature, we know that some people will have negative sentiments. We also saw in our usability testing that people appreciated the new user interface, adaptability, and faster time to music.
We have been reading your posts and seeing your feedback.
Once the release went live, the mood could be described as “energized.” The activity on the team is high as people share what they’ve built for the next releases. We are excited that we can bring these continuous regular updates. It’s easier and faster now for us to share what we’ve built with you. That started with today’s release and will continue on May 21st with releases to follow.
Surely, you are joking here. If all your team has Sonos kit in their homes, they would have all been moaning in the office - like the rest of your customers. Please stop treating your customers like fools.
“Faster time to music” is rubbish if you can’t control the group volume.
“Energized”. Is ‘energized’ another word for suicidal?
Where is the apology? Your feeds are all about ‘you’. It’s apparent that all the feedback being provided by your customers here is not injecting any humility into the Sonos folks on this AMA.
Two hours in and here we are (numbers in brackets are the count at 1 hour)
@DianeRobertsApps - 4 (0)
@KateW - 5 (3)
@tuckerseverson - 3 (2)
One has to wonder if they have to run every response past corporate laywers given the amount of time it seems to take them.
And some stats of my own counting:
Respect shown to customers - 0
Horrific discoveries - 2
- Data corruption issue in alarms didn’t stop a release.
- All speakers now available on the public internet protected only by a users password.
Feedback/suggestions actually taken by Sonos - 0
Destruction to the company’s goodwill: Priceless.
Not sure they had much of that to loose after the S1/S2 debacle.
In case no-one has noticed yet, local Music Libraries are now BROKEN with the 80.00.08 release. They disappeared from the IOS apps and an update to the Mac Desktop app errors out when trying to add them. (Error 913)
Standing ovation.
Nope — just did the upgrade, now more stable for me as they would come and go off the Home Screen. Now they are more usable for me.
I am very concerned with the lack of security. Specially since 90% of Sonos products have microphones built-in. All these speakers are now exposed to the web https://play.sonos.com. At minimum add 2FA before someone gets any funny ideas.
Hi @DianeRobertsApps can you confirm the reasoning behind the decision to “upgrade” S2 app rather than create a new S3 app with the new design and put S2 into maintenance mode as you did with S1 app?
Hi @KateW the UX of the new app is very laggy and unresponsive, frequently displaying error messages, please explain why it was released like this and what you are doing to resolve it.
Hi @DianeRobertsApps are you able to explain why Sonos decided to make the app cloud-based, what are the advantages apart from extra latency making the app seem slow?
Hi @Absolute40 ,
Regarding the idea of a separate app, the problem with this approach is that the functionality between these apps would diverge over time, leaving a large group of users with an out of date and potentially not fully supported experience.
Regarding responsiveness, I am sorry to hear you are having a bad experience. There are many factors that can contribute to this. We built the app to gather telemetry and data around these error states so we can continue to resolve issues for all users.
There are many advantages to using the cloud, but I’ll highlight one. With our new content services, we are able to provide a richer experience for discovering music to listen to. Our previous app was built on APIs that did not provide enough metadata to make that rich experience.
It’s also important to note that the app is not exclusively cloud-based. We still interact with the speakers on the local network, similar to the old app. We will be continuing to fine tune when we use cloud or local APIs. And we are already working on performance enhancements across the stack.
I want to downgrade to S1. But that isn't possible with the latest version and when trying with 16.1 it says I need the latest version.
At least S1 including its app worked (and isn't accessible via the internet 
).
Hopefully downgrading back to S1 is added soon.
What has been the general mood of the Sonos team/staff since the new app was released? Was the team surprised at the negative reception or was it expected?
@GuitarSuperstar
Thanks for asking. We have all been deeply invested in this project for a long time. We are all Sonos owners. Many people on the team had Sonos in their homes before they joined the team. We all use the experience every day.
Any time we change an experience or delay a feature, we know that some people will have negative sentiments. We also saw in our usability testing that people appreciated the new user interface, adaptability, and faster time to music.
We have been reading your posts and seeing your feedback.
Once the release went live, the mood could be described as “energized.” The activity on the team is high as people share what they’ve built for the next releases. We are excited that we can bring these continuous regular updates. It’s easier and faster now for us to share what we’ve built with you. That started with today’s release and will continue on May 21st with releases to follow.
@DianeRoberts thanks for taking the time to respond to these questions, but just interested to know (and I mean this seriously, not sarcastically) if any of the sonos owners there use their own library, and realised that removing all the functionality around that (with the exception of a very long scroll to get to ZZ Top) was something that should have been included from day one. of the new app? It seems from a lot of the forums (the sonos community, reddit, the press etc.) and comments here that there are a large number of users who use that functionality, and indeed bought their sonos systems just for that functionality.
Was that just a huge oversight by a team of people who only stream music, and never buy their own, or was there some other valid development reason for not including it… ?
@KateW
When the app was getting ready to be released, what were your personal feelings regarding the new app?
Did you anticipate that it would be so poorly received?
@Sam_5 Hi Sam - I've personally been excited to bring the experience to our users, but also understand that anytime you are making a change to an interface that someone uses, you're going to be met with a breadth of reactions, and understandably some negative ones, simply due to the nature of change. We knew that some customers would be understandably upset by the delay in certain features, but are eager to continue to roll out updates to ensure these features are in place, and to address the feedback we are getting from our users. I'm thankful to have an app that is easier for the team to work with and publish updates to with far greater frequency than we've had in the past.
How do i stop this AMA from emailing me every reply?????
Fix your notifications Dogg!
ordering some in wall loudspeakers for our new home, i told my girlfriend i was affraid to bind me to sonos. ( the s1/s2 debacle )
anyway, i have ordered them,... and i will return those items to the reseller.
lucky we did not install them yet
i cant trust a company making mistakes on this magnitude twice
its frustrating you cant play your own music ! can you imagine Sonos?
Hi @DianeRobertsApps can you confirm the reasoning behind the decision to “upgrade” S2 app rather than create a new S3 app with the new design and put S2 into maintenance mode as you did with S1 app?
Hi @KateW the UX of the new app is very laggy and unresponsive, frequently displaying error messages, please explain why it was released like this and what you are doing to resolve it.
Hi @DianeRobertsApps are you able to explain why Sonos decided to make the app cloud-based, what are the advantages apart from extra latency making the app seem slow?
Hi @Absolute40 ,
Regarding the idea of a separate app, the problem with this approach is that the functionality between these apps would diverge over time, leaving a large group of users with an out of date and potentially not fully supported experience.
Regarding responsiveness, I am sorry to hear you are having a bad experience. There are many factors that can contribute to this. We built the app to gather telemetry and data around these error states so we can continue to resolve issues for all users.
There are many advantages to using the cloud, but I’ll highlight one. With our new content services, we are able to provide a richer experience for discovering music to listen to. Our previous app was built on APIs that did not provide enough metadata to make that rich experience.
It’s also important to note that the app is not exclusively cloud-based. We still interact with the speakers on the local network, similar to the old app. We will be continuing to fine tune when we use cloud or local APIs. And we are already working on performance enhancements across the stack.
One thing there, having some fonctionality ( NAS playback) in the event my internet goes down is cool. Please make sure it fallback as gracefully as possible in that case.
Two hours in and here we are (numbers in brackets are the count at 1 hour)
@DianeRobertsApps - 4 (0)
@KateW - 5 (3)
@tuckerseverson - 3 (2)
One has to wonder if they have to run every response past corporate laywers given the amount of time it seems to take them.
And some stats of my own counting:
Respect shown to customers - 0
Horrific discoveries - 2
- Data corruption issue in alarms didn’t stop a release.
- All speakers now available on the public internet protected only by a users password.
Feedback/suggestions actually taken by Sonos - 0
I suspect the ‘every response having to go through legal’ is likely true here. This is like no AMA I’ve ever been on!
(Well we can ask literally anything but they absolutely won’t answer).
My biggest disappointment is the lack of humility here or the willingness to acknowledge the actual disaster this has been.
Some of the responses have been utterly deaf. Read the room guys, seriously!
Hi @DianeRobertsApps can you confirm the reasoning behind the decision to “upgrade” S2 app rather than create a new S3 app with the new design and put S2 into maintenance mode as you did with S1 app?
Hi @KateW the UX of the new app is very laggy and unresponsive, frequently displaying error messages, please explain why it was released like this and what you are doing to resolve it.
Hi @DianeRobertsApps are you able to explain why Sonos decided to make the app cloud-based, what are the advantages apart from extra latency making the app seem slow?
Hi @Absolute40 ,
Regarding the idea of a separate app, the problem with this approach is that the functionality between these apps would diverge over time, leaving a large group of users with an out of date and potentially not fully supported experience.
Regarding responsiveness, I am sorry to hear you are having a bad experience. There are many factors that can contribute to this. We built the app to gather telemetry and data around these error states so we can continue to resolve issues for all users.
There are many advantages to using the cloud, but I’ll highlight one. With our new content services, we are able to provide a richer experience for discovering music to listen to. Our previous app was built on APIs that did not provide enough metadata to make that rich experience.
It’s also important to note that the app is not exclusively cloud-based. We still interact with the speakers on the local network, similar to the old app. We will be continuing to fine tune when we use cloud or local APIs. And we are already working on performance enhancements across the stack.
I don’t think anyone is asking for the old version to be upgraded with new features we just want to be able to use it until the new one is actually ready. And @DianeRoberts your last sentence about fine tuning and performance supports our case. The new app is not complete and not ready for prime time usage it is at best a Beta that customers can experiment with alongside the old one.
Can somebody from Sonos simply say “Sorry”?
Hi @DianeRobertsApps can you confirm the reasoning behind the decision to “upgrade” S2 app rather than create a new S3 app with the new design and put S2 into maintenance mode as you did with S1 app?
Hi @KateW the UX of the new app is very laggy and unresponsive, frequently displaying error messages, please explain why it was released like this and what you are doing to resolve it.
Hi @DianeRobertsApps are you able to explain why Sonos decided to make the app cloud-based, what are the advantages apart from extra latency making the app seem slow?
Hi @Absolute40 ,
Regarding the idea of a separate app, the problem with this approach is that the functionality between these apps would diverge over time, leaving a large group of users with an out of date and potentially not fully supported experience.
Regarding responsiveness, I am sorry to hear you are having a bad experience. There are many factors that can contribute to this. We built the app to gather telemetry and data around these error states so we can continue to resolve issues for all users.
There are many advantages to using the cloud, but I’ll highlight one. With our new content services, we are able to provide a richer experience for discovering music to listen to. Our previous app was built on APIs that did not provide enough metadata to make that rich experience.
It’s also important to note that the app is not exclusively cloud-based. We still interact with the speakers on the local network, similar to the old app. We will be continuing to fine tune when we use cloud or local APIs. And we are already working on performance enhancements across the stack.
@DianeRoberts
Personally I would be perfectly happy to make the judgement call on when to switch, just as I did with the S1 → S2 switch.
What is making me and others so unhappy is you took away the capabilities we relied on to use our own equipment, without asking (in fact having promised not to) and now when we ask why you just “haters gonna hate” at us all. Given your timeline leaves my (very expensive) system in a state that makes me unhappy for nearly three months (and you have not even mentioned when widgets are coming or whether you will make the app work on Chromebooks again), offering a choice (covered in warnings its unsupported and will break) seems preferable to making me equate Sonos with expensive dissatisfaction every day...
Can get clarity on why some services have been dropped, like Stingray.
...please, not a generic answer, a real answer :)
Is this due to a change in your app APIs, standard agreement, fees, other?
@KateW
When the app was getting ready to be released, what were your personal feelings regarding the new app?
Did you anticipate that it would be so poorly received?
@Sam_5 Hi Sam - I've personally been excited to bring the experience to our users, but also understand that anytime you are making a change to an interface that someone uses, you're going to be met with a breadth of reactions, and understandably some negative ones, simply due to the nature of change. We knew that some customers would be understandably upset by the delay in certain features, but are eager to continue to roll out updates to ensure these features are in place, and to address the feedback we are getting from our users. I'm thankful to have an app that is easier for the team to work with and publish updates to with far greater frequency than we've had in the past.
So we suffer to make you happy and excited about your new App?
@DianeRobertsApps can you confirm the new app is built using Flutter rather than native apps to make a one-size-fits-all app?
What was the reasoning behind this? To save development costs?
I’m failing to see the advantage to the user, it’s slower to open and laggy, missing widgets, when installed on a large screen like a tablet it doesn't make good use of the extra screen real estate.
@Absolute40
The app is not exclusively built with Flutter, but does make use of Flutter for certain portions of the setup experience. We’ve actually been using Flutter for those experiences for many years, and ported that forward to the new app.
The majority of the app is in fact native. On iOS that means Swift, using SwiftUI. On Android that means Kotlin, using Jetpack Compose. These are the best in class layout engines offered on their respective platforms, and we’re excited to be able to use these modern technologies.
We are aware that there is work ahead for the tablet experience, and look forward to iterating on that as we go forward.
