Time for an oldie, but goodie (By Monty Montgomery, creator of the Orbis codec, and founder of Xiph, the makers of FLAC, the #1 codec for Hi-Res audio):

24/192 Music Downloads...and why they make no sense

Just noticed this thread and wanted to quickly comment--I I just ran the Node 2i vs Connect test last night for a bit.  I stuck to redbook and used Qobuz and Tidal going into the same DAC.  Short answer is that they sound pretty different from each other, not really hard to distinguish at all.  

Trying to level match was difficult, for some reason the Bluesound seems to output a much louder signal then the Sonos but what was pretty immediate and obvious was that the Bluesound threw a wider soundstage and subjectively seemed to have a little more dynamic range, while the Sonos threw a smaller soundstage and seemed a little warmer--the midrange seemed more natural with the Sonos connect.  Not saying which was better, I think that would be completely subjective but they don’t sound the same (at all).  I currently have three connects (which are all now legacy components) so I’m sure I will swap one for a Port in the near future and compare all three.

For those that care, comparisons were done with Klipsch Forte III speakers, a Manley Stingray and Ayre Codex DAC.

This tinkering is a good way to pass the time if bored in a lockdown, but has no other benefit that has been proved in even ONE level matched double blind listening test.

And if this involves any modification of the unit in question, warranties will be lost for justified reasons.

Snake oil sellers have been around for millenia and adapt themselves to present circumstances very easily because human nature has not changed in the same millenia.

To room acoustics measures, I would also add the influence of speaker placement with respect to walls and corners. Play around with these factors to the extent practical to see which speaker location delivers the best sound.

Invest in better speakers only after everything possible is done on room acoustics and speaker placement, if sound quality is still felt to be lacking.

Ah. as @Stanley_4 alluded above, it’s worth making sure you’re acquainted with the actual science behind HiRes.

While it seems self-evident that higher bit depth and sampling rates will result in higher fidelity music reproduction, this is not the case within the limits of any human’s hearing. CD quality is more than good enough.

Just using RCA outs into an NAD preamp/power amp, and then to (non-Sonos) speakers. 

Theoretically, all three are bit perfect, so there would be no difference using a digital output into a DAC.  You will find those that swear there are massive “night and day” differences (usually favoring the more expensive, boutique brand Bluesound).  Whether you buy their story or not depends on where you stand on the objective vs. subjective audiophile debate.  

Using the internal DAC, well there could be differences, but personally I just want to hear the music.  Listening to the differences between gear gets tedious. Again, the audiophile vs music lover debate all over. 

I agree for the most part. I own a Port for about 2 months. I also own a Pi with Hifiberry Hat. I can't say if one sounds better than the other but can say the Port cost ~$400 more. 

I don't think there is anyone defending the ridiculously high price of a Port, by claiming that it does more on the sound quality front than a USD 25 Chromecast Audio puck as just one example. Or, as another, my raspberry PI wirelessly streams ripped CDs from a USB stick inserted into it to a Echo Dot, that is wire connected to the jacks of a Connect Amp. Even something like this also sounds just as good as my Connect.

On the other hand there is Bluesound that is even more expensive as are other streamers that are multiple times more expensive than the Port that also don't do more than all of the aforesaid on the sound quality front. But the higher price deludes people into thinking they sound better.

The problem is that clever marketing has brainwashed people into thinking: Expensive = High End = HiFi. Which is the most commonly understood definition of the word “HiFi”. And of course, there is no engineering definition of that word, so it is a carte blanche for snake oil peddlers in the HiFi industry.

What sonos gives you is multiroom, if you dont need that then any streamer will be better and cheaper, a raspberry pi will have better signal output from its dac-HAT component for example.
I have my connect coax out going to a decent DAC that is also a preamp, and I think the sound is really nice.
I have also a not so expensive Class AB amp that sounds great, but if I put a CD I think the sound is slightly better but nobody else will notice that anyway at home.

The speakers that you place in diff rooms are not HiFi and I use them as background music son there is not need to spend a hell lot of money there, I rather to have my main system sounding good to me.

If I would switch to another multiroom system I would look at yamaha multicast.  But Ilike simplicity I dont need alexa and those extra things, I just want to listen to music.
 

I can understand saying that it is not sold/marketed as a HiFi product - somewhat. But to say it is not designed as a HiFi product is a meaningless statement because there is no well accepted engineering definition of what is a “HiFi” product, anywhere in the world. 

One reason the Port may sound different to the Connect, and I have both, could be down to the power supply. The Port uses a low voltage supply fed by an average quality wall wart, while the Connect uses direct mains power. My original Sonos Connect with an MCRU No.13 power lead, Russ Andrews filtered mains supply and coaxial digital output to an outboard DAC connected to my stereo sounds better than the Port similarly connected, having noticeably greater dynamics and richness of tone. I would have to invest over £300 on a linear power supply to upgrade the Port bringing the combined outlay into the next highest product range. I have often regarded the Sonos Connect as the weak link in my system probably due to a significant mismatch in price and sound quality with the other components in my system. However, I have kept faith with Sonos because the operating system is the probably the best available. I have researched many competitors for a possible hardware upgrade but their software is mostly questionable. Where does leave me now, should I return the Port, at least I will not be wasting an expensive figure of eight mains lead or do I keep the Port in the hope that a power supply upgrade will be successful?

Im pretty locked into Sonos and don’t regret that generally. However it is difficult to listen to Sonos after listening to my Hi-Fi headphone system as the Hi-Fi sound is in a different league. The problem with the connect and Port is they compare very poorly to other streamers such as bluesound note in terms of capabilities and price. The connect and port make no sense at all unless you are locked to Sonos 

Sonos is an excellent life style product but you have to accept that it is not designed sold or marketed as a Hi-Fi product and it does not have the sound quality or functionality of a hi fi product  I’m sure they are perfectly capable of making a product to compete with the bluesound note and numerous other streamers but that is not where their market is  if you just want a Hi-Fi streamer go else where unfortunately 

I found this thread because I was looking info for the new port, I am laso thinking of upgrade my old connect.
 All is very subjective, your listening room will influence at least 50% of the sound you will hear,
If you want to really hear the diff 24/92 vs CD you need to source to be recorded in high definition also, and still the diff will be minimal or none if the room is not acoustic treated, like for many of us common mortal people.
I think the port beeing a new product will sound better (more modern electronic) that the connect (I have a connect), in the S2 you can stream now 24/92 also so no advantage vs bluesound now.
I think the Bluesound is crazy expensive, if I would change my sonos setup (I have 3 more speakers also) would be for a yamaha multicast system in that case, but for now I ll stick with the sonos setup I have.

 

Just tried playing same song from Apple, Apple Lossless CD ripped file, Amazon lossy from Sonos Connect digital output versus CD through same high end headphone DAC/amp and headphones. Subjective but I couldn’t hear any noticeable difference between Apple lossy and lossless and Amazon lossy files. I thought the CD might have sounded marginally better but nothing I could pick in blind test. The DAC filters made a subtle but notable difference. The quality of amp and headphones made a dramatic difference.

So personally I conclude that the impact of your digital source is negligible. The impact of your DAC is subtle but noticeable if your system is transparent enough. Amps and headphones/speakers do make a dramatic difference though with the amp it was more about matching power rather than sound quality. It took a lot of reading and listening to get there so hopefully helpful for someone. 

The views on Sonos also depend on an element of faith as music is subjective. 
 

i asked Hi-Fi dealer how to spend a tax rebate for my headphones and Sonos connect system  He recommended upgrading the headphone amp but not the connect or DAC and was ambivalent about cables. There is a dramatic difference between headphones and the new amp made a dramatic difference as my other headphone amp simply wasn’t powerful to drive high impedance headphones.

There is no doubt that different DACS also make a notable difference as can clearly hear difference between different filters and blindly changing between filters always end up with same filter which is the same as most people. But between different DACS it does become subtle and personal preference. 
 

i still can’t tell the difference between Sonos connect and CD through same DAC and high end headphones. You do have to switch to fixed output from the Connect digital output as the variable output sounds clearly distorted on headphones. 
 

No doubt there is marketing and real difference. No doubt amps DACS and speakers/headphones make real noticeable sifferences some subtle and some dramatic but only you and your wallet can decide whether those differences matter. Sonos certainly sounds a lot better than my TV sound system and by the same token my Hi-Fi system sounds a lot better for music but for sure the differences wouldn’t be worth it for other people. Your financial circumstances also impact your perceptions. 

Audiophilia depends on faith.

This I have to agree with. Because this is exactly what I am seeing when I talk to “audiophiles” online. There is too much fake news online, especially in this field. Some of them simply will not agree even if you prove something scientifically beyond doubt. In such cases, I have just stopped commenting online - no point, trying to make such people understand, 

Certainly there is nothing wrong with experimentation, it is the foundation of scientific progress. But for progress to be real and not subjectively imagined, experimental conclusions need to be tested with the rigour that science applies. When that rigour is missing as it is almost always is with audiophiles, the subjective conclusions claimed are mere opinions that are of little common value.

You are right about the tinkering bit Kumar, we are bored, and we do tinker when we are bored…  

Nothing wrong in doing some experimentation. Sometimes you learn interesting things. I can say I have. 

Pointing out the cost of the Port wasn't the point, this is Sonos community, we've all accepted the price point to play. The point was that the pi is so cheap in comparison.

The other problem with high-res in general - is I am assuming a lot of us use streaming for it. Tidal is very popular - you do all this, pay for the Tidal masters, use an MQA DAC - in the end, you get pops, hisses and pure distorted noise out of your $$$ speakers because guess what - Your gigabit internet connection can’t deal with streaming compressed, lossy MQA audio - forget Qobuz FLAC, the Tidal app had a bug… whatever... 
 

The Sonos connect never ever does that, only “24 bit, 48 KHz”, never does that. The Sonos app never does that - not even once. 
 

What is the point of all this? Just get Sonos. Atleast it works 99.9999% of the time. 
 

Nobody can really afford to buy all CDs or all high-res all the time. You won’t even find high res for pop most of the time anyway. 
 

Reality Check = Use Sonos

I would just use it with an external DAC which gives you the best of both worlds. Or just keep the connect upgraded to S2 if it is a newer connect. This was a hard problem for me as well, but I stayed with Sonos because of the quality of the software, app and ecosystem. 

For critical listening, I have my iPhone connected via USB to a DAC. For everything else I have found Sonos connect + DAC to be better than any other alternative including direct from Mac. The only con is the resolution limit, otherwise you are good. 

Music is very subjective. If you find the connect to be better, you should trust your ears. Let us know if you find that the power supply makes the port sound better than the connect. Also let us know which power supply you end up using if that works. You should attempt it. 
 

For those who want to dig very deep into this and related subjects:

https://link.medium.com/vu0bgGat47

https://link.medium.com/e8KSRk0s47

https://link.medium.com/t7EVAfct47

It is all related because people tend to listen to Tidal, MQA and other stuff over Sonos and this is not an easy problem to untangle.

There are several topics here on the high resolution sound issue, well worth looking at before you spend money on it.

Of bigger interest or relevance to this thread is the ability of each of the three options to wirelessly play Hi Res content without any stuttering, whether singly or in grouped mode. Now that Sonos does Hi Res.

Any possible preference for sound quality will be destroyed if such music stutters all the time.