Question

Does Port adjust the sync lag for AV receivers?

  • 8 September 2019
  • 22 replies
  • 1801 views

Just received the email about the new product offering, including the new port.

Currently, I have a Connect attached to my Yamaha home theater with Play:1 speakers in adjacent rooms/areas. I cannot get through the 70ms lag produced by the AV receiver’s signal processor when streaming with any other device. Using analog input has reduced the lag, but it’s still annoying.

Dies Port address the timing differences for 3rd party devices? If so, HOW?

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22 replies

I wouldn't think so.

My understanding is the majority of the "lag" you're speaking about is the Sonos software buffering the signal so that it can reliably be played in sync across all connected rooms across a 2.4Ghz network. So there's a minimum delay inherent in the software for any analog input, as well as any "rooms" grouped with a Digital input room, such as the various sound bars.

Effectively, while this is new hardware, I don't think the software process is substantially different.
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I think the OP is referring to the processing delay added purely by the AV receiver. Addressing this would require the ability to (adjustably) retard playback at the other grouped Sonos players to compensate for the receiver's delay.

I'd be surprised if Sonos has introduced any mechanism to address this, which doesn't mean they won't do so in future, of course.
I can understand why the first two respondents have interpreted the question differently. 70ms is often quoted as the Sonos buffering delay, so either the figure is coincidentally the same or the OP is confusing two different things.

I think that with an AV receiver and Connect involved it is most likely that @pwt's interpretation is correct, and the OP is suffering sync issues because of DSP in the receiver.

This would be hard for Sonos to correct as the AVR is downstream of the Connect. I would rate the chance of Sonos doing anything about this in the Connect or Port as less than zero.

To the OP. See if your AVR has something like a 'direct mode' which turns off the AVR's DSP, when using the Connect.
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In my case (an older Yamaha AV amplifier), the 2CH and 7CH stereo modes, fed with a digital optical signal from a Connect, suffer from no perceptible processing delay. The same is true for the 'Pure Direct' mode, but this also disables the subwoofer output.
It’s the latter. The receiver has a delay associated with the DSP. The home theater is an area of a large open space where there are other sonos devices. The digital input was worse. Even with using the analog input and setting the DSP to direct, there is still a slight delay. In a single space, it sounds like Steve Martin in The Jerk (the beat is just a half behind)
How large is your large open space? It would take sound about 40ms to travel 15m. Enough to be perceived as an audible lag.
The space is 40’ x 25. The lag is not due to the size of the room as the adjacent speakers are close enough to the home theater area to hear both at the same time. It is definitely a lag as the receiver is a half beat behind the rest of the house
I can understand why the first two respondents have interpreted the question differently. 70ms is often quoted as the Sonos buffering delay, so either the figure is coincidentally the same or the OP is confusing two different things.

I think that with an AV receiver and Connect involved it is most likely that @pwt's interpretation is correct, and the OP is suffering sync issues because of DSP in the receiver.

This would be hard for Sonos to correct as the AVR is downstream of the Connect. I would rate the chance of Sonos doing anything about this in the Connect or Port as less than zero.

To the OP. See if your AVR has something like a 'direct mode' which turns off the AVR's DSP, when using the Connect.

I think Sonos could do something about it by adding an adjustable delay slider for the Port/Connect and then delay all non Port/Connects that are memberts of the same group. I'm already hoping for years that they would implement something like this but after waiting for so many years I've slowly given up... Would be dope though if something in the new Port could make this features finally possible. This would make me buy a Port in a blink of an eye and I think many others fighting the same problem too ^^.
The only other way to solve is to trash the sonos except for the one connect and replace the others with the Yamaha wireless set up.
The only other way to solve is to trash the sonos except for the one connect and replace the others with the Yamaha wireless set up.


And just how will that let the poster play his Connect in sync with his other units?

And Yamaha? At last count, they are on their 3rd (or is it 4th?) line of wireless multi-room speakers, and not one of them has been anything but an utter failure. I wouldn't put my trust in the current line being anything else.
Quite simply @jgatie, If you stream first to the AV receiver with a single Sonos Connect, Yamaha will distribute the music to the other Yamaha devices in perfect sync as the Receiver itself is managing the music stream.

while not what I wanted to do (as I have multiple Sonos devices), it is still the only option that accomplishes my goal without hard wiring the whole house. It would be great if Sonos provided a way within the settings to adjust the delay to individual devices.
Sonos could implement a solution similar to what Apple just released on the Apple TV for wireless audio sync: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210526.

Sonos could use their app to measure the delay between a source single and the audio through the AV receiver and the other Sonos speakers. With this information Sonos can reduce the delay/lag between the 2 sound systems (AV receiver and wireless speakers).
The app is just a remote control. I suspect the task of doing this is bigger than you think. But more significantly, Sonos have products that are designed to be used for AV. The Port isn't one of them. I cannot imagine any reason why Sonos would divert scarce resources to do anything about this.

As I said before, not a snowball's chance of this happening.

Similar interest.

I have a connect with the same issue.

If the Port was better - this would solve it.

Similar interest.

I have a connect with the same issue.

If the Port was better - this would solve it.

This is not a problem Sonos needs to solve. The Port syncs perfectly with other Sonos units, as does the Connect. 

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Similar interest.

I have a connect with the same issue.

If the Port was better - this would solve it.

This is not a problem Sonos needs to solve. The Port syncs perfectly with other Sonos units, as does the Connect. 

 

I agree. They don’t need to solve it. But it would be pretty fantastic if they did. Yamaha definitely won’t. 

It’s definitely a problem.  I have a Connect hooked to my stereo receiver.  My stereo has a turntable and CD player and many speakers.  I have 3 Sonos play 1 speakers, a playbar, a play 5 and a subwoofer.  I owned the Sonos and my husband had the stereo.  When we got married, we combined systems and it was a huge pain in the neck.  I figured out the Connect and had it so that there was a barely noticeable delay from the stereo speakers compared to the Sonos speakers.  I recently replaced my Bridge with a Boost (at Sonos’ recommendation) and now I have about a 2 second delay (the Sonos is slower).  It’s not tolerable.  I spent an hour on the phone with tech and they can’t fix it.  I’ve read all the posts I could find in here and can’t fix it. I was seriously hoping that the port would resolve the issue so that I could listen to albums and CDs through the Sonos speakers.

 

Similar interest.

I have a connect with the same issue.

If the Port was better - this would solve it.

This is not a problem Sonos needs to solve. The Port syncs perfectly with other Sonos units, as does the Connect. 


I think it’s a problem they need to solve.  It pisses me off.  They advertise that with a Connect you can stream albums through the Sonos speakers.  Sure -- if you turn the stereo speakers off it works, but the delay is maddening.

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It’s infuriating. Because they don’t merely hide an issue that’s well established, their marketing actively leads consumers to believe it syncs perfectly with your other Sonos components (while “technically” being able to deny they do this).

I bought 3 Connects (one an Amp), and they drive me bonkers, regardless of AVR or Pure Direct settings or room. I simply can’t use my existing dozen Sonos speakers at the same time as my Connect speakers...meaning I have two sets of speakers in some rooms...Sonos and non-Sonos in the same room, doubled up, so that when I want to, I actually *can* stream the same music throughout the entire house with no sync issues. (That’s such a ridiculous thing to have to resort to, i.e., have two speakers in every location, non-Sonos for movies or higher fidelity, Sonos for when someone wants convenient while house streaming.) 

I’ve convinced folks to buy over 100 Sonos speakers over the years. I was an evangel. I don’t recommend Sonos to anyone anymore. Because of this very issue.

Either add the ability to manually delay output from normal Sonos speakers, perhaps via a slider, or heck - DON’T fix the issue...after years of an army of complaints, I simply don’t care if you fix it anymore! - but DO clearly note on Port and Amp boxes and on product info pages that it does NOT usually play well with Sonos speakers (Yamaha direct AVR as a frequently mentioned exception)...it’s one or the other...all Sonos speakers or all Port/Amp speakers. 

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Btw, this would be an utterly “first world problem”, except that I actually don’t care if they fix it. It’s the breach of trust, the feeling of being misled, that’s the big issue imho. Misleading those who trust you is a problem as old as our species.

 

The actual fix is a small issue that’s needed (because the sync issue is real), but probably very low on a list of priorities that includes solving more important or pressing issues. 

100% agree, Jack. 

Sonos can and does sync its products. DSP in a receiver downstream of its control is not a Sonos problem. Sonos will probably never do anything about this and never should even attempt to.

My Connect / hifi syncs perfectly with my Sonos speakers.