Will Sonos introduce a Connect product with Airplay introduced or will there be a software update?


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New Connect product with Airplay introduced or will there be a software update?

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I want to buy a sonos Connect but it does not support Airplay - is sonos fixing / addressing this?
It is a hardware issue. There is no software update that can achieve this. Nobody can say what Sonos will do but I personally would think an Airplay 2 compatible Connect would be a long way down the development list, if on it at all.
John B wrote:

It is a hardware issue. There is no software update that can achieve this. Nobody can say what Sonos will do but I personally would think an Airplay 2 compatible Connect would be a long way down the development list, if on it at all.



John that is very interesting indeed. Can you share a it more on why you thing that a Connect refresh might not be in the development path at all? I guess there is a possibility that sonos is moving away from that area?

rhjk, I can also confirm that the sonos connect cannot (unfortunately) become airplay compatible. As John B also mentioned, airplay compatibility requires additional internal hardware that the old sonos connect does not have. There is no way for it to be come airplay 2 compatible. You can always group it with a newer sonos unit that is airplay 2 compatible and then it will work (kind of).

Cheers
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Yiannis74 wrote:


John that is very interesting indeed. Can you share a it more on why you thing that a Connect refresh might not be in the development path at all? I guess there is a possibility that sonos is moving away from that area?



It's a logical assumption. There is a relatively small volume of Sonos users that are interested in airplay. It's safe to assume 50% are android users, and of the iOS users, not all would be interested in airplay 2. For those that are, there are other options available.

- As you suggested, buy a Sonos One and group it with the Connect. This would be cheaper than buying a brand new Connect, assuming the Connect 2.0 is the same price.
- Since the Connect is presumably paired with an amp or receiver, the consumer has the option of getting a receiver that is airplay enabled.
- Depending on how the Connect + Amp/Receiver is used, the consumer has the option of upgrading to a Sonos Amp.

So it's not hard to conclude that Sonos isn't going to come out with a Connect 2.0 where the only change is airplay 2.

That said, I would not be surprised if a new Connect came out in the next year or so. It would need a significant upgrade in features though.

- airplay 2
- new black and white color schemes to match current products
- new 'hard buttons' to match current products
- new form factor that is better for rack mounting, similar to the Sonos Amp
- perhaps..an HDMI-ARC connection? Not sure if this makes sense considering it's only got a RCA stereo output. Maybe it does if it can pass HDMI out as well.
- Probably would need some additional feature to really tempt current Connect owners to upgrade.
I agree entirely with Danny's excellent analysis. I think the new product, if it were to be produced, would have to be virtually unrecognizable as a Connect.
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melvimbe wrote:

That said, I would not be surprised if a new Connect came out in the next year or so. It would need a significant upgrade in features though.

- airplay 2
- new black and white color schemes to match current products
- new 'hard buttons' to match current products
- new form factor that is better for rack mounting, similar to the Sonos Amp
- perhaps..an HDMI-ARC connection? Not sure if this makes sense considering it's only got a RCA stereo output. Maybe it does if it can pass HDMI out as well.
- Probably would need some additional feature to really tempt current Connect owners to upgrade.


I think the product that would solve most of the issues people have with Sonos in terms of I/O would be some kind of "Sonos reciever". Put simply, two HDMI ports, RCA Stereo input and a pair of Ethernet jacks. That's it. This is the product I'd want to see them release

RCA IN:
Basic stereo line-in. Behaves exactly as it does for every Sonos device's line-in

HDMI IN
Behaves basically the same as the RCA line-in but as a digital audio input. Supports all of the digital audio standards you'd expect including Dolby Atmos and 7.1 audio sources (i'll get to that in a bit). It also passes through the video signal to the HDMI out. For this to make any sense it'd also have to be HDMI 2.0 or HDMI 2.1 as HDMI is not just for Audio. You'd also have the ability to push the audio back to the device connected via HDMI ARC (I'll get to this later)

HDMI OUT
Basically behaves like the HDMI port on the Beam and new AMP. The only difference being that it passes through the video signal from HDMI IN.

Two ways this would be used. If you have an existing receiver it sits between your receiver and your TV and essentially turns your existing sound system into a Sonos compatible one. Your receiver itself and TV function exactly as they did before it just now shows up on the Sonos app as if it was a Beam/Playbar/Playbase/AMP.

The second way you'd set it up is with a combination of Sonos speakers. At it's most basic a couple of Play 1s for a stereo pair. But you could also push it upto 7.1 with a Sub, Beam and 4x Play 1s. Or maybe even further with more speakers made more palatable by adding a cheaper version of the Play 1 specifically for a Dolby Atmos like setup.

/my 2c
Fortunately I did not already buy/have a Sonos Connect, but I do have powered speakers in my office and would be more than willing to buy a new connect with airplay capability and obviously sonos wifi for grouping if I need it.

I have powered audio engines in my office and therefore cannot use the new sonos amp.

I didnt want to have to buy a SONOS CONNECT and an additional SONOS ONE.. that seems like a work around and not a simple solution. I only wanted to buy a new connect with airplay functionality unless someone has another suggestion - since it may be a while.

Bottom line anyone who has powered speakers cannot use the new sonos amp. That is why I am asking the original question about a new sonos connect.
Also thanks for all the perspective and input.
Also Apple itunes is not bluetooth compatible if you are playing music from your PC., so Sonos Connect with powered speakers would be a great solution.
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Skywake wrote:


I think the product that would solve most of the issues people have with Sonos in terms of I/O would be some kind of "Sonos reciever". Put simply, two HDMI ports, RCA Stereo input and a pair of Ethernet jacks. That's it. This is the product I'd want to see them release



I would include RCA stereo outputs, like the current Connect already has. But I'm with you so far.

Skywake wrote:


RCA IN:
Basic stereo line-in. Behaves exactly as it does for every Sonos device's line-in



Yep.

Skywake wrote:


HDMI IN
Behaves basically the same as the RCA line-in but as a digital audio input. Supports all of the digital audio standards you'd expect including Dolby Atmos and 7.1 audio sources (i'll get to that in a bit). It also passes through the video signal to the HDMI out. For this to make any sense it'd also have to be HDMI 2.0 or HDMI 2.1 as HDMI is not just for Audio. You'd also have the ability to push the audio back to the device connected via HDMI ARC (I'll get to this later)



I'm not really agreeing with this. The point of a Connect is to pass an audio signal to an 3rd party amp. So I see the benefit of taking in HDMI and passing it on to the amp. That allows control of input by the Sonos app. I don't see why a Connect would need to do anything other then extract a stereo signal for use in grouping the audio with other Sonos zones. I do agree that it would be nice if the device could take an 'ARC' audio signal from a TV as well as a full HDMI signal from a video source.

Skywake wrote:


HDMI OUT
Basically behaves like the HDMI port on the Beam and new AMP. The only difference being that it passes through the video signal from HDMI IN.



Then it's really not like a Beam or Amp since they take an HDMI-ARC which doesn't have a video signal with it. I believe I udnerstand what you mean, as I described above, but it's not really the same at all.

Skywake wrote:


Two ways this would be used. If you have an existing receiver it sits between your receiver and your TV and essentially turns your existing sound system into a Sonos compatible one. Your receiver itself and TV function exactly as they did before it just now shows up on the Sonos app as if it was a Beam/Playbar/Playbase/AMP.



Sure. It's what the Connect does today, except we're adding passthrough HDMI and/or HDMI-ARC to the receiver.

Skywake wrote:


The second way you'd set it up is with a combination of Sonos speakers. At it's most basic a couple of Play 1s for a stereo pair. But you could also push it upto 7.1 with a Sub, Beam and 4x Play 1s. Or maybe even further with more speakers made more palatable by adding a cheaper version of the Play 1 specifically for a Dolby Atmos like setup.



A stereo pair can is just a second room/zone. Not really an issue. When you're talking about sending HT channels wireless, I want that functionality, but I'd rather it come in a separate product. You're going to either send audio to another amp, or send it to other Sonos speakers, not both. Putting both in the same product will unnecessarily raise the price. And I would not include the Beam, Playbar, or playbase in this as they already due 5.1 on thier own. I don't many people are going to do 7.1 with a soundbar included for the front 3, and it's going to rather complicate the development. The other speakers and Sonos amp are a better fit for this use.

This 'second way' is sometimes thought of as the 'super connect' on these boards. Would love to see it happen one day, but not sure there's enough market for it.
Skywake wrote:


/my 2c



Good thoughts.
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melvimbe wrote:

I would include RCA stereo outputs, like the current Connect already has. But I'm with you so far.


Fair call. The entire point of the Connect is to allow you to connect existing gear into the Sonos ecosystem. It should also include the ability to plug in a pair of amplified stereo speakers.

melvimbe wrote:

Then it's really not like a Beam or Amp since they take an HDMI-ARC which doesn't have a video signal with it. I believe I udnerstand what you mean, as I described above, but it's not really the same at all.


Both the Beam and AMP output a video signal over HDMI it's just that it's a test pattern. All it'd need to do is pass through the video signal which is something literally every Amplifier on the market already does.

The only complication with having a HDMI In and HDMI Out would be which audio source to you "play". And for that with only one HDMI In it's in theory as simple as this. If there is a signal coming from the HDMI In? Play that. If not play the HDMI ARC signal from HDMI Out.

melvimbe wrote:

I'm not really agreeing with this. The point of a Connect is to pass an audio signal to an 3rd party amp. I don't see why a Connect would need to do anything other then extract a stereo signal for use in grouping the audio with other Sonos zones [...] When you're talking about sending HT channels wireless, I want that functionality, but I'd rather it come in a separate product. [...] This 'second way' is sometimes thought of as the 'super connect' on these boards. Would love to see it happen one day, but not sure there's enough market for it.


Firstly as someone who has a Beam one of the main complaints I have with Sonos' place under my TV is it's lack of support of DTS. It also kinda sucks that if you have a Nintendo Switch you can't get surround because there's no way to pass 5.1 PCM over HDMI ARC. You'll also see complaints from others about it not getting on board with Dolby Atmos. So a device that "connects" should handle these things.

Put simply what I'm talking about is a device that sits between your TV and a HDMI source. If that HDMI source is third party Amplifier or soundbar then what you're buying is a way to group your existing Amp/soundbar with other Sonos Zones. But if you're doing this there's no reason why it can't also function without an existing Amp/soundbar. And why not allow combinations? You can already have a setup with a Beam in the front and two speakers connected via the old model AMP. Why not allow a surround setup with a "new" Connect and 4 play 1s?
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Skywake wrote:


melvimbe wrote:

Then it's really not like a Beam or Amp since they take an HDMI-ARC which doesn't have a video signal with it. I believe I udnerstand what you mean, as I described above, but it's not really the same at all.


Both the Beam and AMP output a video signal over HDMI it's just that it's a test pattern. All it'd need to do is pass through the video signal which is something literally every Amplifier on the market already does.

The only complication with having a HDMI In and HDMI Out would be which audio source to you "play". And for that with only one HDMI In it's in theory as simple as this. If there is a signal coming from the HDMI In? Play that. If not play the HDMI ARC signal from HDMI Out.



I don't think it would be that simple. Remember, the Connect really doesn't 'play' anything. It takes an audio signal, either from a stream or from a line in source, and pass it on to a 3rd party amp. If you want the Connect to be able to pass HT codecs to an amp, it's not getting that from that from a stream internally, so it must get it from an external source through HDMI or HDMI-ARC, both requiring an HDMI 'in' port. Likewise, it has to be able to transfer that signal to an amp, thus an HDMI 'out' port. Two ports actively used is required in all cases. Nothing like like the beam or amp really.


Skywake wrote:


Firstly as someone who has a Beam one of the main complaints I have with Sonos' place under my TV is it's lack of support of DTS. It also kinda sucks that if you have a Nintendo Switch you can't get surround because there's no way to pass 5.1 PCM over HDMI ARC. You'll also see complaints from others about it not getting on board with Dolby Atmos. So a device that "connects" should handle these things.



I'm not going to get into this as there are many threads discussing the HT codecs Sonos supports.

Skywake wrote:


Put simply what I'm talking about is a device that sits between your TV and a HDMI source. If that HDMI source is third party Amplifier or soundbar then what you're buying is a way to group your existing Amp/soundbar with other Sonos Zones.



An amp is not an HDMI source. Pretty much by definition, it doesn't generate audio or video content. It's main job is to take an amplified audio signal and pass it to speakers, and often does additional functions, but never generating video content, an HDMI source. That said I can see where a Connect 2.0 could sit between a TV and HDMI source, passing HDMI-ARC signal between the TV and Amp, or whatever other source you want to use. I don't see this audio signal being straight HDMI as TVs rarely have HDMI out.

Your last sentence, forgetting about calling an amp an amp source, is something the current Connect already does. it has RCA inputs so you can pass output from your amp to the Connect, and then grouped with other Sonos zones. It is only stereo because the multiroom audio between zones is only stereo, and buffered so that it would not play in sync with the audio coming from your amp anyway.


Skywake wrote:


But if you're doing this there's no reason why it can't also function without an existing Amp/soundbar. And why not allow combinations?



I don't know if you're talking about Sonos Amp/soundbar or other brand amp/soundbar here. If Sonos brand, there 's no reason to add a Connect device into these zones. The Sonos amp/soundbar handles the HT codecs that Sonos supports on their own, and can pass stereo audio to other zones. If you're talking about other brands of amp/soundbar, isn't this what the Connect does already? If you're talking about mixing and matching Sonos and other brand amps and soundbars for a single HT setup, well that's just an utter mess.

Skywake wrote:


You can already have a setup with a Beam in the front and two speakers connected via the old model AMP. Why not allow a surround setup with a "new" Connect and 4 play 1s?



I don't have a problem with this, but it's a different product altogether, often hypothetically thought of as the 'super connect' as I stated earlier. I would not want to have a product that can send audio to a 3rd party amp AND send audio wirelessly to other Sonos speakers. You would only be able to do one or the other feature and putting them both in the same product will just raise the cost unnecessarily, and probably cause a lot of confusion as to what the thing can actually do and how to set it up. Two separate products makes a lot more sense.
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An updated CONNECT would be a pretty easy product for Sonos to introduce: they have all the necessary components now. In addition to the features of the current CONNECT, I'd just enable Airplay 2 (possible because of updated hardware) and ideally add a digital Line-In, in a new design. Personally, I'd omit any home theatre features: they are an over-complication, add expense, and there are better options available.
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pwt wrote:

Personally, I'd omit any home theatre features: they are an over-complication, add expense, and there are better options available.



My inclusion of the feature would be just to pass the HDMI-ARC signal on through to your amp. It's not needed, as the amp could easily take the HDMI-ARC signal and a signal from the Connect separately, but that means you'll have to switch inputs on the reciever/amp whenever you want to switch between TV and Sonos streaming audio. With a passthrough that the Sonos app can be used control the source, and do autoplay the same same way the other Sonos HT devices do. You could think of it as a built in switch perhaps. It's not really a new concept. Xbox consoles will pass through your cable/satellite signal to your TV. The Echo link also does a passthrough of audio from an external source to an amp, although it's only a stereo signal, not an HT codec.

Again, it's not a necessity, but I was thinking of features that could possible get existing Connect owners to upgrade. I don't think airplay and digital line in is going to do it.
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melvimbe wrote:

Again, it's not a necessity, but I was thinking of features that could possible get existing Connect owners to upgrade. I don't think airplay and digital line in is going to do it.


Agreed — I wouldn’t upgrade mine, especially as AirPlay works perfectly with them (via AirConnect). However, they look pretty unappealing for new customers, or people adding to their Sonos systems.
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[quote=melvimbe]
pwt wrote:


Again, it's not a necessity, but I was thinking of features that could possible get existing Connect owners to upgrade. I don't think airplay and digital line in is going to do it.



I'm getting ready to set up a new stereo only solution in my bedroom. I've got a Connect on eBay for it, but I'd upgrade for Airplay and digital line in. HDMI passthrough would also be nice.

Frankly, I wish the new Amp simply had RCA outs like the old ZP100. That was my first ever Sonos product, and for years I used only the line outs until I got a house with outdoor speakers. I only then got a Connect (NOS ZP80) for the home stereo.
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melvimbe wrote:

I don't think it would be that simple. Remember, the Connect really doesn't 'play' anything. It takes an audio signal, either from a stream or from a line in source, and pass it on to a 3rd party amp. If you want the Connect to be able to pass HT codecs to an amp, it's not getting that from that from a stream internally, so it must get it from an external source through HDMI or HDMI-ARC, both requiring an HDMI 'in' port.


I don't think you at all understood what I meant or what HDMI ARC is TBH so let me simplify this.

HDMI can generally be thought of as having four distinct channels. You have the main video signal like the one that goes from any HDMI source (including Beam & AMP, these are "source" devices) to the TV. Then there's the main audio channel which also goes from the source and supports upto 8 uncompressed audio channels upto HDMI 1.4 and 32 on HDMI 2.0/2.1. Sonos does not use this. Thirdly there's CEC which is bi-directional and pushes remote commands which Sonos does use. Lastly you have ARC, the headline act for Sonos, it sends the audio backwards or "returns" it to the source device. Upto and including HDMI 2.0 it's is like a slightly boosted S/PDIF with either uncompressed stereo or compressed 5.1, with HDMI 2.1 it now supports 8 uncompressed audio channels.

So with the tech realities out of the way here's my thinking. The new AMP has HDMI ARC so the new Connect should also, I think that's a given. What's the point of putting a Sonos under your TV next to your fancy surround system if it doesn't also let you put the audio from the footy on in the kitchen? It's the main reason why you'd buy a new one over the existing Connect IMO. Now here's the problem. If it's connected to your TV via HDMI ARC how do you connect it to your receiver? The way I see it HDMI ARC is the only solution. I don't know of any TV that has two HDMI ARC ports and you want to still be able to connect video sources to your Amplifier and pass these on to your TV.

From there literally everything else I've said is just software/firmware/licencing. If the Sonos has a HDMI IN connected to your AMP and a HDMI OUT connected to your TV? Then there's no reason why you can't also put it between your TV and a 4K BluRay player or a TV and a Switch. There's no reason why it couldn't send its audio signal to a set of Play 1s in a surround config instead of the Play 1 in your kitchen. I even see no reason why it couldn't take a surround signal from a TV via HDMI OUT ARC, pass the front three channels to a third party soundbar via HDMI IN ARC and push the rear two to a couple of Play 1s. Literally just clever firmware at that point.
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Skywake wrote:

I don't think you at all understood what I meant or what HDMI ARC is TBH so let me simplify this.



I'd respect that statement a lot more if you bothered to state what I had said about HDMI-ARC that was incorrect.

Skywake wrote:


HDMI can generally be thought of as having four distinct channels. You have the main video signal like the one that goes from any HDMI source (including Beam & AMP, these are "source" devices) to the TV. Then there's the main audio channel which also goes from the source and supports upto 8 uncompressed audio channels upto HDMI 1.4 and 32 on HDMI 2.0/2.1. Sonos does not use this. Thirdly there's CEC which is bi-directional and pushes remote commands which Sonos does use. Lastly you have ARC, the headline act for Sonos, it sends the audio backwards or "returns" it to the source device. Upto and including HDMI 2.0 it's is like a slightly boosted S/PDIF with either uncompressed stereo or compressed 5.1, with HDMI 2.1 it now supports 8 uncompressed audio channels.



Yep. Agree with this.

Skywake wrote:


So with the tech realities out of the way here's my thinking. The new AMP has HDMI ARC so the new Connect should also, I think that's a given.



It's not a given, but yes, we're exploring the possibility of what HDMI-ARC (or just HDMI) inclusion would look like.

Skywake wrote:


What's the point of putting a Sonos under your TV next to your fancy surround system if it doesn't also let you put the audio from the footy on in the kitchen? It's the main reason why you'd buy a new one over the existing Connect IMO.



But this has been a feature of Sonos from day 1. Any Sonos device with a line can take in an external source (your TV) and share it with Sonos speakers in another room. It cannot be a reason to upgrade your Connect. I'm going assume you already know that and aren't thinking about that for whatever reason.

Skywake wrote:


Now here's the problem. If it's connected to your TV via HDMI ARC how do you connect it to your receiver? The way I see it HDMI ARC is the only solution. I don't know of any TV that has two HDMI ARC ports and you want to still be able to connect video sources to your Amplifier and pass these on to your TV.



If you're passing video source to your amplifier (HDMI) and then to your TV (HDMI) then the current Connect is fine to get that audio to your Kitchen. Your amp needs to have RCA outputs to the Connect's inputs, then grouping the audio with the Kitchen speakers.

If you're wanting to use HDMI-ARC in a setup, not HDMI, then your video sources will connect directly to the TV (HDMI) and your Sonos Connect 2.0 would get audio through HDMI-ARC, exactly what the Beam and Amp currently do. But since the Sonos Connect 2.0 can't power speakers like the Beam and Amp, it has to pass the audio on to something else. One way would be to pass the audio on to a 3rd party amp (HDMI-ARC again) and I think this should be it's own product right there. If you don't want to pass to an amp, but wireless (5.0 Ghz) send audio to other Sonos speakers, then you aren't going to be using an amp, then I'd say that's a second product, as combining the two 'methods' is going to raise the cost.


Skywake wrote:


From there literally everything else I've said is just software/firmware/licencing. If the Sonos has a HDMI IN connected to your AMP and a HDMI OUT connected to your TV?



AMP? Did you mean to say Connect here?

Skywake wrote:


Then there's no reason why you can't also put it between your TV and a 4K BluRay player or a TV and a Switch.



If 'it' is a Connect, and it has HDMI pass through, then yes you could.

Skywake wrote:


There's no reason why it couldn't send its audio signal to a set of Play 1s in a surround config instead of the Play 1 in your kitchen.



Again, if 'it' is a Connect, sending audio to surround speakers is done with 5.0 Ghz wifi, while sending audio to a play:1 in the kitchen, another room, would be done with 2.4 Ghz wifi. Sonos use 5.0 for HT configurations so that it can keep all the speakers in sync with the video on the TV. It uses 2.4 Ghz for room to room communications because it has much better penetration through walls.

Skywake wrote:


I even see no reason why it couldn't take a surround signal from a TV via HDMI OUT ARC, pass the front three channels to a third party soundbar via HDMI IN ARC and push the rear two to a couple of Play 1s. Literally just clever firmware at that point.



Yes, this is possible. But why would Sonos want to help sell other companies soundbars? Why does Sonos want to develop and support features like this? They know people are going to want to use other AV products, which is why the Connect already exists.

I get the appeal of a device that can take in audio with it be through HDMI or the HDMI-ARC return channel. From their, have it be able to pass all the channels to a 3rd party amp and soundbar, or just certain channels, and also wireless send channels to Sonos speakers, including soundbars...to create whatever HT setup people could dream up. I just don't see this as a product Sonos is ever going to want to develop and support, Sounds like you disagree. That's fine, we're talking about a product that doesn't exist anyway.
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melvimbe wrote:

If you're passing video source to your amplifier (HDMI) and then to your TV (HDMI) then the current Connect is fine to get that audio to your Kitchen. Your amp needs to have RCA outputs to the Connect's inputs, then grouping the audio with the Kitchen speakers.


This is where you don't understand what I mean. Consider this scenario which I think will be the case for just about anyone who has a surround system and wants to plug Sonos into it.

You have a fancy surround setup, 7.1 or whatever. HDMI ARC does not support 7.1 so you plug your BluRay player directly into your 7.1 Amplifier. This video signal also needs needs to go from your Amplfier to your TV. Additionally you want the audio signal from your TV to go to your Amplifier so you use HDMI ARC. Standard setup so far, HDMI devices plugged into your Amplifier, HDMI ARC from TV going back to the Amplifier.

Now how do you insert a new Sonos Connect into this setup? If you want to be able to take the audio from your TV and group it to other rooms you need to plug it into the HDMI ARC port on your TV. But this is also the port your Amplifier has to be plugged into. They could dump the idea of sharing the audio from your TV entirely at which point why not just get the current Connect. The other option would be to insert the new Connect between your HDMI Source and TV. This then opens up a whole range of other scenarios where such a device would be useful.

Like this, I didn't think this would be difficult for anyone to understand TBH:



(also I just noticed I called these both "scenario 1". Meh. You get the idea anyways, hopefully, probably not.)

melvimbe wrote:

AMP? Did you mean to say Connect here?


No, I meant Amplifier/Reciever/Soundbar. The thing you're connecting your Connect to.
Generally speaking, in this forum, the "Amp" is what we call the Sonos Amp, which is the replacement for the CONNECT:AMP.

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