In the knowledge that I was moving with my family to a new larger property, I have been preparing/researching/saving for several items of audio and AV equipment. One absolute must was a multi-room wireless system. We still have traditional stereo in our office/guest room, and the main system in our 'Snug' has a great stereo and 5.1 system. But, the heart of the house, the kitchen diner, needs music to be readily available, and this means intuitive above sound quality so that my wife actually plays music.
Cutting to the chase, I borrowed, one at a time, to demo in situ, a Bluesound Pulse Mini, a Play:3, a Bluesound Pulse and finally (playing as I type) a Play:5. I'd done a lot of reading, and spoken to staff at the shops, and was in no doubt that I would prefer the 'audiophile' sound of the Bluesound, and that the ability to play my high-res files (I have a Pono and a Pioneer N-50 network player) would be the clincher. The only possible thing that might gain some points for the SONOS products was functionality.
How wrong I was! I instantly disliked the sound of the Pulse Mini, it deals well with instrumental music, but is unbearable with vocals. The midrange sounds smothered and discoloured. I tried to like it, occasionally finding tracks that it handled well, but within a fairly short space of time I found it... offensive. I took it back and headed home with the smaller Play:3. I loved it, very neutral, but very competent. It didn't put a foot wrong, dealing with my music files on shuffle without missing a beat. I've never spent so long in a kitchen! I took it back with the intention of taking a Play:5 to try, believing it to be an over zealous, overweight teenager, and probably settling for the Play:3, but instead I took the bigger Pulse home. It faired better than the Mini... marginally, the low and high frequencies are more to the fore, and cover up the tonal oddities of the Bluesound midrange, but not enough. Back to the shop and home with a Play:5... hooked, instantly! Grin inducing sound, muscular bass, but with total control, good at low and high volumes, great clarity, good in vertical or horizontal, not positionally fussy at all, but importantly for my tastes, tonally neutral.
I'm confused by my experiences, as mentioned in other posts, retailers may be influenced by margins etc, but I know the guys at this shop, they genuinely believe the bluesound to sound better, but they said things like "everybody who has listened to both preferred the Bluesound" not actually laying their own opinion on the line.
Anyway, once I have decided which rooms will be getting the SONOS treatment I'll be back on to bore you all with my setup choices
Yours, a SONOS convert (apologies for the length of the post!)
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Pursuing this subject, this is why most speakers for home listening have the bass boosted in comparison to treble, and have a frequency response curve that is smooth. So the frequency response chart looks like it typically does for many speakers these days: A hill on the left at the minimum frequency the speaker can deliver, gently and smoothly falling to a level that is maintained all the way to the right, with some climbing again at the right, near the treble end of the plot. Once the room has done with its bass attenuation act, the outcome heard is expected to be flat and smooth across the delivered frequencies with a mild bass boost. No surprise that the play 1 chart also hews to this; there is one on the net if one googles for it.
This thread would suggest that the BS charts would decidedly not look like this. I have not been able to find any though. I wonder if they reveal anything that accounts for the reported findings.
@chicks: thank you for that recommendation. I will take a look; I usually give our serials a pass because they are almost always dripping with melodrama, though things seem to be slowly changing. In many ways, the same relative difference is seen in what usually comes of out of the US and what can be found in Europe. West Wing versus Borgen, as one example. Or the two versions of The Bridge as another. The Brits also shine once in a while - as with Prime Suspect.
Userlevel 6
+15
House was one of the best shows on television.
Digressing a little, but on the subject of music - I recommend a listen to the Hugh Laurie music albums too. A very creditable interpretation of New Orleans jazz/blues. With a great band and guest artistes in support.
Agreed
[quote=Kumar] This thread would suggest that the BS charts would decidedly not look like this. I have not been able to find any though. I wonder if they reveal anything that accounts for the reported findings.
Hi Kumar
Only one other respondent on this thread appears to have done comparative testing on the two brands, and he clearly feels the same as I do about the results. I don't think the curve would reveal everything, the 'problem' is a very boxy midrange that makes vocal sound muffled and restrained. My wife walked in to the kitchen and commented that it sounded like the singer was underwater (Dave Grohl, a track that she knows well enough to be able to comment). I firmly believe that blind testing would only evr leave one winner, irrespective of tastes. I'm guessing that there is a certain amount of blind (deaf?) faith in Bluesound being the undispted audiophile choice, but frankly.... who says?
Hi Kumar
Only one other respondent on this thread appears to have done comparative testing on the two brands, and he clearly feels the same as I do about the results. I don't think the curve would reveal everything, the 'problem' is a very boxy midrange that makes vocal sound muffled and restrained. My wife walked in to the kitchen and commented that it sounded like the singer was underwater (Dave Grohl, a track that she knows well enough to be able to comment). I firmly believe that blind testing would only evr leave one winner, irrespective of tastes. I'm guessing that there is a certain amount of blind (deaf?) faith in Bluesound being the undispted audiophile choice, but frankly.... who says?
I tend to stay out of these discussions, since i have little experience in which to share, but there is a psychological phenomena that bears pointing out. Many people believe that something that is more expensive is better.
Often, but not always true.
Often, but not always true.
Often, but not always true.
That is why I am converting all my Sonos zones to Devialet Gold Phantom wireless speakers. At $3,000 apiece they naturally blow away the Sonos models. I don't even have to audition them to know they are the best.
Lol. Isn't there anything available for USD 6000 that is twice as good?
Seriously though, it would be worth investigating if it was found that Sonos blew the Devialets away. Which isn't to say that this can't be.
Seriously though, it would be worth investigating if it was found that Sonos blew the Devialets away. Which isn't to say that this can't be.
The “high end” audiophool mags are never going to review Sonos speakers, but Brent Butterworth, who does fairly objective reviews, compares the neutrality of the Play:1 to $3,000 speakers.
To sum up, the Play:1 measures extremely flat, comparable to what I might usually measure from a very good $3,000/pair tower speaker: ±2.7 dB on-axis, ±2.8 dB averaged across a listening window. To put that in perspective, any speaker with a deviation of ±3.0 dB or less would be considered a pretty well-engineered product.
Yes, I know this review. But he hasn't said that the expensive ones sound inferior to the play 1. And if I remember the review, somewhere in it he has lost his nerve and thrown in a sentence or two to protect himself from audiophile ire.
This is not a speaker. This is Phantom.
Forget what you think you know. Far more than a connected speaker, plug and play Phantom to trigger an intense emotional experience. Encounter the physical impact of a high-end ultra-dense sound. Instantly. With power, clarity and precision unlike anything you’ve heard before. Revolutionary. Hi-Fi, docks, speakers, home cinema. Wireless, bluetooth, multiroom. Phantom obliterates all existing systems.
But since we are talking about USD 3000 speakers, I had compared a play 1 pair to my Harbeth C7 pair in the same room, back in 2014, that cost about that much. And driven by no less than Quad 99/909 amplification. I was shocked to see how little was the difference, although the Harbeths were a little richer in the mid range and did the low frequencies thing noticeably better. But when I added the Sonos Sub to the 1 pair, remaining differences in favour of the Harbeths, while present, were vanishingly small even in absolute terms without assigning weightage to the USD 1000 cost of the Sonos set up versus the USD 5000 cost of the Harbeth+Quad one. It was a no brainer to complete my conversion and move to the land of the sensible, sell the Harbeths/Quads and move on in life. With a much better looking living room as a result of the unexpected bonus.
By the way, the Harbeth user forum, actively moderated by the owner, is a place to visit if you are looking for schizophrenia and fan boyism in full bloom. This forum is a pale shadow of it on the latter aspect. There, objective assessment of audio kit is correctly promoted, all the way to controlled DBTs, along with a very useful knowledge data base about audio in general. But no one can criticise the Harbeth sound and talk of similar controlled DBTs v other speakers is not permitted. I have stopped visiting because of the stifling cultish atmosphere. To his credit, the owner does not hide the fact that the forum is a manufacturer sponsored one, meant to promote sales. But that does not seem to keep enthusiastic owners away.
By the way, the Harbeth user forum, actively moderated by the owner, is a place to visit if you are looking for schizophrenia and fan boyism in full bloom. This forum is a pale shadow of it on the latter aspect. There, objective assessment of audio kit is correctly promoted, all the way to controlled DBTs, along with a very useful knowledge data base about audio in general. But no one can criticise the Harbeth sound and talk of similar controlled DBTs v other speakers is not permitted. I have stopped visiting because of the stifling cultish atmosphere. To his credit, the owner does not hide the fact that the forum is a manufacturer sponsored one, meant to promote sales. But that does not seem to keep enthusiastic owners away.
I’ll take my sound at regular density, thanks.
I would prefer to ionise the air in the room to better propagate sound waves.
Userlevel 7
+21
Wireless, bluetooth, multiroom. Phantom obliterates all existing systems.
Because Bluetooth is the ultimate in Hi-Fi quality, amiright? 🙂
Userlevel 1
+1
I know I'm late to this thread, but it has been one of the most entertaining reads on the community!
@Rascal6000 Thanks for the story. Well said. Enjoyed the read.
Having just recently set up my Play 5 and SUB in my dining room / living room / kitchen (open concept house), I'm loving every note that is played. Grin inducing for sure! I started with a stereo pair of Play One's in my study that I won from work and was very impressed with them. I did a run to BestBuy one afternoon and bought a bunch of different speakers, set them all up and tested them against eachother and then returned all the ones I didn't like.... all said and done... I have a Sonos home now... and looking to add more. Next on the wish list is another Play 5 for stereo pairing.
@Rascal6000 Thanks for the story. Well said. Enjoyed the read.
Having just recently set up my Play 5 and SUB in my dining room / living room / kitchen (open concept house), I'm loving every note that is played. Grin inducing for sure! I started with a stereo pair of Play One's in my study that I won from work and was very impressed with them. I did a run to BestBuy one afternoon and bought a bunch of different speakers, set them all up and tested them against eachother and then returned all the ones I didn't like.... all said and done... I have a Sonos home now... and looking to add more. Next on the wish list is another Play 5 for stereo pairing.
I went through a fairly in depth comparison of Blu vs Sonos as well ... all models in my home setting. It took some time and patience. In the end I settled on Sonos and purchased my first batch of speakers just this week with another batch arriving next week.
It really is a preference thing .. I didn't find enough difference in the sound between the two to sway me - I also have some Bose SoundTouch 30's. Each of the Blu/Sonos/Bose have their own unique sound but also all sound "good" so then I went with functionality and that's where Sonos won me over at this point.
Just my two cents worth ....
It really is a preference thing .. I didn't find enough difference in the sound between the two to sway me - I also have some Bose SoundTouch 30's. Each of the Blu/Sonos/Bose have their own unique sound but also all sound "good" so then I went with functionality and that's where Sonos won me over at this point.
Just my two cents worth ....
IMO, above all is the stability of music play; that or the absence of it trumps everything else. No amount of sound preference will survive interrupted music play in the long run, or even in the short run. Sonos does best in this respect, and the easy to like sound signature makes it an easy choice. That it is as much or more value for money than the others is a welcome bonus.
That's a really good point for sure and wasn't something that I thought about or experienced issues with ... ironically being a pretty new Sonos customer I find the app is pretty good but randomly crashes out (music still continues though) - iPhone X running latest app. Desktop app (Mac) I've used more to date with no issues ...
That the music play remains stable is more important, though I don't see any app crashes on my Android or Mac. Try deleting the app, powering down the phone, and reinstalling the app after a reboot; frequent app crashes can be irritating, I imagine, though not as much as music interruptions.
Thanks - great idea and will try ...
Well, never late than never.. beside i ended here because of google.. WXC-50 vs Sonos VS Bluesound... that brought me here.. So here is my own experience.
I have a very good amplifier (mcintosh) and was looking for a good DAC/streamer,, I bought a bluesound node and brought it home.. I immediately hated it. The sound produced by the Bluesound was artificial. The low were shortened (like dampened) Almost every sound curves were shortened. I believe the Blurrbrown DAC purposely does this to make the overall sound cleaner, but its way too fake.
I also noticed some weird tone distortion.
I tried to change the sound within BluOS app, but there is no such option. You can only change the Bass and Treble or bypass the mod. BlueOS doesn't allow to change anything in the sound.. You can not select how compressed
you want the sound to be.
Also, The node has a lower output level. Forcing you to play with your amplifier volume when switching sources.
I know one thing. The Dac on the node was boring and fake.. Some songs that i know did not sound right. i mean there are songs that i've hear my entire life,, They did not sound right on the bluesound node. So i returned the unit for a full refund.
My second purchase was the Yamaha WXC-50.. i used the same setup.. but this time i tested a full week.
I can tell you right now that the Yamaha WXC-50 is a better streamer than the Bluesound.
The yamaha has a more natural sound. Everything can be heard even the tiniest sound. It is much more pleasant to listen to the music with the Yamaha WXC-50,,,, If i had a party i would choose the WXC-50 for sure.
It also connect to every Bluetooh speakers around your place if you want to.
It is more solid for the money.. Metal case with vertical stand and comes with its remote although you can use your iphone/ipad/smartphone. On the WXC-50 can also change few Audio setting. You can set the music to stream uncompressed format (if you have wired connection). You couldn't do that on the bluesound.
However, the WXC-50 has few problems.. It doesn't work well with Deezer Flow. Yamaha musiccast has a bug making it impossible to FLOW on deezer (inside musiccast).
The second problem is it can not read MQA.
But if you dont need Deezer and MQA. This is a very nice StreamerDac.
Unfortunately i returned it because i need Deezer.
Now the third and final option is Sonos Connect. when i get one ill review it.. it shouldn't be too difficult to get one,, there are lots for sale on craiglist.
I have a very good amplifier (mcintosh) and was looking for a good DAC/streamer,, I bought a bluesound node and brought it home.. I immediately hated it. The sound produced by the Bluesound was artificial. The low were shortened (like dampened) Almost every sound curves were shortened. I believe the Blurrbrown DAC purposely does this to make the overall sound cleaner, but its way too fake.
I also noticed some weird tone distortion.
I tried to change the sound within BluOS app, but there is no such option. You can only change the Bass and Treble or bypass the mod. BlueOS doesn't allow to change anything in the sound.. You can not select how compressed
you want the sound to be.
Also, The node has a lower output level. Forcing you to play with your amplifier volume when switching sources.
I know one thing. The Dac on the node was boring and fake.. Some songs that i know did not sound right. i mean there are songs that i've hear my entire life,, They did not sound right on the bluesound node. So i returned the unit for a full refund.
My second purchase was the Yamaha WXC-50.. i used the same setup.. but this time i tested a full week.
I can tell you right now that the Yamaha WXC-50 is a better streamer than the Bluesound.
The yamaha has a more natural sound. Everything can be heard even the tiniest sound. It is much more pleasant to listen to the music with the Yamaha WXC-50,,,, If i had a party i would choose the WXC-50 for sure.
It also connect to every Bluetooh speakers around your place if you want to.
It is more solid for the money.. Metal case with vertical stand and comes with its remote although you can use your iphone/ipad/smartphone. On the WXC-50 can also change few Audio setting. You can set the music to stream uncompressed format (if you have wired connection). You couldn't do that on the bluesound.
However, the WXC-50 has few problems.. It doesn't work well with Deezer Flow. Yamaha musiccast has a bug making it impossible to FLOW on deezer (inside musiccast).
The second problem is it can not read MQA.
But if you dont need Deezer and MQA. This is a very nice StreamerDac.
Unfortunately i returned it because i need Deezer.
Now the third and final option is Sonos Connect. when i get one ill review it.. it shouldn't be too difficult to get one,, there are lots for sale on craiglist.
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