http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/3/7/14828738/sonos-playbase-tv-speaker-soundbar-announced
"But home theater enthusiasts might be disappointed with some of the technical details. For one, the Playbase doesn’t support DTS multichannel audio. Neither does the Playbar. Here’s what a company spokesperson had to say about that decision (emphasis ours):
For home entertainment, DTS content is only found on physical media such as DVD, Blu-ray and Laserdisc – no video streaming services such as Netflix or Hulu support DTS. Sonos is focused on modern listeners who predominantly stream and because most physical discs encode DTS at bitrates substantially similar to Dolby Digital, we have decided to not support DTS on PLAYBASE as we don’t believe it offers a better listening experience for the majority of owners."
I really love my SONOS system. The sound is indeed great, but I cannot understand how it comes that SONOS isn’t paying any attention to all the users that have been claiming for DTS support for years now.
Apparently, they don’t plan to support anytime soon because they are affirming that SONOS is made for the modern users that uses streaming and no streaming service offers DTS at the moment. Ah they also said on the interview that there is not much difference on DTS sound.
SONOS was one of the first speakers to support Hi-Fi and always have been on the vanguard for audiophiles. I really think that these comments are discrepant and are at least conflicting with the company’s past. I really hope that SONOS reconsider.
There is also a segment about HDMI support on the article.
“While newer HDMI standards such as HDMI ARC and CEC promise increased control functionality, they are unlikely to be found on TVs that are several years old and are still implemented in a fragmented way across newer TV models,” the Sonos spokesperson said. “We continue to monitor the state of HDMI audio implementations in the market for future roadmap products.”
Apparently, we cannot expect SONOS to be on the vanguard anymore.
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Userlevel 7
+21
It's unfortunate that Sonos feels that they only need to support audio formats from streaming services. There are TONS of topics here wanting DTS support... lots of topics about what Blu-Ray players will convert audio to DD since the Playbar (and now Playbase) don't support DTS... even a topic about NEW 4K Blu-Ray players that support this conversion!
WAKE UP SONOS!
There may be a large desire for streaming in the world today, but that doesn't mean that discs and physical formats are going away anytime soon! REAL movie enthusiasts will NEVER stream movies exclusively (they might do it as a matter of convenience occasionally, but they'll still have their discs)!
While I personally don't have any issues with supporting only Dolby Digital 5.1 - I have a good game console that can handle this conversion for everything fed through it, disc or streaming - I still think it's horribly short-sighted for Sonos to continue to not support DTS after the big showing of support for it there is here in this community over the years. If it really isn't a hardware limitation, there is no reason it shouldn't be supported.
WAKE UP SONOS!
There may be a large desire for streaming in the world today, but that doesn't mean that discs and physical formats are going away anytime soon! REAL movie enthusiasts will NEVER stream movies exclusively (they might do it as a matter of convenience occasionally, but they'll still have their discs)!
While I personally don't have any issues with supporting only Dolby Digital 5.1 - I have a good game console that can handle this conversion for everything fed through it, disc or streaming - I still think it's horribly short-sighted for Sonos to continue to not support DTS after the big showing of support for it there is here in this community over the years. If it really isn't a hardware limitation, there is no reason it shouldn't be supported.
There's a world of difference between DD and silence. People don't necessarily want core DTS for better sound - it's more that it's present on most discs now and means they don't need to plan a multitude of workarounds, extra/new hardware and more cabling.
Userlevel 7
+17
Iam exactly like you. I have just bought a LG OLED 4K tv with 4hdmi 2.0 ports. As my sony av amp is prior 4k, I have moved all HDMI's to the tv and just have optical out to the amp. The tv passes DD5.1 & DTS through, all good. If I decided to tidy things up and invest in this new playbase, I would have no sound from my blu-rays or UHD discs playing through PS4, which gives better quality visuals than any streaming service will for many years to come.
A potential sale lost, I would more likely buy a 4K av amp replacement.
A potential sale lost, I would more likely buy a 4K av amp replacement.
I understand (but don't necessarily agree with) the belief that no HDMI makes things 'simpler'.
I don't understand for one second how lack of DTS decoding does.
It is completely missing the point for Sonos to suggest people can't tell the difference or even mention bitrates. Fact is, with DTS decoding, people don't need to care - it will just play.
I have an amp that has no HDMI ports but does have optical. I feed 4 HDMI sources into my TV and an optical from the tv into the amp. My TV passes all audio, inc. DTS, through its optical output and I have true surround for all sources. If I connected the optical to the Playbase, I wouldn't.
I'm not sure where the notion of DTS being a tiny proportion of audio output comes from unless we completely ignore and alienate people with dvd and bluray players where it is the most common audio format. Even if the disc is DTS HD it would still contain 'standard' DTS too.
As for not being able to tell the difference between DD5.1 and DTS, with the current hardware and without any user instigated workarounds, the difference is stark. One will be rather quieter than the other....
I don't understand for one second how lack of DTS decoding does.
It is completely missing the point for Sonos to suggest people can't tell the difference or even mention bitrates. Fact is, with DTS decoding, people don't need to care - it will just play.
I have an amp that has no HDMI ports but does have optical. I feed 4 HDMI sources into my TV and an optical from the tv into the amp. My TV passes all audio, inc. DTS, through its optical output and I have true surround for all sources. If I connected the optical to the Playbase, I wouldn't.
I'm not sure where the notion of DTS being a tiny proportion of audio output comes from unless we completely ignore and alienate people with dvd and bluray players where it is the most common audio format. Even if the disc is DTS HD it would still contain 'standard' DTS too.
As for not being able to tell the difference between DD5.1 and DTS, with the current hardware and without any user instigated workarounds, the difference is stark. One will be rather quieter than the other....
Userlevel 1
Netflix streams audio in DD+ which is not supported over toslink, only HDMI. Not supporting HDMI is such a bad choice.
+2
I'm guessing my wireless surround budget is going elsewhere. If I'm buying that else where I am going to investigate changing my whole system over I don't want to have to change app depending on which room I'm in or be unable to link room to make sure the sound in each room is synced and not out of phase. I have nearly bought a soundbar a few times and this is the ONLY reason I stop myself each time. Had I bought the bar I would have by now bought a sub and a couple of 1's or 3's for the rear so the revenue loss is very real.
Userlevel 7
+17
I can't help feeling sonos are really twisting things, and their PR department working overtime, to come with no streaming service uses DTS, as an excuse for not supporting it. That just alienates the majority of people that have dvds, blu-rays, playstations, and boy have they got a surprise after they have bought the playbar or playbase as no salesman is going to tell them. They all turn up on here along with bbc iplayer complaints!!
Userlevel 7
+17
you would think that the new CEO, with his experience at Blackberry, would be all too aware of the risks of not moving with the times !
2nd time around it makes no sense at all to not support DTS via optical - even just to offset the negative press !
We were all queue up to replace our PlayBar with the new PlayBase when it came out just to get this "missing" functionality. We had even worked out were the PlayBar was going. But oh no Sonos shot themselves in the foot and release the PlayBase as effectively the same product as the PlayBar just with a different shaped box to house it in!
I am not defending Sonos at all. I love their products for playing music but their home theater offering doesn't exist in my mind. This is why I have never purchased a Play Bar. I'm sorry your friend invested and is disappointed but this problem has been present for many years and it is no a secret. At some level, there should be some personal responsibility to know what you are buying BEFORE you spend the money. Returning products because you were too lazy to understand what you were buying is unethical. Sonos deciding not to support a specific feature is not. FWIW, some people do real-time conversion of DTS to DD and others go through their TV's and output to the Play Bar. As I understand it, most TVs won't output DTS (another one of Sonos's excuses).
As for why Sonos isn't supporting DTS, I heard somewhere there were issues supporting DTS using wireless transmissions. I have no idea if this is a technical reason, something in DTS's spec requirements, or just an excuse not to pay the royalties. Whatever the reason, like you, DTS is important to me and the lack of support is why Sonos is not a home theater company (in my mind). Sonos is a premium brand, not supporting standard audio formats is a bit embarrassing if you ask me. From what I understand, they don't handle high bit-rate FLAC files either...if that is important to you.
All we can do is voice our opinion and hope someone listens. Sonos is by no means required to be what you or I want them to be. Although, personally, I would buy more of their products if they were. I can be disappointed but I am not going to be mad at them. That doesn't help anyone.
As for why Sonos isn't supporting DTS, I heard somewhere there were issues supporting DTS using wireless transmissions. I have no idea if this is a technical reason, something in DTS's spec requirements, or just an excuse not to pay the royalties. Whatever the reason, like you, DTS is important to me and the lack of support is why Sonos is not a home theater company (in my mind). Sonos is a premium brand, not supporting standard audio formats is a bit embarrassing if you ask me. From what I understand, they don't handle high bit-rate FLAC files either...if that is important to you.
All we can do is voice our opinion and hope someone listens. Sonos is by no means required to be what you or I want them to be. Although, personally, I would buy more of their products if they were. I can be disappointed but I am not going to be mad at them. That doesn't help anyone.
Wake up Sonos - Add DTS and you’ll sell a whole bunch more units - the ROI will be a no- brainer.
Userlevel 2
+4
It seems to me that moving with the times and utilising the latest technology is not one of SONOS' strong suits; neither is listening to their customers.
If you contact them in regards to a Playbar 2 with multiple HDMI ports instead of an optical only cable and DTS compatibility, they will deny that their customers have ever requested this and tell you that an 'optical cable is the future because of streaming content like Netflix' - both of which are simply not true. I can only speak for myself, but my Netflix and Amazon accounts stream from my player via an HDMI connection to my TV, and it's the output that is then limited by the use of the stupid optical cable!
HDMI is the standard, optical cables are archaic - there's not a huge range of TVs which even support a basic 5.1 input/output through an optical cable (most only do 2.0) and even then it's often compressed.
You also only have to spend 5 minutes searching the boards to realise HDMI ports and DTS compatibility are two of the most requested features.
Unfortunately SONOS are a bit like Apple: they're not interested in what their customers want, they hear what they want to, and they prefer to dictate. Their customer service has always been pretty lamentable in my experience.
If you contact them in regards to a Playbar 2 with multiple HDMI ports instead of an optical only cable and DTS compatibility, they will deny that their customers have ever requested this and tell you that an 'optical cable is the future because of streaming content like Netflix' - both of which are simply not true. I can only speak for myself, but my Netflix and Amazon accounts stream from my player via an HDMI connection to my TV, and it's the output that is then limited by the use of the stupid optical cable!
HDMI is the standard, optical cables are archaic - there's not a huge range of TVs which even support a basic 5.1 input/output through an optical cable (most only do 2.0) and even then it's often compressed.
You also only have to spend 5 minutes searching the boards to realise HDMI ports and DTS compatibility are two of the most requested features.
Unfortunately SONOS are a bit like Apple: they're not interested in what their customers want, they hear what they want to, and they prefer to dictate. Their customer service has always been pretty lamentable in my experience.
Userlevel 7
+22
I don't accept the notion that because they, Sonos, have not adopted DTS that "SONOS isn’t paying any attention to all the users that have been claiming for DTS support for years now" - Sonos DO pay attention to their users. Not only do they read and engage with users of this forum they doubtless perform in depth analysis of the Playbar use and the audio sources thereof.
Also, I agree that if I were to listen to a DD5.1 source and then a DTS soundtrack through a DTS enabled Sonos 5.1 setup I doubt I would be able to tell the difference.
Given that Sonos do not market the Playbar as a Home Theatre audiophile solution and rather have taken the clear step that the Playbar should be as simple as possible it is hardly surprising that they have taken the pragmatic decision to side step DTS which, after all, represents a tiny proportion of the audio input (obviously those with DTS sources have to convert or will get nothing) into the Playbar.
Also, I agree that if I were to listen to a DD5.1 source and then a DTS soundtrack through a DTS enabled Sonos 5.1 setup I doubt I would be able to tell the difference.
Given that Sonos do not market the Playbar as a Home Theatre audiophile solution and rather have taken the clear step that the Playbar should be as simple as possible it is hardly surprising that they have taken the pragmatic decision to side step DTS which, after all, represents a tiny proportion of the audio input (obviously those with DTS sources have to convert or will get nothing) into the Playbar.
Userlevel 7
+17
it was a bizarre omission the first time around on the Playbar. For those that remember, there was a very long and heated thread on the old forum about it where it was 'under consideration' (someone at sonos said it could be added retrospectively) for a whole year before they finally came out and said they wouldnt do it.
2nd time around it makes no sense at all to not support DTS via optical - even just to offset the negative press !
2nd time around it makes no sense at all to not support DTS via optical - even just to offset the negative press !
What a shame. I consider myself a "modern listener" and use PLEX to watch movies. More then half my movies have DTS encoded audio. PLEX supports DTS, my Samsung TV can pass DTS. I too would be a Playbar/Playbase customer if Sonos only added DTS. I bet they don't want to pay up for the DTS licensing - which is crazy considering the cost for the Playbar/Playbase, it should support everything.
The main purpose of the soundbar is for TV. So deciding to not support DTS because Sonos users predominantly use streaming services is completely wrong. It is the case for music, but not TV.
Also, the reason for lack of DTS support is because the optical cable makes it incompatible. This also, is a daft thing to stick with because most TVs are moving away from legacy connections like TosLink and those that do have it (or an amp) about half the TVs do not have an option to mute the sound from the TV while using TosLink so you end up with two sounds (TV/soundbar).
I desperately want a soundbar for my new room and Sonos makes all sense given I have 5 other speakers, but this reliance on old technology means I cannot justify the price or even the tech.
Also, the reason for lack of DTS support is because the optical cable makes it incompatible. This also, is a daft thing to stick with because most TVs are moving away from legacy connections like TosLink and those that do have it (or an amp) about half the TVs do not have an option to mute the sound from the TV while using TosLink so you end up with two sounds (TV/soundbar).
I desperately want a soundbar for my new room and Sonos makes all sense given I have 5 other speakers, but this reliance on old technology means I cannot justify the price or even the tech.
I have invested heavily in Sonos equipment over the years. New Play5, 4 Play1’s and my 5.1 set up. The lack of DTS support has frustrated me for years. Now with more and more BluRays only supporting DTS I’m no longer able to put up with the lack of DTS support. I’m in the process of selling it all!
Sonos lack of foresight and giving the customer what it wants means they are losing potential customers. Friends, colleagues and family come to me all the time asking for my advice on technology. 4 have asked me about the Sonos Playbar and I’ve had to steer them to alternative brands because playing a simple BluRay is becoming harder to achieve. It is just downright disappointing.
Sonos lack of foresight and giving the customer what it wants means they are losing potential customers. Friends, colleagues and family come to me all the time asking for my advice on technology. 4 have asked me about the Sonos Playbar and I’ve had to steer them to alternative brands because playing a simple BluRay is becoming harder to achieve. It is just downright disappointing.
Userlevel 1
sonos saying they support modern customers with 1979 dolby digital support. I paid for a premium product that they cant be bothered to update to allow increased functionality. money grabbing bastards.
I just hope they will do something about it. Its simply annoying I have a lot of digital files that I stream to my tv that have DTS and none of them produce sound... I agree with some of the other comments that I should have known this and read through the specs before buying but its such a big minus point. Makes the playbar a lot less enjoyable
This kinda news make me wanna sell all my Sonos stuff...
https://www.whathifi.com/news/samsungs-dolby-atmos-soundbars-get-dts-51-update
https://www.whathifi.com/news/samsungs-dolby-atmos-soundbars-get-dts-51-update
I own various Play 3 and Play 5 Gen 2 speakers around my home and are very happy with them. I have been reading all these posts about the DTS problem and i agree with most people, why on earth would sonos come out with a Playbar or Playbase that does not support DTS? A high end home cinema product with a high price tag that is very limited regarding what it can decode.
I have a denon AVR amp that im using that has all the Codecs you need paired with the Q Acoustics 7000i speaker package, which is cheaper in cost and offers better connectivity. I was looking to downsize to just use a soundbar, wireless sub and a couple of wireless speakers. After reading this about the Playbar and this DTS problem im now looking at the Bose Soundtouch 300 as it is better value for money for what you get overall. The Bose Soundtouch accepts DTS signals, has HDMI and is similar priced.
From reading the posts it looks to me that sonos dont care what people think and are only doing what they want to do. Come on Sonos listen to your existing customers. All i can say is Sonos you have lost a sale from me.
I have a denon AVR amp that im using that has all the Codecs you need paired with the Q Acoustics 7000i speaker package, which is cheaper in cost and offers better connectivity. I was looking to downsize to just use a soundbar, wireless sub and a couple of wireless speakers. After reading this about the Playbar and this DTS problem im now looking at the Bose Soundtouch 300 as it is better value for money for what you get overall. The Bose Soundtouch accepts DTS signals, has HDMI and is similar priced.
From reading the posts it looks to me that sonos dont care what people think and are only doing what they want to do. Come on Sonos listen to your existing customers. All i can say is Sonos you have lost a sale from me.
According to Wikipedia , TOSLink does support DD+, just not the uncompressed version of DD+. I find it highly unlikely Netfilx streams uncompressed DD+
Userlevel 1
Plex is a streaming service. Plex uses DTS. Please support DTS.
Userlevel 3
+5
Sonos is playing to a larger common base here. While hdmi standards have changed versions over the years primarily due to video, optical audio has not changed much, if at all. So they may want to play safe to make sure there is longevity to their products at the cost of not adapting unstable technologies or those on the faste lane to obsolescence.
How many people really have space for a surround system? Possibly market analyses and survey data speak a different language than "Home theater" supporters.
Two years ago I had a "no name"-soundbase with HDMI input and from the start changing tv input proved as a source of annoyance, either the picture froze or the screen turned black; after a couple of months I sh..canned it. With Toslink the sound latency sometimes is annoying but at least it does not refuse to cooperate with HDMI switches.
Two years ago I had a "no name"-soundbase with HDMI input and from the start changing tv input proved as a source of annoyance, either the picture froze or the screen turned black; after a couple of months I sh..canned it. With Toslink the sound latency sometimes is annoying but at least it does not refuse to cooperate with HDMI switches.
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