Question

[Fundamental issues] streaming surround not inherently supported!!

  • 7 November 2019
  • 18 replies
  • 434 views
M
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I have a BenQ W1070 projector from roughly 5 years ago and have wanted to buy into the Sonos ecosystem for forever!  

I finally splurged a few days ago and got a Port (to attach in my Yamaha YAS-203 soundbar), 2 play ones, and two play fives in an effort to massively upgrade my sound system.  I was previously splitting off the sound from the HDMI and wiring that to the sound bar via an optical cable.  Incidentally, I'm an electrical engineer by trade.

Guys, I was blown away to find out how much trouble I'm going to have to go through to be able to get 5.1 surround sound working with the Sonos ecosystem.  I'm stunned!!  I don't understand the business strategy, to me it seems like the millennials who are low tech enough to, lol, want to wire in a turn table to their Sonos system, won't make enough money in life to afford a Sonos system!  I'm not necessarily even saying I want Sonos to play DD+ through the speakers because I understand the hardware issues involved, but at least inherently support the downconversion from DD+ to DD, and pipe the DD through the speakers.

 

I just paid close to 2k for this gear, and as of this morning, I went ahead and ordered a Beam as well to see if that will get me to where I can stream Netflix/HBO in 5.0 surround over my Chromecast streamed from my Android Pixel 2.  However, if that doesn’t do it, i may need to just return all of this, which is very dissapointing.  I’ve spent around eight of the past 24 hours researching how i may be able to get this to work!!!  That seems pretty ridiculous for a 2k system!

My expectation for a system like this is simple - I should be able to pipe sound to any of these speakers however i see fit - if i want surround sound, i pipe sound (assuming DD or DD+ source or above) to any five of the speakers, whichever five i choose - i call one of them center, two of them left/right, and two of them SL+SR, and certainly I would expect the Port (connected to legacy equipment) to be able to act as at least one of those five channels.  Done!!

Ok back to reality. To the friendly forum users - is this issue solved for anyone?  I know i’m not the only user with a projector.  I find it hard to believe they would rely on users have specific TVs to downconvert DD+ into DD to pipe 5.1 into the Beam.  I have been so impressed with the sound of Sonos and the branding, but i feel like i have been duped!!  Can anyone help recommend any other peripheral hardware I'd need to get this system working for my only five year old projector that still looks better than plenty of more expensive, smaller 4k TV's?

And further - to the Sonos development team - you guys have a legion of smart, somewhat wealthy guys here basically saying "take my money, please, but give me basic surround sound".  Who doesn't like surround sound?  I look at home theater the same as speakers used for music, they pump sound into your room, and I want to be able to switch from stereo to surround with the click of a button depend on the situation.

Funny, before I'd really researched this in the past 24 hours I was telling my buddies earlier this week that I was getting this amazing system where I could pipe sound to seven speakers for 7.1, and then when I was done could move two of the speakers upstairs for zone music playing, and it was this great flexible system.  Come to find out, 2k$ later the system doesn't even inherently support 5.1 surround sound streaming from Netflix or HBO, who dominate the streaming market (and for plenty of us, this is the only way we watch TV programming)!!

 

Thanks guys!

-Mitch

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18 replies

J

I haven't read your post beyond the point at which you seemed to want the Port to do surround sound, when it is designed and marketed as a device for playing stereo music theough a conventional hifi.

J

I have now resd a bit more. Astonishing. You invent an idea of how the system should be and then when it is designed to do something completely different you are stunned.

Ectraordinary.

melvimbe

I hate to say it, but this sounds fictitious to me.    You can not make a surround system with the equipment you have purchased. It doesn’t make any sense that you would attempt to setup your system this way after “wanting to get into the ecosystem forever.  Using a Port with your Yamaha soundbar would only get you stereo input/output, not 5.1 or 7.1.  I can’t believe someone with an electrical engineering degree who apparently knows a least a little about electronics would spend close to $2k without reading the advertised functions and specs of what he’s buying or at least looking at the back of the product to see what connections are available.

 

Why would you complain about DD/DD+ issues when all you could possibly get with what you bought is stereo?

Why would you then buy a  Beam, without checking to see if does the conversation you want it to do?

 

Why no mention of the echo effect/lip sync issues you are going to hear when you connect a Port (and thus other speakers grouped to the Port) to your Yamaha soundbar?

 

Maybe I’m wrong and this is a real, but much of this makes no sense.

Danny
J

Hi Danny. I think you.must be right. The post is ridiculous one way or another.

jgatie

I have to agree with the other posters.  The Port is not meant for usage in surround sound setups.  You effectively bought two motorcycles and are complaining you can’t haul a truckload of gravel. 

M
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Danny, I'm here man, and yes it's totally real.  I hear you guys questions, just please keep in mind you guys are probably Sonos experts relative to me.  Yeah, ordering this stuff was probably dumb of me!!

I honestly had a tough time reading through all of the literature and learning exactly what the system could and (more importantly) COULDN'T do.  I think part of that is these splash marketing pages that describe the products in super simple terms that have an emotional context like "connect more" and "free your music" and that type of thing.  Being an engineer, I would much rather see technical information in black and white.

So that being said, reading the limited manuals prior to buying, I was certainly surprised by the limited I/O on these products, but honest my takeaway on their 'drive to further simplicity', if you will, was my INCORRECT assumption that they were trying to do what Apple did with the smartphone, give users just a single button - simplicity and user experience above everything....So, with that said, yes I walked into this with certain assumptions (not the least of which was influenced by the high price I was paying) that interoperability and flexibility would be seamless and almost boundless, within the confines of the ecosystem they've defined.

Finally, with super simple names like "port" and "beam" you end up making it super difficult from a 

M
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*finishing the last thought, sent accidentally.

 

Finally, with super simple names like "port" and "beam" one on hand marketing will love a product that has this type of extreme name recognition, but from a Search Engine Optimization perspective you have a nightmare as a consumer trying to research the interoperability on their now rather large ecosystem.  There's practically not a product on the planet that doesn't contain a port and there are thousands of other uses of the word beam in electronics contexts.  You have to sift through a massive quagmire of information to find examples of users that have successfully done what you're trying to do or to even find reviews that are super relevant to your exact situation.  At the end of the day, words this common as product brands are not the panacea marketing thinks they are, and the consumer is on the wrong end of it.

melvimbe

There is nothing wrong with Sonos marketing material.  The support pages on this site are also rather clear on how to setup Sonos home theatre.    There are people that get confused from time to time, but I don’t recall people getting confused about what products to get or features,  then complaining about codecs.

 

Just for some basics, you can’t use your Yamaha soundbar in a Sonos home theatre setup.  You wouldn’t be able to do that with any of Sonos competitors either.   You need to have a Beam, Playbar, Playabase, or Sonos Amp connected to the TV or video source, and this device will cover all 3 front channels left-center-right.  From their you can add 2 rear speakers (play:1, sonos one, Sonos one SL is good, play:5 is too much) and a Sub.  You get 5.1 dolby digital, 7.1 or anytihng else is not possible.   Sonos does PCM stereo or dolby digital only.  With HDMI-ARC connections, your TV is instructed to send dolby digital.  For others, you need to make sure source device is capable and set to sending dobly digital.

 

So the Port, and 2 play:5s need to be returned or used elsewhere.  The Yamaha can’t be used.

 

And not even Sonos related, but the “.1” in 5.1 or 7.1 corresponds to a subwoofer, which you don’t have.

 

 

Danny
Ryan S
Userlevel 7
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Hey mitchflow, you might find some good answers on our Home Theater Megathread. For home theater designed Sonos devices, there are ones with optical input, the Playbar and Playbase, and devices with HDMI-Arc connections Amp, and Beam. All of those devices are designed to operate as the front channels of the home theater system (Front Left, Right, and Center). The Amp only has outputs for Right and Left, but will create a phantom center channel when you’re using it for a TV source.

Along with those home theater master devices, you can add a pair of matching Sonos players for surrounds, or use an Amp with a set of non-powered speakers. 

Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.
M
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Haha, are the posters (i.e. fanboys, lol) here compensated in some way??  Danny, i respectfully disagree with your assertion that there’s nothing wrong with the marketing materials.  

 

The bottom line is SONOS offers a set of home theater products which out of the box simply don’t give me anything more than stereo when streaming from top tier services (typically Netlix and HBO Go) due to the fact that none of their products natively support DD+ or above.  As folks on reddit will remind you, even DD+ is 10 years old!!

 

Finally, I’ll add here guys, i didn’t buy this system and this hardware exclusively for home theater, i looked at Sonos specifically because of its perceived flexibility.  I’m getting married soon and wanted speakers that could be setup all around my back deck for the big party, and then also afterwards i could re-purpose some of them to typically be used for home theater, while others would go in different rooms in the house for music.

J

Dead giveaways for a troll. Newly joined member, calls regular posters 'fanboys' and suggests they are paid by Sonos. How unoriginal. Thanks for the laugh.

M
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Ok, last post for now...i dont’ want to give off the impression that i’m just going around bashing Sonos, the speakers do sound amazing!!  

 

The thing i’m baffled with the most is, above and beyond my snafu of not realizing the system couldn’t handle DD+ surround without a special TV, is what value the Port is actually bringing to the table???

There’s literally a product on Amazon for $30 that basically does the same thing as the $400 Port.  The Phorus PR5 Receiver with PlayFi.  You're paying $370 to stay in the Sonos eco system.  That's my assertion on the Port.  

Change my mind!!

M
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Dead giveaways for a troll. Newly joined member, calls regular posters 'fanboys' and suggests they are paid by Sonos. How unoriginal. Thanks for the laugh.

John, try to discredit me all you want to, I'm happy to take pictures of the system I bought and post them up here.  I'm not a troll.  What do you need to see?

 

I'm a new user here because I just bought the system, clearly had some issues, and found this place and came here to ask for some help and hopefully warn a couple other folks so they didn't make the same mistake I did!!!

M
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I think the most helpful thing I could get from you guys is this - are you guys aware of any peripherals I could buy that would convert DD+ down to DD, either before I have separated HDMI from the audio or after.

 

Ken_Griffiths

I think the most helpful thing I could get from you guys is this - are you guys aware of any peripherals I could buy that would convert DD+ down to DD, either before I have separated HDMI from the audio or after.

Assuming I’m understanding your requirements correctly, this looks to me like it might do the job you’re looking for…

https://www.kanexpro.com/item/?id=HAECOAX3

Hope that assists.👍

 

M
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Thank you Ken!!

From what I can tell, that one will pass the DD+ through and not downconvert it to DD, per the following quoted from your link:

 

Audio Formats: 

  • HDMI Audio Formats pass-thru: LPCM 2/5.1/7.1CH, Dolby Digital, DTS 5.1, Dolby Digital+, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X

 

Anyone else from this awesome community have any ideas?  Anyone else got a projector setup working with 5.0 surround??

-Mitch

Ken_Griffiths

Thank you Ken!!

From what I can tell, that one will pass the DD+ through and not downconvert it to DD, per the following quoted from your link:

 

Audio Formats: 

  • HDMI Audio Formats pass-thru: LPCM 2/5.1/7.1CH, Dolby Digital, DTS 5.1, Dolby Digital+, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X

 

Anyone else from this awesome community have any ideas?  Anyone else got a projector setup working with 5.0 surround??

-Mitch

I appreciate the audio extractor will pass-through the various supported codecs, but if you read the FAQ, it mentions if the switch to the left of the HDMI-IN port is set to 2 Ch stereo it will output that format no matter what the input is… I don’t see the point in having that switch otherwise? So it should work with your Sonos Port line-In if that’s what you are trying to do?

 

Ken_Griffiths

There’s also this audio extractor, slightly more expensive, that 'appears' to do all the Dolby Digital formats upto and including Dolby Atmos (DolbyTrueHD) aswell as DTS HD and can either pass-through the audio stream, or covert it to either 2ch stereo, or Dolby Digital 5.1 ..and it has HDMI ARC.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tendak-Switcher-Optical-Toslink-Extractor/dp/B07YD2CLMY/ref=sr_1_5_sspa

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