2 sub setup poll, come have your say!

P

Hi all new to the forum, but far from new to Sonos.

Fantastic products that are bloody addictive 

 

I've been speaking to Sonos direct about this was advised to come here and hopefully some of there engineers and software developers are lurking around here. 

 

My question is who here would love to see Sonos add a feature in the app for individual sub gain/volume and sub frequency.

 

For those that have 2 subs in there HT setup this proposal to Sonos will allow the users more fine tuning setup, in return suiting different rooms and distances etc etc and also if this is possible have a sub frequency option so we can adjust the frequency to our taste and liking and setups 30/40hz and up they sound like there preset @ 80hz min

I feel very strongly about both of these should be in the app so the user has full control.

 

It's not the case of one size fits all, I believe this would be welcomed worldwide from a Very large volume of users

a simple yes or no reply would work great.

I'd like to get and gain world wide movement on this to get these features added the more users show interest greater chance we have of Sonos considering it,

 

Spread it far and wide to all Sonos users and enthusiasts 

 

P.s. if a poll can be started can someone help me thanks 

 

 

 

 

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21 replies

N
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

 

My question is who here would love to see Sonos add a feature in the app for individual sub gain/volume and sub frequency.

 

For those that have 2 subs in there HT setup this proposal to Sonos will allow the users more fine tuning setup, in return suiting different rooms and distances etc etc and also if this is possible have a sub frequency option so we can adjust the frequency to our taste and liking and setups 30/40hz and up they sound like there preset @ 80hz min

 

I don’t know how many users would need or appreciate a control by frequency, or a 10-band (or however many) graphics equaliser, if that’s what you’re asking? There is a (crude) EQ setting, and a Sub boost capability under settings. What more are you suggesting? 

N
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Sorry - I re-read your post. You’re suggesting separate frequency controls for each sub. 

P

No sorry nothing alike, I'm suggesting and requesting for seperate gain/volume controls for each sub instead of single control like it is now under sub audio in the menu

and also add frequency control for the sub if this is  possible for both subs under single control or individual would be the cherry on top.

 

A 10 band eq for the rest of the system would be really neat but can't see Sonos ever going for that, as that would be suited to the more advanced users again this would be the second cherry on top, to have. Basic eq like it does now and advanced option for a 10 band for the more serious enthusiasts 

 

My apologies In advance my writing is one my poorest skills in life unfortunately 

UKMedia
Userlevel 7
Badge +20

I think the main issue here is that the Sonos set-up with two subs is not a true 5.2 configuration.  The two Subs are just duplications of a single channel.  As a result, I suspect that what you are asking for would entail a major piece of work.

Remember: Sometimes Red Wine helps :)
P

Oh ok, I wasn't aware not a true 5.2 most likely explains the single gain/volume adjustment, certainly may hamper the whole idea now 

Thus would be a hardware issue not a software issue correct 

melvimbe

I could very well be wrong, but I always thought that there wasn’t really any true sub channel in home theatre codecs.  The channel was really just made up audio in the front channels that are below the frequency range of the front channel speakers.  So if your front speakers can handle much of the lower range, you’re still getting the bass (or a lot of it) without even having a sub.

Forgetting home theatre audio for a second, when playing music, it comes in stereo, just two channels.  When you add a sub to the setup, it’s not as if a 3rd bass channel is pulled from the source, your system just sends the lower frequencies of the source to the sub instead, for better performance of the overall system. Your individual system should be setup with sending the right frequencies to the speakers and sub based on the capabilities of the speakers/sub.  I don’t think HT audio works any differently.

That said, I don’t see any value of allowing power users to adjust the frequency range that speakers and sub are responsible for.    Since it’s all Sonos gear, the system knows where the crossovers should be at best.  If  we were talking about an amp with unknown passive speakers with specific freq range, and unknown sub and it’s range….then there would be a need to manually adjust to get the best coverage.

 

As far as gain, that essentially exists already for one sub.  Would there be a benefit of adjusting gain between two subs depending on individual taste and where they are physically located?  Not sure on that one.  I can see possibly if a sub is placed far away from the seating area, then gain could be higher than a sub placed right behind seating area, but I really don’t know if there is an advantage to that at low sub frequencies.

 

 

 

Danny
buzz

In the 5.1 audio formats “.1” is a low frequency effects channel that carries thumps and bumps inserted by the content producer.

On playback this division can be maintained in a 5.1 speaker arrangement, but only if there is a separate subwoofer channel and speaker. If there is no separate subwoofer it is customary to mix the thumps and bumps into the front L/R. In systems with an available subwoofer, but the front speakers are too small to provide effective bass, it is customary for the playback system to remove the low bass from L/R and send it to the subwoofer along with the thumps and bumps.

In terms of playback adjustments, the equipment manufacturers are caught between a rock and a hard place. One crew of listeners wants adjustments to determine exactly how the channels are divvied up with all sorts of  level, time, and equalizer adjustments. These guys (they almost always seem to be males, but I have seen a few females in this group) always think that they are better judges of “best” sound than producers and other “experts”. The other crew is fleeing from “complicated” and does not appreciate all of the adjustments. SONOS is science based and tends to cater to the “uncomplicated” group. In terms of a business model, there are legions more “uncomplicated” potential customers than “experts”.

Both crews have members who can yell very loudly in an effort to promote their view of the situation. With respect to providing secret menus for “experts” to tinker with, once the existence of these menus is discovered, these models are dumped into the “complicated” bin.

melvimbe

In the 5.1 audio formats “.1” is a low frequency effects channel that carries thumps and bumps inserted by the content producer.

On playback this division can be maintained in a 5.1 speaker arrangement, but only if there is a separate subwoofer channel and speaker. If there is no separate subwoofer it is customary to mix the thumps and bumps into the front L/R. In systems with an available subwoofer, but the front speakers are too small to provide effective bass, it is customary for the playback system to remove the low bass from L/R and send it to the subwoofer along with the thumps and bumps.

 

 

Thanks for this explanation.  So there is an actual “.1” channel, but that does not mean that what you hear from your sub is only the  “.1”  audio.  And that makes absolute sense given the capabilities of various setups.

 

In terms of playback adjustments, the equipment manufacturers are caught between a rock and a hard place. One crew of listeners wants adjustments to determine exactly how the channels are divvied up with all sorts of  level, time, and equalizer adjustments. These guys (they almost always seem to be males, but I have seen a few females in this group) always think that they are better judges of “best” sound than producers and other “experts”. The other crew is fleeing from “complicated” and does not appreciate all of the adjustments. SONOS is science based and tends to cater to the “uncomplicated” group. In terms of a business model, there are legions more “uncomplicated” potential customers than “experts”.

Both crews have members who can yell very loudly in an effort to promote their view of the situation. With respect to providing secret menus for “experts” to tinker with, once the existence of these menus is discovered, these models are dumped into “complicated” bin.

 

An additional argument for ‘uncomplicated’ is that Sonos understands that potential customers may experience Sonos is in someone elses home first.  If the owner is making odd adjustments that sounds good to them and no one else, potential customer won’t be able to tell if it sounds bad because of custom adjustments or because Sonos speakers just sound bad.   Assuming potential customer is in that ‘uncomplicated’ bucket.  As an analogy, if you’re used to automatic transmission, it’s hard to tell if a manual transmission vehicle drives poorly, or if the driver isn’t very good.

I’m not saying this is official Sonos as a company’s  reasoning on the decision, just that it’s something I’ve seen mentioned before.

 

Danny
P

It appears I have alot to learn still reading these replies this is my first time away from dedicated HT setups and am used to having the ability of everything  being adjustable, and would of assumed Sonos being a mid range brand it would cater more then what the app has for the noobs to the more advanced users, but that said as stated it's been set and balanced so even grandma can use it, dont get me wrong I love the Sonos gear but things would be different next time I would go back to the more dedicated HT systems and suffer with the lack of space as nothing beats it full stop. since I've moved I was forced to down sized and just didn't have room for a proper HT anymore since having other Sonos speaker's consisting of play bar, subs,ones, fives and symfonisk being impressed with them since knew I had to down size  so I sold all my gear that paid for the arc and subs and ones, for what it is and the size, it's nothing but impressive!! The Sonos gear in my humble opinion 

 

 

   but for now having the ability change individual sub gain/volumes would be golden I believe for others also in small spaces in larger room this wouldn't be applicable, I have a small lounge room front sub is good distance 2.5m but the rear sub is about 200mm off of my lounge and every movie either I have no bass at all or just one sub and manually then the other off or have my kidneys punched in 

Also ability to turn one sub off would be golden. 

Really interesting replies guys 

 

Where's all the Sonos engineers and developers would love to here one of them chime in, c'mon guys stop lurking and chime in   

 

 

 

 

 

N
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Considering your original post, there’s not been many 2-sub owners that have echoed your desire to have these features. 
 

Sonos spends a lot of time (and therefore money) fine-tuning the sound of their speakers and systems to be as good as practical. In some ways, it’s not surprising that they don’t want users upsetting that tuning too much. 

P

That I'm surprised with, but again like you said it's all factory set so even grandma can use it fool proof virtually, no denying it wouldn't be a descent feature as not one size shoe fits all unfortunately 

Guess those with 2 subs, have had large enough rooms hasnt been a issue for them but the smaller rooms it is just unlucky for me right 

buzz

Currently, the dual SUB’s are managed as a single device. Breaking them out into separate devices would require more processing resources. Since resources are finite, it is likely that implementing this feature would inhibit implementing other future features that would have wider applicability.

N
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

That I'm surprised with, but again like you said it's all factory set so even grandma can use it fool proof virtually, no denying it wouldn't be a descent feature as not one size shoe fits all unfortunately 


I’m amazed that you didn’t know how much effort Sonos puts into getting their speakers to sound as they do. Check their website: 

 

Expertly tuned

Oscar and Grammy-winning producers, mixers and artists fine-tune the sound experience. So you don’t just hear every detail. You feel the emotion.

 

“It’s an artistic approach to sound.”

Giles Martin

Grammy-Winning Music Producer & Sonos Sound Experience Leader

 

Whilst that doesn’t provide a solution that caters for the acoustical variations of every room, what you get from the speaker/amp/enclosure of a Sonos speaker unit is a good starting point. And when you add Trueplay to the equation it’s a pretty good sound, IMHO. You could pay a lot more (and less!) for systems giving more EQ control to the user, but I’m content with what Sonos delivers at the price I paid for my speakers. 

melvimbe

...assumed Sonos being a mid range brand it would cater more then what the app has for the noobs to the more advanced users...

 

 

It’s definitely an aside and perhaps semantics, but ‘noobs’ implies that the user doesn’t know how to setup their system just yet, but intends to learn and gain the experience over time.  That isn’t Sonos customer either.   Sonos caters primarily to the customer that does not want to concern themselves with a complicated setup, whether they having the ability to set it up properly or not.     I think this pretty well evidenced by the fact that Sonos doesn’t even offer a true separate LCR  setup in their whole lineup.  You either go with a soundbar or phantom center channel via an amp.

 

I like Sonos for sure, but if I ever find myself wanting to setup a dedicated home theatre room, I’m not going to be using Sonos speakers, other than a Port as an audio source maybe.  I would not need wireless and wouldn’t be able to get everything configured the way I would want.  As it stands though, my TV is hanging above the fireplace, the room is oddly shaped with windows on one side and open area on the other.  I don’t have a good way of laying speaker wire to the right locations.  Sonos Arc with surrounds and sub is about the best I could get and the easiest to use.

 

 

 

Where's all the Sonos engineers and developers would love to here one of them chime in, c'mon guys stop lurking and chime in   

 

Probably busy engineering and developing.  Support staff has surely read this thread now and added it to a report they pass on up the chain.

Danny
P

Thanks again guys solid responses 

Nik with that been said I would of expected alittle more custom sound sure they true play but that's only applicable iPhone users which at first I found rather biased until I learnt iPhones only have a couple variants on microphones which would make it quiet troublesome for tuning have potentialy hundreds of microphone on the android variants 

 

I have used true play from my leadings all it does it adjust height, rears and sub which was done already from ear and was close enough to the mark, I can't see running individual on and off toggle in app and sub gain and I agree there has to be redundancy for future upgrades for the firmware but let's face it doesn't last long like every company the supports stops real quick not long out in the warranty has expired, I mean why else would we buy the current thing or new model right some have know to alter steal support from devices which you enjoyed now there period time is up, like airplay and play 1 and play play 5 etc etc that option was removed for those who did the latest update so you were forced to buy the next model up, sneaky and sly, unethical 

But what do you do right. The legal loop hole was exploited anyways getting way off track here I'm sure it would be such a great deal of internal resources like it would be on external resources ie the app 

 

Melvimbe 

 

That's right it's meant to be simple out of the box, wouldn't change that the simplicity is nice there is no argument there bare bare minimal cable ease of placement and sleek and elegant looks sexy none the less, although sometimes syncing is a pain I find the play ones always a issue since out of the box and old ethernet cable comes out not sure grandma has these, more the few Sonos devices might want to upgrade to far better router 

Just wished the app had a little more features for those who'd like to immerse them selves and take the experience to the next level true play only does so much that's if you have a iPhone that is, nothing that ear can't do

I thought it would of been big hit it's one extra slide bar on the app and obviously internal firmware change on the subwoofer 

 

Maybe I'm wrong maybe it doesn't need it, maybe I'm thinking out aloud and too used to the customisation of a HT and still hanging onto those days, but then again I've only heard 4 Sonos users and there's a whole world out there, have to open a twitter and Facebook account start a poll just for this, yes that's right I don't have social media life's to busy for that *stuff* and listening to political ideologies. 

 

*Moderator Note: Modified in accordance with the Community Code of Conduct.*

buzz

With respect to a model quickly becoming obsolete, a large market segment has become accustomed to a rapid cycle -- gotta have the latest. This would be typical of the phone market. In the audio market the largest segment has the “buy once, use forever” attitude unless they mostly play audio on their phone. The result is that one segment welcomes an excuse to replace their phone and the audio market resents a requirement to replace something.

P

Your right buzz the phones do have this called rapid cycles but never had one take features away yet, shhh we don't want to give ideas out lol 

 

Things have changed and I'm yet to evolve with times 

Just a damn shane they took away from the play series airplay on the last update and even though you have had it for last year's they just pluck it away and say you want it back have to by the next model I thought we recycled and reused minimise disposable in this new greener era or I guess that's just another political ideologies for nwo

 

 But that's not a subject for here at all, and getting bit off track we are from the original post 

 

Thanks 

buzz

Your right buzz the phones do have this called rapid cycles but never had one take features away yet, 

I had to recycle a perfectly functional old phone because the cell towers will no longer accept its connection.

History of AirPlay

Compatible SONOS models

melvimbe

 

Just a damn shane they took away from the play series airplay on the last update and even though you have had it for last year's they just pluck it away and say you want it back have to by the next model I thought we recycled and reused minimise disposable in this new greener era or I guess that's just another political ideologies for nwo

 

 

Huh?  Not sure what you’re saying here.  Who are ‘they’ and ‘it’?

Danny
P

Melvimbe it's in relation to Sonos removing airplay support from the older play series despite having this feature and functio. Upon purchase last update before the next gen came Sonos removed airplay so you have to buy the next gen for feature you originally paid for rather unfair and dirty tactics but I guess this is the way of life dog eat dog 

Again I feel I and we are getting of track of the original post

 

 

 

 

106rallye
Userlevel 7
Badge +17

Sonos has never removed Airplay - what they had to remove because it wasn’t functioning properly anymore was playing “from this iPhone”. This was caused by changes on Apple’s end. It also wasn’t removed from the older devices only - it was removed from all of Sonos.

See the lengthy discussion here: 

 

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