Question

Maybe add a boost to existing Sonosnet?

A
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Hi, we have a Connect wired with ethernet cable (so running Sonosnet).  We also have a Play5 (original) connected to the Sonosnet wifi.  The Play5 is on a different floor and a couple rooms away, so a pretty good distance from the Connect.

 

The Play5 (primarily used by my wife) has pretty frequent dropouts when using Spotify.  It’s been doing this for several months.  I’d like to fix this for her, as I’ve noticed that she is using the Play5 less and less because of this.

 

Scenario 1:

Do you think adding a Boost would help, located somewhere between the Connect and Play5, but not hardwired with ethernet cable?

 

Scenario 2:

I could also add a Boost and hardwire it with ethernet cable, then position it a bit closer to the Play5 (in the basement, several feet below the Play5).  In this case, I would like have a 10/100 network switch between my router and the Boost (not sure if that matters).  Of course, this would require running some ethernet cable, but is doable.  I don’t have a clean way to run cable directly to the Play5.

 

For Scenario 2, I would still want to keep my Connect hardwired.

 

Appreciate any thoughts.

 

Adam

 

 

 

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31 replies

A
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Since my last post almost 4 weeks ago, I have removed the Play5 and placed a Riva Festival in the exact location in the kitchen.  It is simply connected to wifi, as it does not have an ethernet port.

My wife has reported zero Spotify skips or dropouts with the Riva Festival in almost 4 weeks.

The Play5 had regular skips and dropouts with Spotify in about every configuration possible:

  • On Sonosnet with an ethernet hardwired Connect.
  • On Sonosnet with an ethernet hardwired Boost a few feet from the Play5.
  • Without Sonosnet connected to router’s wifi.
  • Without Sonosnet ethernet hardwired directly to my router.

I can only conclude that the Play5 (or maybe Sonos in general) has connectivity issues with Spotify, at least in our case.

If we had some type of network issue, it would show up on the Riva Festival and the other streaming devices we have throughout the house.

I’d like to be able to use the Play5, but have nothing left to try to fix the Spotify issues.  It’s a $500 doorstop at this point, as the only source my wife uses is Spotify.

A

@adam2434 You are welcome. We need to take it one step at a time. Feel free to reply here with your network topology, testing results and new diagnostic report number or call in to our agents with that information as they can do real-time testing results with you on the call.

A
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John G,

Thanks for the reply.

If we don’t get dropouts with Qobuz, we can rule-out network issues, right?

Or, are there network issues that could affect Spotify, but not Qobuz?

If we do get a dropout with Qobuz, I’ll submit a diagnostic, call Sonos, and go from there.

A

@adam2434 Thank you for the follow up and I hear where your are coming from with the troubleshooting steps taken here and with the phone agents already. Your diagnostic report is showing us more than I can gather/confirm from your case notes or steps tried here in the Community. You will want to call in for agent support. Before you do that I would recommend you follow the steps provided and let us know the results as I can add those results to your case notes for our agents. I can then follow up to you in a DM with the case number to reference.

@adam2434 Thank you for bringing your concerns to us here in the Sonos Community. I would advise that you call in for phone agent support and continue troubleshooting with them making real-time changes. I have looked at your case notes and see that we do not have your full network topology and in diagnostic reports that full re-booting has not been completed.

When calling please have your full network topology with the model names and numbers of the products that are wired or wirelessly connected on your network for any modem, router(s), extenders, access points or switches (managed or unmanaged). Your diagnostic reports indicate a possible second router and/or extenders no your network. There was also be an issue with the Ethernet wire(s) being used to wire Sonos to the network.

Lastly, before you call in please follow these steps after you have gathered your network topology:

  1. Swap out the Ethernet wire being used to connect any Sonos product to the network router and not to any access point/beacon/pod/extender.
  2. Power off/on your modem/router(s)/extender(s)/access point(s) for 30 seconds with no lights.
  3. As they are powering on then power off/on your Sonos products for 15 seconds with no lights.
  4. As they are powering on then re-boot the device(s) running the Sonos app.

When you are reconnected to your Sonos system then test the music playback for 30 minutes. You can reply here with the testing results and a new diagnostic report number. If you are still running into issues I will add our notes to your case so that they will be available to the phone agent.

 

A
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John G,

I have called Sonos multiple times over the last week.

I only have 1 router and no extender(s).

Over the past 2 weeks, I have used Sonosnet with and without a Boost, no Sonosnet with the Play5 connected to my router’s wifi, and now a direct ethernet cable from my router to the Play5.

Spotify has skips/pauses on the Play5 in every case.

Qobuz at about 3X the bitrate does not have skips/pauses on the Play5, so my network and ethernet cable are not the issue.

Also, I can use Spotify on many other non-Sonos wired and wireless devices throughout the house without issues.

This seems to be an issue with Spotify on Sonos.

A

@adam2434 Thank you for bringing your concerns to us here in the Sonos Community. I would advise that you call in for phone agent support and continue troubleshooting with them making real-time changes. I have looked at your case notes and see that we do not have your full network topology and in diagnostic reports that full re-booting has not been completed.

When calling please have your full network topology with the model names and numbers of the products that are wired or wirelessly connected on your network for any modem, router(s), extenders, access points or switches (managed or unmanaged). Your diagnostic reports indicate a possible second router and/or extenders no your network. There was also be an issue with the Ethernet wire(s) being used to wire Sonos to the network.

Lastly, before you call in please follow these steps after you have gathered your network topology:

  1. Swap out the Ethernet wire being used to connect any Sonos product to the network router and not to any access point/beacon/pod/extender.
  2. Power off/on your modem/router(s)/extender(s)/access point(s) for 30 seconds with no lights.
  3. As they are powering on then power off/on your Sonos products for 15 seconds with no lights.
  4. As they are powering on then re-boot the device(s) running the Sonos app.

When you are reconnected to your Sonos system then test the music playback for 30 minutes. You can reply here with the testing results and a new diagnostic report number. If you are still running into issues I will add our notes to your case so that they will be available to the phone agent.

A
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Still getting Spotify skips with the Play5 hardwired with ethernet cable.  Unbelievable!

I guess there are some real Spotify issues on Sonos.

 

A
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Well, said the heck with Sonosnet and wifi, and ran ethernet cable to the Play5 today.

A bit of a pain to run the cable through insulation and vapor barrier, but got it done.

I also disabled wifi on both the Connect and Play5.

I’ll return the Boost.

We may still have Spotify issues (due to Spotify), but we will at least know that the wireless signal is not the issue.  :relaxed:

 

 

A
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Still getting Spotify dropouts with a hardwired Boost within 4 feet of the Play5.

Now we are testing with Qobuz, which is FLAC at probably 3X the bitrate of Spotify.

No dropouts so far after about an hour.

If Qobuz does not result in dropouts, seems like this might have been a Spotify (not wireless) issue the whole time.

 

A
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Reporting back after some Spotify testing on the Play5 yesterday.

I went ahead and hardwired the Boost with ethernet cable and located it around 4 feet from the Play 5 (on a joist in the basement directly below where the Play5 is located in the kitchen).

Also, I had my wife use Spotify within the Sonos app, rather than using the native Spotify app with the Spotify Connect feature, as she had been doing in the past.

With these 2 changes implemented, she said that she had no Spotify dropouts over the course of about 2 hours of playback yesterday.

Because we made the 2 changes above, I’m not sure if one vs. the other had an effect.

In general, is Spotify more stable using the Sonos app rather than the native Spotify app?

Also, there were known Spotify issues on Sonos the past couple days (resolved now), so not sure if this issue resolution helped too.

A
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Ratty has been graciously helping with Boost configuration testing, but I am still having Spotify dropouts on the Play5.

Here are the 2 most recent diagnostics numbers from earlier today.

2018983548

1960744902

 

 

 

 

 

ratty

I’ll send you a PM.

A
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Well, we’re still getting Spotify dropouts on the Play5, so the Boost in its current configuration did not fix the issue.

We stream Spotify to several devices over wifi to multiple non-Sonos devices throughout the house, at opposite ends of the house from the router, so Spotify on the Play5 is the only problematic situation.

Not sure where to go from here besides testing ethernet cable to Boost or the Play5, or ditching it altogether for another speaker.  I have a Riva Festival I can try with Spotify over wifi in the same location in the kitchen.

 

 

A
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Just set up the Boost (no ethernet cable, roughly midway) and here are the matrix numbers.  The Boost to Kitchen Play5 numbers are higher than the original numbers I posted above, but not sure how significant.

I’ll next have my wife listen for and report Spotify skips over the next couple weeks (hopefully none or very infrequent.

 

A
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Actually, in the context of the Play5 on my router wifi (which is how I had it set up yesterday when I submitted diagnostics), the rep said to move my router to within 15 feet (not happening).

Then later in the call, he said to go back to Sonosnet and get a Boost and use it as a repeater with no ethernet cable connection.  He also said that without a Boost, my Connect and Play5 should be within 15 feet (also not happening).  I told him that if I add a Boost midway between the Connect and Play5, the distance to each will still be about 25 feet (obviously over 15 feet).  He did not have a reply to that.

I don’t have much faith that a midway Boost will fix the issue, but it’s painless to try.  I’ll report back next week, after I give it a try.

ratty

To put it politely, a 15 foot range is not a figure I’d remotely recognise. 

The rep could be suggesting a Boost with a view to wiring that, and running the Connect wirelessly. Boost has rather better wireless performance.

If you choose to site the Boost between the wired Connect and the Play:5 I strongly suspect it will be ignored. We can take another look at the network matrix once it’s in place. There is a trick which will force a wireless Boost to be involved as a relay. It can have some undesirable side-effects in larger systems, but these are not relevant for a two-player system. Let’s see how things go. 

A
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I tried the Play5 connected to the router wifi yesterday (no Sonosnet) and we still had some skips with Spotify.  I submitted 2 diagnostics and then called Sonos support.  The rep said the Play5 had experienced wifi signal issues and that Spotify was not the problem.  He recommended going back to Sonosnet and getting a Boost.

He made a couple other recommendations that I thought were a bit ludicrous.  He said that the distance between my router and Play5 or Connect and Play5 (Sonosnet) should be 15 feet.  My router works fine streaming HD video to devices on the second story of our house, through the floor/walls to devices that are father away and have more barriers vs. the Play5. 

When I check the router wifi strength with the WIFI Analyzer app on my phone, the signal strength at the Play5 is pegged at the highest signal signal strength on the meter (-40 dB), which is the same reading I get when my phone is near the router.

Anyway, I went ahead and ordered a Boost and will go back to Sonosnet.  I have nothing to lose giving it a try.  I’ll simply return it if it does not fix the Spotify skipping issue on the Play5.  If the Boost does not help, I’ll contemplate hard-wiring the Play5.

 

 

 

 

A
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Just checked - her BT is always off.

ratty

A Bluetooth that was simply on but not busy shouldn’t have that much effect. It might be worth asking her to turn off the BT as an experiment some time. 

A
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Ratty, I’ll check with my wife regarding Bluetooth.  I know that she would not be actively using it for anything, but it’s possible that it is always enabled on her phone (if that matters).

ratty

I can try moving the Play5 into the same room as the Connect.  If the Play5 does not have dropouts, then Sonosnet strength would seem to be the issue, right?

Well, it would suggest that something is affecting the Play:5 signal in its normal location. It could be related to signal strength owing to distance, attenuation, reflections, slow fade, etc. It could be interference, from local or more distant sources, continuous or intermittent. 

A quick thought: does your wife make use of Bluetooth when she’s listening to the Play:5? This can sometimes be aggressive towards SonosNet/WiFi.

 

If I were to use my router wifi for the Play5, I can continue to use the Connect on ethernet cable, if I disable its wifi, right?  I believe this would block Sonosnet creation.

Yes, you can do that. It’s ‘forced mixed mode’. The Connect would show WM:0 in About My System; and the Play:1 would be WM:1. 

 

A
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Ratty, thanks for the continued suggestions.

I can try moving the Play5 into the same room as the Connect.  If the Play5 does not have dropouts, then Sonosnet strength would seem to be the issue, right?

If I were to use my router wifi for the Play5, I can continue to use the Connect on ethernet cable, if I disable its wifi, right?  I believe this would block Sonosnet creation.

The other thing I’m considering is determining how much of a pain it would be to run ethernet cable to the Play5.  I can easily run cable to the general location from my basement, but then would need to fish the cable up about 4 feet in an external wall cavity with insulation I’m sure (this could be the biggest challenge), and cut a hole for an old work box in the drywall...all stuff I’ve done before for various AV projects over the years.  If the Play5 were near an interior wall, I would have already done this, as I have hard-wired every other AV component throughout the basement and first floor of our house.

ratty

Is the Spotify problem specific to Sonos integration over Sonosnet wifi?

Not if the problem is external, no. 

 

I don’t have Spotify issues using the Connect.

Interesting. What happens if you bring the Play:5 into the same room as the Connect?

 

I wonder if it would be better to connect the Play5 directly to my router wi-fi

It might be worth experimenting. Go to Settings/System/Network and enter your WiFi details. Once that’s done, simply power off the Connect or remove its Ethernet cable. Wait a few minutes for the system to sort itself out (you’ll see LEDs flashing) and then see how the Play:5 performs.

 

If you continue to struggle, submit another system diagnostic within 10 minutes or so of a dropout. The players do retain a history of wireless conditions, but their memory is relatively short.

Airgetlam

Not to step on ratty’s advice, since he knows close to infinitely more than I do about networking, for sure, but I would lean in on his suggestion that it might be wifi interference, particularly externally based to your home. And since that report is a snapshot, it may not be occurring at the moment. Could be something as innocuous as a refrigerator motor, or a neighbor doing something on their network.

But his suggestion of a Spotify issue isn’t amiss, there’s a constant level of complaints here about connections to Spotify. Although if your other devices aren’t having it that same issue, it may not lay at their feet at all.

Bruce
A
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I can try another source for diagnostic purposes, but Spotify is the only source my wife uses, so if Spotify is the problem, the problem would remain.

Is the Spotify problem specific to Sonos integration over Sonosnet wifi?

I don’t have Spotify issues using the Connect.

I wonder if it would be better to connect the Play5 directly to my router wi-fi.

 

 

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