Just curious. What's the general audiophile of Sonos speakers?
Sorry to come so late to this interesting thread.I have just purchased 2 Gen.-2 Play 5’s and the Sub,though they are not set up quite yet.
I have recently heard 2 new Play 5’s at a friend’s home.,,,,,Here is my unbiased opinion…..
I was into high end audio for decades and had friends who reviewed for the mainstream mags(Absolute Sound and Stereophile)…..
I had a dedicated audio room and a plethora of extremely pricey equip….from top tier Audio Res/Jeff Rowland/Infinity/Avalon Conrad Johnson etc…...Every time I had a personal listening session,as well as the listening sessions at my friend’s homes it would turn into a tweak/sound effects session.
“you have to hear this,but tweak the cartridge’s tracking force,or VTA,or speaker’s placement,or change tubes”...Etc…...”Can you hear that triangle in the back ground?”
It became very much about materialism/luxury equipment snobbery and I was at fault myself,for years….as well as a bundle of money!
I had been to quite a few reviewer’s homes(famous ones) whose set up was a disappointment to me.The fancy casework and chachkas (audio toys) were almost always at the forefront.Some of the tweak stuff was ridiculous and actually hurt the sound,imo.
Not to mention the space taken up(I had over 3,000 lp’s and 400 CD;s) the cables(my interconnect for the pre/amp was more than my entire Sonos set up) and the frustrating reliability issues that “always” eventually rears it’s head…..Took me 5 months to get my Rowland amp fixed and my turntable(after an expensive update) did not have the motor properly grounded,which subsequently blew up my preamp…...ARGH!
Btw…..sorry for this long winded rant,but I hope to make a point for you Sonos folks.
I sold my stuff to fund my daughter’s wedding and infuse some monies into my small business.Never has a day gone by hat I have not missed my music!
I always though that Sonos was basically for a poolside afternoon,or beach type of thing,because it never sounded very good at Best Buy,so I blew them off…..until………
Three weeks ago a friend got a pair of Play 5’s.He has a nice medium small-ish room.Similar to my new room in a new condo,since I’d sold my old home,having retired.
The sound absolutely blew me away! I am a very serious/critical listener.This was definitely sound at a very high level of reproduction.Since I have not heard much after selling my stuff,I can confidently say that it is about the equal of anything I remember 11 years ago….When I left the hobby.
To me,it sounds just so damn good that I don’t care if it’s not “Ultra High End’…...because it “is” definitely High End!
No cables/no huge expenses/no multi company repair issues/takes up little space/no worries about storing large LP/CD collections/no shelving/no line conditioners…..etc…
A “Smart Audiophiles Smart System”!
Best wishes to all,
Mark
+22
Beyond those it the rest of the line becomes more about good quality and convienience - and of course great multiroom. But for critical listening from an audiophile perspective - no they are not for that.
Some will also argue regarding Sonos not supporting Hi-Res. I personally don't see the need for hi-res. Good recordings on the Play:5 or Sonos Amp sound great....bad recordings sound well bad. I think the mastering is the most important (and I concede that they do a better job a lot of times mastering hi-res audio).
I had a fairly high end system at once with a good AMP and all B&W speakers. It is broken up now - I have retired all my older amps for Sonos Amps and my B&W speakers are running off several Sonos Amps. Excellent sound. I never have done an A/B Sonos Amp vs. old Amp setup - - but to me it certainly sounds close enough that convenience becomes the decider. I honestly don't think I have lost anything in quality (I did just get some new bi-wire cable for the one that didn't have them since I split my system in two).
Appreciate the honesty of Sonos. I have 8 Sonos units so I’m a definite Sonos fan but I also have a hi-fi system. For me audiophile means how close, natural, clear and detailed does a system sound compared to a live performance, particularly vocals and acoustic. Although I’m a Sonos fan then my dedicated Hi-FI system is in a completely different league but it is also at a completely different price point. It is not subjective. it is a night and day difference but whether that difference matters to you is entirely personal. I still use my Sonos system far more though because it is just more practical for everyday casual use . Some people are happy just listening to music from their phone, some want to move up to a Sonos system and some are into audiophile hifi . There is no right or wrong s far as I’m concerned. There is just personal preference and what you are happy and able to pay.
Even if it is defined as "expensive" there are enough people that think Sonos to be too costly as those that think it is cheap mass market.
That said, I am very surprised to hear Sonos staff deny here that Sonos make audiophile speakers.
Overall, performance measurements for wireless speakers — or any small speakers, really — rarely get better than this.
The frequency response for the Play:1 on-axis, 1 meter in front of the tweeter, is shown in the blue trace of the accompanying graph. Averaged response across a ±30 degree horizontal listening window is shown in the green trace. With a speaker frequency response measurement, you usually want the blue (on-axis) line to be as flat as possible and the green (averaged) response to be close to flat, perhaps with a mild reduction in treble response.
This performance is one that the designer of a $3,000 per pair speaker could be proud of. On-axis, it measures ±2.7 decibels. Averaged across the listening window, it's ±2.8 dB. This means that on-axis and off-axis performance are both superb and that the Play:1 should sound pretty good no matter where you place it in a room.
So, yes, they measure better than many an "audiophile" speaker. Sonos doesn't, however, target the fickle and often very silly "audiophile" market.
Few have the money in their youth for this hobby; it takes a combination of disposable income and mid life crises to get into this toys for boys thing. You may have missed the fun bits, but you also were able to not descend into the rabbit hole of that Alice in Wonderland world. And most boys outgrow the hobby.
There is a reason why so many great cartoons on audiophile foolishness are out there.
+20
Are they Audiophile speakers? No.
I think that our main USP is the integration of many music sources and connectivity. My audiophile friend thinks Sonos is great "for what it is meant to do" but the sound is coloured, no illusions there. I think the audiophile community would prefer something with a flatter frequency response and more possibility to tweak the levels. Then again, the Sonos AMP, for instance, enables you to attach speakers of your choice, so we do have a device to cater for most. I'm keen to hear what others have to say.
+15
Of course, you can always grab a Connect, feed it into a high end DAC, or just use its own DAC, then into a high end kit and I highly doubt anyone not in the audiophile magazine biz would be have any complaints or even differentiate it in a blind test.
But maybe the question might be best answered by comparing Sonos speakers and devices to the cost of a similar audio quality system minus the bells and whistles? So for example, how much would it cost to put together something sounds as good as a pair of Sonos Ones ($400)? You can probably do it for cheaper than $400, but if it comes to $300 (for example) that would mean you're getting about 3/4 audio quality and 1/4 connectivity/ease of use. How much would a soundbar equal to a Beam cost? Or playbar quality?
Looking at the Sonos Amp specifically, I actually bought one to replace an AudioSource AD3002 The wattage is about the same, similar features, main different is control and ease of use. The price difference is $600 vs $580.
Definitely an exception would be the Connect, as that's clearly much more about connectivity and ease of use that audio quality (since it has no amp and is not a speaker).
In general though, I would say that what you're buying when you get a Sonos is audio quality, with maybe 25% of the cost being connectivity and easy of use.
IMO Edward R gave the best answer without a lot of this n' that and oh...BTW. There are reasons why a set of speakers may cost $5,000 (USD) a pair (or each). Some valid and some not so. However, if you've had the opportunity to listen to a set of $5,000 speakers you know the why of the cost.
Do you have to spend $5,000 to get that audiophile sound...my answer is definitely no. Spending $998 for a set of Play 5's (in the right environment) will get the average listener into the fringes of audiophile listening. Environment is key because even spending $5,000 for a set of home speakers does not qualify them for use in a concert hall.
While most "audiophiles" will agree that a certain speaker checks all the boxes as an audiophile speaker; in the end listening is still a very personal (subjective) experience. Therefore, my question to you is..."What are you currently listening to as speakers to enjoy your favorite genre of music". Music Genre is important also; as I don't think you need a set of $5,000 speakers to enjoy "heavy metal".
If your budget will allow...you should purchase a set of Play 5's; and whatever other speakers you think sound good, and audition both in your own home. Let your ears be the judge of what is or isn't "audiophile".
Cheers!
A “Smart Audiophiles Smart System”!
One could argue that the first two words in the quote can never go together.
Seriously though, I see two reasons why Sonos isn't an audiophile system, and both have nothing to do with sound quality.
The first is that Sonos just does not look the part to be considered audiophile. Where is the necessary eye candy like backlit VU metres, thick cables, heavy cabinets with massive heat sinks, glowing valves etc.?
The second is that Sonos does not lend itself to tinkering in a way to allows it to be appealing to an equipment hobbyist - once bought and set up, there is no scope for doing anything other than listen to music.
Kumar,you are absolutely correct! My old audio friends(of which I have lost touch with,basically because I’d left the hobby/moved far and they stopped calling) would not even bother to give a Sonos set-up a serious listen.
If I wanted to play a CD for one particular friend who reviewed LP’s for T.A.S.…..a very nice guy btw,but so unwilling to give anything new a fair shake(he’s the only one I miss,because he was a real gentleman,but lives so far from me now that I’ve moved)….well since it as not analogue,but digital,he’d tell me to take it off.No interest in hearing anything new,no matter how god it may have been,because it was digitally recorded and not an analogue pressing…...my wife and I think about him and laugh every time we go to the movies and the Coke commercial plays.the one where the ice drops into the glass.….So crystal clear….but….obviously not analogue...Ha!
Anyway,I realize high end sound has changed in the last few years,but since I always look at the mainstream audio magazines,I pretty much only see insanely high prices,for “about the same equipment" as I remember having myself…..From what I heard at my Sonos friend’s home,it is a comparison similar to owning a really good TV from Aamsung,that is maybe 3-4 years old,with superb resolution…..but…..the newest TV’s have an even higher degree…..Once you have really good picture quality you just get lost in the viewing of the story,or sporting event…..You don’t think that mabe the picture would be better with the latest stuff,because it’s so good already.
That’s exactly how I felt about the Sonos sound in my pal’s house.It was so damn good already,that I was not too worried about the possibility of any higher end (crazy high priced) equipment bettering it.
I don’t care about specs,or freq extremes,or tweaking(a pain)….I only care about music!
That’s why the hi-fi snobs,who became obsessed with the materialistic aspect of the hobby as time went on, got into it in the first place.
“Music For Music’s Sake”.
If my lovely wife,who was not thrilled about how much money I’d spent on the hobby,told me to jump on a pair of Play 5’s and the Sub,it’s “good stuff”!
One thing I’ve learned after being married for a few decades is…..Women are much smarter than men!
Even if it is defined as "expensive" there are enough people that think Sonos to be too costly as those that think it is cheap mass market.
That said, I am very surprised to hear Sonos staff deny here that Sonos make audiophile speakers.
I tend to agree with Kumar’s perspective on this. What matters most are recording quality and speaker placement.
I’ve been into high end audio and equipment such as Audio Research, McIntosh, Nakamichi, Well-Tempered, Wadia, Quad, Duntech, etc for over 30 years.
Is Sonos “Class A Stereophile Recommended?” Maybe not. But compared with the majority of high end set ups, is it possible to get near-audiophile sound quality (imaging, dynamics, transients, etc) from a Sonos set up? I’d say yes.
I have a Connect driving a B&W reference system, and the sound is fantastic. And I have a set of Sonos 3s with a Sub in another, larger room, and I’d argue it is extremely close in quality.
Either way, I still plan to upgrade my main system, but for everyday music there is no substitute for the convenience - and sound - of Sonos.
Have had, and listened to a lot of expensive equipment over a long time. Sonos is far better quality for money than most. Really astonishing quality and value esp Play 5. Especially noticeable with better source quality. (everything sounds average on average/poor source material) The new Amp is really good. Would agree w dfgiles there are some exceptions - Quad and other electrostats sound quite different, but most people have not got the room to set up electrostats properly, and they sound very different from conventional speakers anyway. Even the 1s are pretty good for size and $.
Sonos has been a game changer for me. You would have to spend a LOT to get something significantly better.
+2
Once upon a time, I owned a pair of $10K speakers (Meridian DSP5200). Then I owned a pair of $5K speakers (Devialet Phantom Gold).
Then I bought a Beam. And two One SLs. And a Sub. And a Move. And a bunch of IKEA Symfonisk for lesser rooms.
Then finally I broke down and bought a pair of Play:5s.
Today I bought a second Sub.
I hope I’m done.
I’m happy.
:-)
I recently purchased the Beam and connected two ceiling mounted Klipsh speakers as well as the Sonos sub. Having a house built and this was an option so I added it. Spending some time listening it leaves me the following impression.
Connectivity, optionality and ease are superior without question. The sound is good but the versatility is the star. The Sound is contrived, put-out or manufactured. It is an excellent reproduction for the listener but is not true. Sonos seems to think more of loud and clear than a true conveyance of the work you are listening to. This is not terrible, but it feels like something is missing. There is almost a hollowness that leaves me disappointed. I felt the same way when i listened to them two years ago at Best-buy and opted not to purchase. My recent test drive also included the ARC. At a higher price tag I was equally disappointed with a “something is missing” and “it almost sounds fake” feeling.
I purchased the system anyway, primarily because it is in the main living space where it will be enjoyed by the whole family and guests…..99% of which will think it is amazing. It’s affordable, compact, versatile and convenient. For me however, when I listen to music or dive deep into a film, not to just fill my ears, but to get my groove on, I will continue to hunt for the right system which will reside in a dedicated space in the home for just that purpose.
.
+2
I am very interested to know how Play 5’s compare to the much more expensive Devialet.
Belly M above nails it regarding sound signature.
A few weeks in, I am very much at ease with the Play:5’s. That – and the Sub works miracles (as it should). Pretty much done with audiophilia now, but listening joy is through the roof.
However, none of this matters. You get the biggest bang for the buck if the speakers are great.
In my experience, a pair of play 5’s even grouped together sounds as good as or better than it sounded played back at the studio (of course live sounds better). The new play 5’s I currently have blew me away with their sound quality, and sound as good as when played back at the studio with as good or better detail. Of course, studio monitors are flat - but I prefer some DSP in my music. Note: I do have a Klipsch sub in all the rooms with the Play 5.
This is my album: deepinthemeadow.com
When we recorded the Uillean pipes on the Tank Man track, it sounded amazing live, but I was sad that I felt we could not capture the magic in the recording. That is until I heard it played back on the Play 5. Brought tears to my eyes!!! Yes, we had captured the detail, but it could only be heard on the Play 5. The Focal Kevlar speakers sound better and they also come around the $1000 price range.
The quality of sound with Sonos is so good, I sold all my old speakers - a lot of them Bose and replaced with Sonos. Even the Sonos 1 Gen 2 sounds “open”, “clear”, as compared to Bose which always has higher bass at low volumes which sort of mutes out the mids and the highs.
The connect has amazing, amazing sound quality when connected to the same speakers compared to any receiver I have heard.
I have replaced all my receivers with Sonos connect + powered speakers in every room except my “studio” room which cannot have that 70ms Wifi delay. Many people say it is overpriced - but I think Sonos has given us amazing, amazing sound quality in the Connect at a reachable price and widely available with fast shipping and we can hear the speaker at BestBuy.
Of course, things probably get even better when you go beyond $1000 for a pair or a single speaker. But let’s us not talk about the 1% of people who can afford those speakers and have $1000+ phones. Let us talk about normal, regular hardware working folks for which even $499 for a good speaker is out of reach. I needed more expensive speakers so I could test it out on different speakers and improve the final MIX - a process which takes months and listening to the same song on different speakers many times a day.
Conclusion: You got two play 5’s for $499. You paid a lot of money and you are thinking could it have gotten better If it played back high-res? It is audiophile quality?
Answer: You got more than your moneys worth. These are amazing, amazing speakers for a very decent price.
You are not missing anything paying more for better getting lower or similar priced “audiophile” equipment which does not give you the convenience of wireless music. Audiophile is pain getting all the equipment, and getting it all together to make end to end high-res. And it will always be clunky until someone can do it end to end. Most people don’t even have gigabit Ethernet at home, and CD quality music itself causes network congestion - high-res would be worse. So, overall your experience would be horrible and you will feel cheated for all the inconvenience and problems which come with high-res.
Even if I had a little more money to spend, I would probably still stick with Sonos products over say Bluesound. Sonos sells a lot of these speakers at scale, so overall better experience, more stable, longevity, etc will be with Sonos.
Thank you for Gen 2 Sonos! You guys rock!!! - and this comes from a very hard to please guy who has never felt this excited listening to music for a very, very long time! You have rocked my world!!!
Quad and other electrostats sound quite different, but most people have not got the room to set up electrostats properly, and they sound very different from conventional speakers anyway.
Not being able to ever own/listen to a well set up pair of electrostatic panels for lack of space and money is the only thing I regret after spending a decade in the audiophile hobby.
But that has nothing to do with Sonos sound quality per se, and I have no regrets in abandoning the hobby and using kit - Sonos and others - that is now excellent value thanks to modern tech/large scale manufacturing. Where audio at home is concerned, there have never been times that are as good, notwithstanding the complaints from nostalgia buffs.
For the price, they aren't bad quality at all providing that you use Trueplay tuning - although this needs access to an iDevice. Without TP they can sound poor, depending on room siting. As you say, the connectivity and ease of use is a big selling point. I would add flexibility, as by using a Connect device you can add whatever quality system you like - it will feed whatever quality 'hi-fi' system that you're prepared to pay for - so the system as a whole works for many different people - albeit mainly people who use mobile phones and stream their music.
If you like contemporary music, it can work well - and it handles many streaming services quite neatly. However, if you like classical music - and have lots of your own files - then it's becoming increasingly poor, so it might be worth looking elsewhere. I don't know where, though - I'm looking myself for a better option 😃
For the price, they aren't bad quality at all providing that you use Trueplay tuning - although this needs access to an iDevice. Without TP they can sound poor, depending on room siting. As you say, the connectivity and ease of use is a big selling point. I would add flexibility, as by using a Connect device you can add whatever quality system you like - it will feed whatever quality 'hi-fi' system that you're prepared to pay for - so the system as a whole works for many different people - albeit mainly people who use mobile phones and stream their music.
If you like contemporary music, it can work well - and it handles many streaming services quite neatly. However, if you like classical music - and have lots of your own files - then it's becoming increasingly poor, so it might be worth looking elsewhere. I don't know where, though - I'm looking myself for a better option :D
I listen mostly to classical music, and I'm satisfied with the sound quality, from the flac's I have on my NAS but also from the Apple Music content I stream. But, for my understanding, why do you make that nuance between contemporary music and classical music ? And you say you're still looking yourself. Do you mean you are looking for better hardware or for a good classical music source. I've little experience apart from Apple Music, but I read that IDAGIO is not bad.
Contemporary music usually has very simple titles, which don't take up much space. Classical music can have very long album and track titles, which also translates into tag length (if you want to know what you're playing, anyway). Consequently, although I only have about 38k tracks (mix of classical and contemporary), I now can't add any more CDs to my system, as Sonos runs out of store. I understand why this happens from a historic design point of view, but it doesn't solve the problem. I've tried Plex, but the Sonos version is so basic that it's useless.
Redesigns of the Sonos controller software have slowly worked against people with large local libraries, which makes it even more difficult to switch between queues, and also made the controller experience considerably worse on large tablets. One of my biggest gripes is the way that there's an info button on the controllers that gives further info re the track, but this doesn't include the composer, something rather important in classical music, but much less so in contemporary music. Obviously, I could include the composer in every track, but then I'd have to lose even more music due to the above restriction. It must have the composer in the system, as it's one of the indexes on local folders, but Sonos just can't be bothered to display it.
I have a working system, which I've now locked down to make sure that Sonos can't 'upgrade' the software any more, so there's no current need for me to change. However, the tech is moving very quickly, so I'm constantly on the lookout for something that will work better for me. Something that has quite a bit more capacity, that can handle the extra tag lengths, that tells me which composer I'm listening to, controllers that take advantage of the larger screen sizes of things like PCs, rather than crippling existing software - that kind of thing. Sonos is now for people who use their mobile phones for everything and stream all their content - which is not me...
I'm not really that interested in streaming, but have just tried out a Google Chromecast Audio into my Play 5 in order to replace the streaming capability that I lost by locking the Sonos system down completely. Trying to get that working was a joke compared to using a Sonos, and highlighted just how good Sonos can be to use.
Once upon a time, I owned a pair of $10K speakers (Meridian DSP5200). Then I owned a pair of $5K speakers (Devialet Phantom Gold).
Then I bought a Beam. And two One SLs. And a Sub. And a Move. And a bunch of IKEA Symfonisk for lesser rooms.
Then finally I broke down and bought a pair of Play:5s.
Today I bought a second Sub.
I hope I’m done.
I’m happy.
:-)
I am very interested to know how Play 5’s compare to the much more expensive Devialet.
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