Do not buy from Sonos

  • 8 February 2020
  • 61 replies
  • 2286 views

Userlevel 2
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I urge you to not buy anything from Sonos until they sort out their end of life procedures.

I have spent well over £5000 pounds with them in the last four years.

I was informed by email by them that two of my devices costing £800 would be obsolete in May and would no longer work with the rest of my devices.

Stay away until and if they sort out their problems.


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61 replies

Userlevel 7
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I’ve been with Sonos from about the beginning and I have to say I’m pretty happy over-all in the way we have been treated. I never expected my 2006 ZPs to still be working in 2020 and beyond, figured they like any other computerized device I owned back then and if I got five good years it was good.

I never made the error of comparing my Sonos to my conventional speakers or even my dumb stereo gear, they are just too different.

Looking back at 2006, my Sonos gear was the last surviving equipment, TVs, computers, Smart AV gear, and a bunch of other electronic devices went out the door while the Sonos just kept plugging along. The old Sonos didn’t get replaced for being obsolete either, it got replaced because the newer Sonos gear was so good I couldn’t resist the trade-up deal.

Nobody in practice is going to have to replace all their Sonos gear every five years, or anything like it.  We don’t need analogies to say that.  You don’t even need to replace any of your gear now.

 

The part of your point that Sonos may be able to keep updates going longer than 5 years because of increased RAM in newer devices still stands, but it still doesn’t guarantee anything.

 

I never mentioned anything about a guarantee.  I just wanted to bring a little common sense into a thread citing a promised minimum as a hard maximum.  

You are making factually incorrect statements. The same incorrect statements that have been made countless times on this forum. It is past the point where it is worth contradicting these statements for the umpteenth time.

Do as you wish, of course, but I shall continue to enjoy my Sonos system as I have done for the last 9 years.

Userlevel 5
Badge +4

You are making factually incorrect statements. The same incorrect statements that have been made countless times on this forum. It is past the point where it is worth contradicting these statements for the umpteenth time.

Do as you wish, of course, but I shall continue to enjoy my Sonos system as I have done for the last 9 years.

 

Most of what he said the absolutely correct. If you rely on streaming music services, you very well may have obsolete devices come May because Sonos has stated they won’t update software to keep up with them after may. For me, this would definitely make my devices obsolete. For others that mostly stream their own music from a local server, maybe not. Sonos specifically stated that these services would deprecate after May. Their “clarifications” have not contradicted this. They have only not reaffirmed it, which is quite a bit different.

 

The part about Legacy devices not working with the rest of his system is partially correct. As it stands now (Sonos does not have any solutions worked out, only potential solutions), people will either have to split their systems into two losing the ability to group legacy and non-legacy devices, or they can keep non-legacy devices on the same firmware version as the Legacy devices and not receive updates (and also deprecate their ability to play streaming music services).

 

I’d go as far as to say that your post is far more misleading than his. Your post implies that things are going to continue working as they have and that all his concerns are not true. This is simply not the case. I wish it were.

 

Since support is only guaranteed for 5 years, I don’t think I can recommend Sonos anymore either (I have previously to dozens of people) for anyone who is interested in whole home/office audio. Paying $15k -$20k every 5 years just isn’t a good ROI in my opinion.

I’m not sure why people keep making statements that reflect what they want to be true as if they were the truth. The only information we have is that Sonos will only commit to updates for 5 years from when a device is last manufactured. 

 

No, that is not the only information we have.  We also have the fact that Sonos supported some units for over 15 years from launch and over a decade from last manufacture.  We also know that all current legacy devices have the same 32 MB of RAM and storage, meaning that particular configuration was good for over 15 years of service.  In addition, we know all current Sonos devices have 16 to 32 times that in RAM and storage.  Therefore, while 5 years is what they have to state in some jurisdictions, the capability for far more years of support is there, and Sonos seems to have built that capability into currently sold products to the tune of 16 to 32 times the resources of the just now made legacy units.

Make of that what you will, but that is far more information than “Sonos will only commit to updates for 5 years from when a device is last manufactured”.  

Nobody in practice is going to have to replace all their Sonos gear every five years, or anything like it.  We don’t need analogies to say that.  You don’t even need to replace any of your gear now.

I’m not sure why people keep making statements that reflect what they want to be true as if they were the truth.

 

 

Ok, yes, it’s possible that someone could happen to buy all the wrong speakers at all the wrong time for various reasons.  But is that a highly likely scenario?  No, not really.

 

The only information we have is that Sonos will only commit to updates for 5 years from when a device is last manufactured.

 

 

How does that guarantee match up with Sonos competitors?  I honestly don’t know.

 

Sonos devices may be sold through authorized retailers beyond this period of time for quite some time (as has happened to many people on these forums who have only owned their devices for a few years and will have legacy devices come May).

 

 

Yes, and consumers should take advice that buying products that have stopped production will have a shorter life.  And Sonos needs to make sure they clearly mark hardware changes in their products.  A mistake I think they have learned.  And again, this only apples to some of the legacy products, since most stop production longer than 5 years ago.

 

We don’t know how often streaming music services get interrupted by code changes requiring Sonos to make updates in response.

 

 

We don’t know, but we have an idea of the probability.

 

So, while you and I would both like to think that these features will continue to work for a long period outside of the 5 years, neither one of us has any guarantee that this will be the case. So, in practice, we all very well may need to replace all of our gear every 5 years if we want our devices to continue to work with services like Pandora, Spotify, Tidal, Deezer, etc. Maybe it will be longer. I’m not sure where I’d be satisfied personally. I think 10 years would do it, but that's probably a little too unrealistic/ambitious.

It’s matter of probability.    Yes, it is possible that I could buy a Sonos Beam today, it gets discontinued tomorrow, Sonos ends updates 5 years from now, and a streaming service changes it’s coding in 5 years plus a day….but that’s extremely unlikely.  Even going with an older product, like the playbar, the odds are that it will go much longer than 5 years,  Production may end soon, but it has signficantly more memory than the current legacy products.

 

But these products will not last forever, and not as long as ‘dumb’ traditional speakers.  If that’s more what you’re looking for then that is what you should be getting.

 

None of the information you provided makes your statements any more true. You are making at best educated guesses based on this information and thus your should state your opinion as such, not as a statement of fact. I have no problem with your opinion. It very well may come to pass as being correct, but we have no statements from Sonos that it will be. Not all current devices have 16-32 times the RAM and storage of the legacy devices. Some only have double the memory.

 

Yet it is information, something you claimed we didn’t have, and I never claimed my statements to be true. However, I did back up my statements with facts, facts you willfully chose to ignore, citing only those that paint Sonos in a bad light.  Sorry, I'm not so quick to wield that brush in the face of other, just as relevant evidence.

And yes, the Sub is an older product that has 64 MB.  The Sub is a special case (not really a smart speaker, only plays a single stream from a master device).  A couple others only have 4 to 8 times.  My mistake.   Still multiple times the legacy 32 MB that sustained some devices for 15+ years, so my point stands.

‘Nobody in practice is going to have to replace all their Sonos gear every five years, or anything like it’

I made that statement and stand by it.  For this to happen to anyone, they would have to buy their speakers on the last day of sale of each type they had, and Sonos would have to support the speakers for the absolute minimum they have guaranteed.  And then repeat the trick every five years.  Yes that is theoretically possible but I said that in practice it won’t happen.  This idea that people can only expect five years use from purchase is utter rubbish.  People peddling that nonsense are ignoring the nature of the promise (from discontinued sale of the product type), the fact that it is a minimum guarantee that Sonos hope to exceed, and the huge increase in memory in most current products compared with the products shortly becoming legacy.

I don’t take back a word.

Edit: and the fact that even after updates stop the speakers are still usable.

 

The part of your point that Sonos may be able to keep updates going longer than 5 years because of increased RAM in newer devices still stands, but it still doesn’t guarantee anything.

 

I never mentioned anything about a guarantee.  I just wanted to bring a little common sense into a thread citing a promised minimum as a hard maximum.  

And a maximum from product discontinuance, not date of sale.  I am already guaranteed at least 9 years use out of the P:5s I bought 4 years ago. And I expect much more.

In practice, it certainly could happen. Maybe you mean in all probability? That’s up for debate and at least suggests that what you are saying isn’t a certainty, which it isn’t.

 

Since you are being pedantic,  I'll play that game.  You are most certainly not guaranteed only "5 years of streaming".  For one, Sonos is never going to bring out a new product and then discontinue it the next day.  Therefore, if you buy on the day of release (or any other day before cease of manufacture), you are guaranteed more than 5 years.  Second, legacy products can still stream, and will do so after the 5 year mark in May.  So again, more than 5 years. 

Matter of fact, the only way you are guaranteed only 5 years is if you buy on the day it is discontinued and the streaming services change their protocols that same day.  In short, you are guaranteed more than 5 years for the vast majority of Sonos purchases, with the exceptions being improbable in the extreme.

They have consistently said that you will be able to use legacy and modern devices together, but only in a 'legacy system'.. 

You are spreading falsehoods in stating that the devices cannot work together.

Jeez, why am I bothering? 

Will I still be able to use my legacy products after May?

Yes, you will be able to continue using legacy products after they stop receiving software updates. However, some functionality will be impacted over time.

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

 

What do I need to do if I have legacy products in my system?

You don’t need to take any action now, but you have options for what to do when your legacy products stop receiving updates. You can:

  • Trade up your legacy products and save 30% on modern Sonos products through our Trade Up program.
     
  • Leave your system as is and stop receiving software updates in May 2020. Your Sonos system will work as it does currently, though over time functionality of features and services will be impacted.

https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4786?language=en

There was an implication that if you contined to use Gen1 with Gen 2 products quaility would be comprimised 

 

Not even implicated, it was explicitly stated.  In order to keep legacy and modern devices on the same system, you would need to run legacy software on all devices.  Which is logical.   In a system where devices interact so closely, the lowest common denominator determines what the system can do.  

Sure they could. Just as they are able to regulate prices (like apple, Bose, etc) that retailers sell their products for with agreements, they could do the same with selling outdated products. They certainly could require old inventory to be returned.

 

Since neither one of us know the agreements between supplier and retailer, let’s drop this discussion, lest the speculation get out of hand.  Sonos is no longer manufacturing, shipping and/or selling Connects or Connect:Amps.  Period. 

 

 

 

 

Deleted.  Enough is enough 

Userlevel 2
Badge +1

Look at some previous posts. I have copied and pasted an email from Patrick (CEO). They do not know if they can maintain four year old Amps with new equipment on the same system.   Direct from the CEO. Technical support and sales teams have told me the same thing.

Bury your head in sand if you like. 

 

Sonos and their surrogates are trying hard to frame the split systems or giving up updates on new players as no big deal.

The fact that they can't provide actual details about the obsoleting of players until May does not inspire confidence in me to buy. 

 

Fine. You are entitled to your opinion and of course not to buy more Sonos if that is your preference. But statements that are completely incorrect, as in the original post, don't help the discussion. 

[...] And as mentioned, the team is going to try and provide bug fixes in the future for legacy devices, as the hardware permits.

https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-support-clarifications-6835969/index135.html#post16403824

 

Repeating the very same over and over again is tedious.

The trade up offer isn’t going to expire. You can trade-in your legacy when the experience with your favorite music service starts to deprecate. This may happen in December 2020 or in five years time. And who knows whether your favorite service will still be around 24 months from now. Since 2013, I have seen many music services come and go on Sonos; about two-thirds of them went bankrupt and vanished into oblivion.

If you are a Spotify user, make sure your Sonos system is already running the most recent firmware v10.6.1, and you’re set for the time being.

How is it a misrepresentation that if you rely on streaming music services and this deprecates after 5 years, you will need to “re-invest” to continue to make it work with streaming music services. You are purposely misleading potential readers. If Sonos continues with their current stance and does not provide updates for this, you won’t be enjoying your system if you use these (Pandora, Spotify, etc). See you in May?

 

The situation you’re describing is highly unlikely.  First off, Sonos has promised regular updates for 5 years after a product is discontinued.  Based on Sonos history, the majority of Sonos products have been supported much longer than that.  In terms of buying a new Sonos, the majority of products are new releases over the past couple years, and it is very likely they will not be discontinued any time soon.  Even the older products that are still for sale have twice the memory of legacy products.  Personally, I think it’s logical to avoid the playbar because a better replacement could be coming soon, not because the playbar is likely to lose updates any time soon.

 

Regarding what bug fixes means, we do not know how extensive a change Sonos will willing to do, nor whether the hardware could handle it.  But these sort of changes are rare.   I do think that if Pandora makes a change to their service, they will likely try to make the change within the existing API (and other services APIs).  Where that can't be done, they will surely give Sonos a few months notice before the change so Sonos has time to develop and test.  That means that the chance that a streaming service becomes unavailable on Sonos legacy soon after May very unlikely.

 

For customers that have a significant (whatever they think that is)  investment in legacy products, it makes a lot of sense to wait till May, and probably several months after, before buying another speaker.  It’s highly unlikely that anything will happen to your system and you’ll likely know what changes Sonos has made in modern systems, and perhaps new products.  You can then use the trade in program to replace legacy products or get something different.  

 

 

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I’ve been with Sonos from about the beginning and I have to say I’m pretty happy over-all in the way we have been treated. I never expected my 2006 ZPs to still be working in 2020 and beyond, figured they like any other computerized device I owned back then and if I got five good years it was good.

I never made the error of comparing my Sonos to my conventional speakers or even my dumb stereo gear, they are just too different.

Looking back at 2006, my Sonos gear was the last surviving equipment, TVs, computers, Smart AV gear, and a bunch of other electronic devices went out the door while the Sonos just kept plugging along. The old Sonos didn’t get replaced for being obsolete either, it got replaced because the newer Sonos gear was so good I couldn’t resist the trade-up deal.

I cannot even count how many $1000+ phones I have purchased since 2006.  You dont dont see people fuming over Apple disco'ing devices; they just buy new ones.  Apple has a trade up program just like Sonos for this very reason.  It is a closed ecosystem.

My software company has a mobile app that is constantly evolving.  We support current versions of Android and iOS, plus 2 older.  This means that your phone has to be able to support 2 year old software.  Generally this means that the hardware is no more than 5-7 years old.  This is standard practice in the IoT age.  The fact that Sonos has continued on this long and can continue to provide updates to very old devices is actually a testament to the brand.  Every smart device dies.  If you want speakers that never will, then dont buy Sonos or any other smart speaker... And move on.

Similarly, if you simply cannot give access to Location Services to allow your smart devices to configure themselves, then buy dumb devices and a tighter tinfoil hat.

New tech is coming out all the time.  A few years back they killed off CDMA where I live.  So everyone rolling around with an archaic flip phone had to get with the times or not be on cellular.  It happens...  **** evolves.

You are buying an internet connected, smart assistant powered, streaming service embedded, whole home audio product.  That is arguably the best there is.  If you want to stick with the Golden Age, then get a NAS and unplug yourself from the internet.  Otherwise, embrace technology and how it changes and keep your expectations in check.

 

 

Userlevel 4
Badge +1

I’ve been with Sonos from about the beginning and I have to say I’m pretty happy over-all in the way we have been treated. I never expected my 2006 ZPs to still be working in 2020 and beyond, figured they like any other computerized device I owned back then and if I got five good years it was good.

I never made the error of comparing my Sonos to my conventional speakers or even my dumb stereo gear, they are just too different.

Looking back at 2006, my Sonos gear was the last surviving equipment, TVs, computers, Smart AV gear, and a bunch of other electronic devices went out the door while the Sonos just kept plugging along. The old Sonos didn’t get replaced for being obsolete either, it got replaced because the newer Sonos gear was so good I couldn’t resist the trade-up deal.

I cannot even count how many $1000+ phones I have purchased since 2006.  You dont dont see people fuming over Apple disco'ing devices; they just buy new ones.  Apple doesnt even have a trade up program.

My company has a mobike app that is constantly evolving.  We support current versions of Android and iOS, us 2 older.  This means that your phone has to be able to support 2 year old software.  Generally this means that the hardware is no more than 5-7 years old.  This is standard practice in the IoT age.  The fact that Sonos has continued on this long and can continue to provide updates to very old devices is actually a testament to the brand.  Every snart device dies.  If you want speakers that never will, then dont buy Sonos or any other smart speaker... And move on.

Similarly, if you simply cannot give access to Location Services to allow your smart devices to configure themselves, then buy dumb devices and a tighter tinfoil hat.

New tech is coming out all the time.  A few years back they killed off CDMA where I live.  So everyone rolling around with an archaic flip phone had to get with the times or not be on cellular.  It happens...  **** evolves.

You are buying an internet connected, smart assistant powered, streaming service embedded, whole home audio product.  That is arguably the best there is.  If you want to stick with the Golden Age, then get a NAS and unplug yourself from the internet.  Otherwise, embrace technology and how it changes and keep your expectations in check.

 

 

So much wrong with this post. I'll just do the simple one..

https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in

Badge

I’ve been with Sonos from about the beginning and I have to say I’m pretty happy over-all in the way we have been treated. I never expected my 2006 ZPs to still be working in 2020 and beyond, figured they like any other computerized device I owned back then and if I got five good years it was good.

I never made the error of comparing my Sonos to my conventional speakers or even my dumb stereo gear, they are just too different.

Looking back at 2006, my Sonos gear was the last surviving equipment, TVs, computers, Smart AV gear, and a bunch of other electronic devices went out the door while the Sonos just kept plugging along. The old Sonos didn’t get replaced for being obsolete either, it got replaced because the newer Sonos gear was so good I couldn’t resist the trade-up deal.

I cannot even count how many $1000+ phones I have purchased since 2006.  You dont dont see people fuming over Apple disco'ing devices; they just buy new ones.  Apple doesnt even have a trade up program.

My company has a mobike app that is constantly evolving.  We support current versions of Android and iOS, us 2 older.  This means that your phone has to be able to support 2 year old software.  Generally this means that the hardware is no more than 5-7 years old.  This is standard practice in the IoT age.  The fact that Sonos has continued on this long and can continue to provide updates to very old devices is actually a testament to the brand.  Every snart device dies.  If you want speakers that never will, then dont buy Sonos or any other smart speaker... And move on.

Similarly, if you simply cannot give access to Location Services to allow your smart devices to configure themselves, then buy dumb devices and a tighter tinfoil hat.

New tech is coming out all the time.  A few years back they killed off CDMA where I live.  So everyone rolling around with an archaic flip phone had to get with the times or not be on cellular.  It happens...  **** evolves.

You are buying an internet connected, smart assistant powered, streaming service embedded, whole home audio product.  That is arguably the best there is.  If you want to stick with the Golden Age, then get a NAS and unplug yourself from the internet.  Otherwise, embrace technology and how it changes and keep your expectations in check.

 

 

So much wrong with this post. I'll just do the simple one..

https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in

I meant Android and/or Samsung.  Post fixed.

Sonos has said they will do some maintenance updates but have not defined what that means or for how long so definitely agree.


Sooner or later Services like Spotify will not work anymore which renders my devices useless.

I´m very disappointed about this decision because it´s just a matter of time until all my sonos products like play 1 or play 3 will stop working. In my point of view this will render sonos out of business soon.