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anybody replaced their Connect with a Port?

F
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  • Finbow
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Hi,  begrudgingly having to replace my connect as the connect is the beginning of my mesh network & I will not be able to separate my system.

Any forum members picked up a Port to replace their connect? 
I am running my current Connect through an Arcam Rdac into a classic NAD 3020.

Any one experienced a degradation in sound quality using the Port?

The recent ‘What Hifi’ review has made this potential  purchase even more of a quandary.

Didn't fancy shelling out the £279 before. The fact that this might actually be an inferior product to the connect makes me doubt it even more.

i don’t want to get into a ‘bun fight’ about DACs & ‘subjectivity’ only want to hear from people who have actually upgraded please 

Any input greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

 

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Best answer by Finbow 27 March 2020, 18:38

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109 replies

ratty

Boy, am I glad I quit focusing solely on the equipment some years ago, and started listening to the music. 

T
Userlevel 3
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Whatever the views Sonos Community is a wealth of useful information. 

Just tried some subjective testing of Connect Gen 2 from optical digital out through an Audiolab 8300 CDQ CDplayer/DAC to Sennheiser HD800S headphones.

The variable output from the Sonos Connect sounds absolutely fine on my Sonos system but awful on the HD00S.  But switching to fixed output I didn’t notice any difference between playing the CD directly and playing a ripped ALAC file version of the CD through the Sonos fixed digital optical output and DAC on the CD player. The Apple music AAC version source file through the Sonos Connect fixed digital optical output sounded only marginally worse and wouldn’t put much money on a blind test. 

The headphones on the other hand sounded dramatically better than than the rest of my speakers and headphones.    

Does seem that they haven’t got the Port right just yet. Basically if using for hifi purposes you don’t want a DAC as you will likely already have one. You just want an undistorted unprocessed fixed output with coxial and digiital outputs so you can connect to your other system inputs as you want and the ability to play hi res file formats not because they sound better but so you can actually play them i.e. just the same basic functionality as pretty much everything else out there on the market. Currently there is absolutely no reason to switch from Connect Gen 2 to Port other than the better look and Airplay if you use Apple and there is no reason to chose a Port over other streamers on the market unless you are tied to the Sonos system   I’ve no doubt Sonos has the ability to get it right but at the moment as a hifi streamer connection the Port is not convincing. 

D
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Hi Patrick I made the same mistake too. I totally agree that the Port sounds far inferior compared to the Connect played through my Rega Dac, poor timing, dynamics and richness of sound being my main criticisms. I consider that the very poor quality remote power supply to the Port is the main culprit. At the present time my Boost and Connect have been rendered useless by the S2 upgrade. Sonos support, after several hours chat this morning have not yet come up with a solution to reinstate my  original Boost and Connect system. I’m presently taking time out to consider my next move.  However, this may be the incentive I need to go for something far better. I’ve been with Sonos since their inception, they don’t require clients like us anymore.

 

 

 

pwt
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I don’t intend to be the last word in this thread, but I thought I would report that I decided to go ahead and get the Port with the 30% off.  Before upgrading to S2, I grouped the Port (through coax) and the Connect gen 1 (through optical).  When toggling between the 2, the music sounds identical.

I concur. I received a Port today, and its audio quality is indistinguishable from the Connect it replaces when using their respective digital outputs, as expected.

(Already missing the front panel controls, however.)

4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
ratty

I think that unless you had matched the levels with an instrument to better than 0.2dB the test is not that useful. Even with that small difference, which would be imperceptible, a human will typically subconsciously prefer the louder signal.

P
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I don’t intend to be the last word in this thread, but I thought I would report that I decided to go ahead and get the Port with the 30% off.  Before upgrading to S2, I grouped the Port (through coax) and the Connect gen 1 (through optical).  When toggling between the 2, the music sounds identical.

F
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Hi All, First time poster here.  I too bought a Port to replace a Connect, which I felt compelled to do to keep my system up to date, as many others have.  I have read the What Hifi and Tech Hive reviews. When I received my Port, I hooked it up, and it did not sound great to me - compressed, less separation of instruments, bass not as deep, treble not as crisp. I read many posts here and began to wonder - is it me, or is it the actually the Port, so I set to find out.

I hooked up the Port and Connect at the same time via Coax to my Marantz SR7012 AVR and both were on fixed volume. I chose 4 songs  I am very familiar with to play: Steely Dan - Aja -Home At Last (MFSL), Elton John - Tumbleweed Connection - Ballad of a Well Known Gun (MFSL), Elton John Captain Fantastic - Captain Fantastic, Stevie Wonder - Innervisions- Don’t You Worry bout a Thing.  My Speakers are B&W CM9’s with CM Centre 2 S2 and ASW 600 Sub and B&W Surrounds. My Preferred Listening Mode is Auro 2D Surround.

I played each song, and had my Son choose the source 8 different times while each song was playing. Sometimes he switched the source, sometimes he didn’t, but there was a brief “break” between each switch request (he would choose a non source to break the sound, and then choose either the Port or Connect after that) so I could not tell which he was choosing. I then wrote down for each trial which source,  Connect or Port, I thought I was listening to, for each song. He kept track of which source he chose each time, and we compared notes at the end of each song.

I was able to guess the source correctly 72% of the time (23 out of 32 times). My scores for each song were 75% - 62% - 62% - 87% repsectively (not sure if that says something about Elton John : ))

My conclusion is that this is statically significant to me, and more often than not, I can tell the difference between the Port and Connect. So, am i disappointed? yeah, a bit. Am I going to return my Port - I’m not really sure - I am choosing between staying up to date vs. better sound from my Sonos streamer. I will probably end up keeping the Port and using it for more casual listening, and use other sources for more critical listening. And, hope for a Port update that will improve the sound.

The one thing I feel strongly about is that Sonos should at least acknowledge that their could be an issue with the Port sound, and to address it in some way with the community. There have been enough post and articles about the subject that not addressing it only hurts Sonos’ reputation (and I am a big fan and own many products) and possibly hurts further sales of the Port.

Thanks for listening.

 

Do what I did. Order a Gen 2 connect from Richer Sounds. Only £199 & then the best of both worlds great sound of Connect & runs S2. I couldn’t be happier! 

ratty

The 85% volume thing was just a rough guideline. When I passed a Full Scale single-frequency test through the Port, with flat EQ, I noticed soft limiting effects just beginning to appear when volume was above that level. If I’d applied positive EQ the limiting would presumably have begun a bit earlier. Note that this was an entirely artificial test; with real music a tiny bit of odd-harmonic distortion for very brief periods should pass unnoticed. I did say “extreme circumstances”...

Decently recorded music shouldn’t hit Full Scale that often anyway, though the infamous ‘Loudness Wars’ have unfortunately conspired to compress modern music into the upper reaches of the available dynamic range.

I suggest you simply set things up as you have with the Connect and see how things go. Above all, remember to listen to the music, not the equipment. :wink:

 

F
Userlevel 2
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What audiophile uses an external DAC with the variable volume setting?

I have to say, your tone is very antagonistic. I am not & have never claimed to be an audiophile. I simply stated that the Port sounded more compressed & less dynamic than my old connect whilst using variable output. As I’d paid £280 to ‘upgrade’ this bit of kit I was suitably miffed! Now as it turns out I was completely correct & the sound is being ‘managed’ more aggressively via the digital out. Something that only a few posts ago you were saying was not possible.

J

Hi All,

Just wanted to update - I took Finbow’s advice, I returned my Port to Sonos, and was able to purchase a brand new factory sealed Generation 2 Connect. I found it online at World Wide Stereo in PA. There are also some brand new ones as well as used Generation 2 Connects on Ebay (just be sure they are Gen 2 before purchase). I will report back once I hook it up, but I feel much better about this plan of action, so thanks so much for the advice!

ratty

Hi Patrick I made the same mistake too. I totally agree that the Port sounds far inferior compared to the Connect played through my Rega Dac, poor timing, dynamics and richness of sound being my main criticisms. I consider that the very poor quality remote power supply to the Port is the main culprit. 

I rather doubt that the power supply has much, if anything, to do with it. It’s been reliably reported that when the digital out is in Variable Volume mode the Port applies more limiting and/or dynamic range compression than Connect, ostensibly to protect the S/PDIF from clipping. 

For example, see https://www.techhive.com/article/3546333/sonos-port-review.html

F
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Absolutely no doubt about it. The connect sounds significantly better than the Port via Digital out. Instrument separation is nowhere near as defined the soundstage is much narrower & overall sound seems less dynamic as a result. Had both set to fixed volume & difference is obvious. The sound is definitely more compressed somehow coming from the Port. Is it possible it’s being ‘throttled’ somehow? Will they ‘open it up’ with S2 in June? Or is it possibly just cheaper parts? The external build quality seems lacking compared to Connect. 

jgatie

Confirmation bias?  It's a known and proven effect in audio listening, and observations like your last sentence certainly can trigger it.  You can't be truly sure unless you can do a level matched blind test.

J

Hi All, First time poster here.  I too bought a Port to replace a Connect, which I felt compelled to do to keep my system up to date, as many others have.  I have read the What Hifi and Tech Hive reviews. When I received my Port, I hooked it up, and it did not sound great to me - compressed, less separation of instruments, bass not as deep, treble not as crisp. I read many posts here and began to wonder - is it me, or is it the actually the Port, so I set to find out.

I hooked up the Port and Connect at the same time via Coax to my Marantz SR7012 AVR and both were on fixed volume. I chose 4 songs  I am very familiar with to play: Steely Dan - Aja -Home At Last (MFSL), Elton John - Tumbleweed Connection - Ballad of a Well Known Gun (MFSL), Elton John Captain Fantastic - Captain Fantastic, Stevie Wonder - Innervisions- Don’t You Worry bout a Thing.  My Speakers are B&W CM9’s with CM Centre 2 S2 and ASW 600 Sub and B&W Surrounds. My Preferred Listening Mode is Auro 2D Surround.

I played each song, and had my Son choose the source 8 different times while each song was playing. Sometimes he switched the source, sometimes he didn’t, but there was a brief “break” between each switch request (he would choose a non source to break the sound, and then choose either the Port or Connect after that) so I could not tell which he was choosing. I then wrote down for each trial which source,  Connect or Port, I thought I was listening to, for each song. He kept track of which source he chose each time, and we compared notes at the end of each song.

I was able to guess the source correctly 72% of the time (23 out of 32 times). My scores for each song were 75% - 62% - 62% - 87% repsectively (not sure if that says something about Elton John : ))

My conclusion is that this is statically significant to me, and more often than not, I can tell the difference between the Port and Connect. So, am i disappointed? yeah, a bit. Am I going to return my Port - I’m not really sure - I am choosing between staying up to date vs. better sound from my Sonos streamer. I will probably end up keeping the Port and using it for more casual listening, and use other sources for more critical listening. And, hope for a Port update that will improve the sound.

The one thing I feel strongly about is that Sonos should at least acknowledge that their could be an issue with the Port sound, and to address it in some way with the community. There have been enough post and articles about the subject that not addressing it only hurts Sonos’ reputation (and I am a big fan and own many products) and possibly hurts further sales of the Port.

Thanks for listening.

 

jgatie

No idea. The issue must be the coax output of the Port then. The Port is putting out a much more ‘compressed’ sound somehow. It’s just a ‘lifeless’ representation. The Connect has a more ‘real’ & ‘live feel to it. A great example is it’s harder to hear the difference between a Digital radio stream & music streamed from Apple Music on the Port. You can easily tell the difference on the Connect.  Either way. Not my problem now. I am not the first to report this issue & I’m pretty sure sure I won’t be the last.  Thankfully Sonos has a fantastic returns policy. 

 

Far more likely it is expectation bias that would disappear under proper ABX testing.  

D
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The $2 Port power supplies can backwards infiltrate the mains supply with electrical noise. A mid price low voltage linear power supply will cost 100% over the Port. I’ve gone to some lengths in getting best possible fidelity from my Connect, proportionate to it’s cost. I have achieved this by using an MCRU mains lead into a six way Iso-Tex mains block, connected with an even a higher grade MCRU cable to a new noise filtered un-switched power socket outlet. All-in cost for this, taking 1/6 of the cost for the shared six-way mains block and MCRU final connection cable and the full the cost of MCRU mains cable to the Connect is around £200, (lower than to upgrade the Port). The end result has been outstanding, the Port simply isn't in the same league. Said enough now to rattle the usual cages.

 

 

 

G
Userlevel 3
Badge +5

Well, bare with me! Think I’m going to have to start a new thread called ‘ Sonos Port an apology!’.

Had to send back the Connect I bought from eBay as it was faulty. Hadn’t sent back the Port yet so dug it out for one last try. It updated when I plugged it in & now it sounds wonderful! Don’t know if, it was confirmation bias all along or whether simply rebooting the device triggered something but I am now 100% happy with the Port! 

What Hifi are talking out of their backsides!!

Cheers for all of your help,

 

I would just say that when I got my Port, the sound was not overwhelmingly good, it did not play neutrally, but with one, let's call it “studio monitor” sound.
After many reboots of the Port, it was as if it suddenly loaded a completely different and very good and natural sounding sound signature.
Therefore I am now very happy with the sound in my Port, but I have the feeling that the DSP processor that sits inside the Port can be sound-adjusted.
And I think that, when I received the Port it was playing with the DSP processors default settings.

But the many reboots then suddenly loaded the correct natural audio signature into the Port.
 

I would just point out that what I experienced was via the analog output.

And that it's been months since I experienced this and that my Port has been playing fine ever since.

F
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I also wrote to the CEO a few months back to tell him how disappointed I was with the Port! As follows……

Hi Patrick,

I hope you & your family are well? 

I have been a Sonos user for a few years & have recommended your products to many.
I use a connect on my main Hi-Fi & have Ones & Play Ones through the rest of the house.
I like many others have legacy products as part of my set up. 
I recently ordered the Port as an upgrade to my now legacy connect. I wasn’t massively happy about having to do this in order to keep up to date but appreciate that technology moves on.
What I wasn’t prepared for was the downgrade in audio quality when using the digital out on the Port compared to my Connect. 
The sound is much more compressed & ‘reigned in’ when fed through my DAC. The soundstage & instrument separation aren’t nearly as good. 
I’m going to have to return the Port & carry on using my Connect which now means I must split my system or carry on with the old App. Neither of which I want to do.
Why would the Digital signal be worse in the new product? I want to upgrade but the new product needs to be an ‘upgrade’ in order for me to feel comfortable handing over my hard earned cash.
Appreciate this is really one for your engineers & R&D team but just wanted to share my disappointment in this product with you first hand. 

Kind regards,

Simon.

 

…. As yet no response, it’s almost like he’s got something better to be doing 😂! 

ratty

The 3020 was well known for being able to deliver a heck of a lot more than 20W into difficult low impedance loads during transients, assisted by the soft clipping feature. I had one back in the 80s and, even when I’d replaced it with more expensive pre and monoblocs, I’d still dust it off for party music. Pretty much indestructible.

Good luck with the Port into your Arcam Rdac. A small tip: either run the volume in Fixed mode or if you use Variable keep the volume below about 85-90%. Above that the Port will begin to apply soft-knee limiting on the very loudest digital samples, which can under extreme circumstances introduce just a smidgen of harmonic distortion. 

ratty

Thanks Ratty, I think the connect has the same issue doesn’t it? 

You may be recalling a fault on some models of Connect a while back where a soft knee limiter was found to be in use for Fixed volume (which is clearly wrong). As I understand it this has now been corrected. 

Soft knee limiting (compression) with variable volume is not uncommon, particularly with upstream EQ. It’s to avoid the much more unpleasant distortion that would arise should hard clipping occur.  

airforceteacher
Userlevel 6
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I replaced my ZP80 with a Port - no issues, works pretty much the same - I was using the digital output into an older Yamaha receiver (RX-V665 ~ 2010.)

D
Userlevel 2
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Just further commenting on the quality of the Power Supply for the Port. Why is this not visibly labeled   with the output specs and country of origin (we know where from anyway)? The 13 Amp connector does not appear to have a replaceable fuse either. I discovered tiny printing etched on the connector end but is too small to read. This is the worst power supply that I have encountered on an electrical product to date. The only reason for providing a low voltage power supply is that electrical products can be cheaply made overseas with no H&S risk and can be supplied worldwide with a country specific adapter like this. Reverting back to my Connect for a better subjective sound. Port is being returned shortly does not give me any feeling of equivalent quality.

ratty

I have a number of Ports, which replaced ZP80s (the ancestor of Connect).

The What HiFi review had a few ‘subjective’ observations about the internal DAC’s analog output quality. Despite complimenting Port’s “fairly clean and lean presentation” that was “cleaner and more detailed than its predecessor” they appeared to be looking for a ‘zing’ associated with a choice of filter/roll-off that I personally probably wouldn’t go for.

In your case all this is totally irrelevant as you have an outboard DAC, so feel no reservations on that score. The Port digital output is 24-bit when using variable volume -- to allow the level to be reduced to ~25% before any loss of resolution -- and a straight-through copy of the 16-bit samples in fixed volume.

As the ‘root’ of your SonosNet mesh you’ll also find that a Port has a distinctly stronger wireless than Connect.

 

buzz

One potential issue is that the CONNECT’s digital optical output has been eliminated.

PORT’s 12V trigger output can be very convenient.

ratty

I have not found a way to immobilise the volume slider as is the default for S1 for using the digital output, which I find annoying having only 2 locations in use.

Settings → System → Room_name → Line-Out → Line-Out Level

If you’ve been adjusting the volume limit all along while leaving the Line-Out as Variable, rather than Fixed, then it potentially explains the ‘night and day’ differences between Port and Connect. As I remarked in an earlier post there is evidence that Port uses more DSP in Variable, to protect the S/PDIF from clipping.

In Fixed Volume mode there should be zero difference, whether the SMPS is inside the enclosure or at a safe distance in an outboard PSU.

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