Sky Q and Sonos problems

I believe the SkyQ box creates a “mesh” with the main Sky hub, so yes the hub is an active WiFi.  The Play1 is actually connected to a switch as there is only 2 Ethernet ports on the sky router/hub.  If you leave sonos just on the WiFi (ie not sonosnet) the situation gets worse.  I believe the sonos mesh (sonosnet) is interacting with the sky mesh.

Do you know anything about sky?

Sky are the Internet provider, as such they provide the hub/router that connects to the telephone line.  They are also the providers of the TV service through a satellite dish, which is connected to the SkyQ box which provides the TV feed through HDMI to the TV.  In my setup this SkyQ box is connected to the house network by Ethernet.  Sky also provide a “mini” box to connect to a second TV.  The mini box is connected to the SkyQ box by WiFi.  The router/hub, SkyQ and mini box work together as a “mesh” to extend the WiFi coverage.

If you connect one of your Sonos boxes to you network by Ethernet, then Sonos establishes a Sonosnet which connects your sonos devices together rather than use the WiFi.

is this what you mean by topology?

There are no other routers just a switch.

I had a SkyQ box/mini installed 5 days ago and have experienced several problems with interaction with the Sonos system.

The issue

I have Sonos App on the IMac which sees the whole Sonos system (this took a reinstall of Sonos to get working)

I have Sonos App on IPad (IOS 12.5.1) and on Iphone (IOS 14.3).  Both of these will connect and see the whole Sonos system if I am in the vicinity of the co-located Modem/router/Wifi Hub and cabled Play1 and also if I am close to the Wifi Play 1 which is not close to either Sky box.

However, if I am in the same room as the Sonos 5 (close to Sky mini box) or TV Beam (close to the SkyQ box) then the Sonos App will not connect to the Sonos system.  If I, then move to vicinity of the Modem/router/Wifi Hub it magically finds the Sonos system and connects.

There is clearly a problem with interaction between Sky mesh and Sonos.  The minor irritation is that in order to pair/change inputs/control speakers in rooms from the IOS App I have to walk to another part of the house.

The more major concern is that the Internet maybe (or become) flaky and will produce other conflicts in the future, hence why I want to understand this issue.  There is some anecdotal feedback from family members working from home that they have dropped out of on-line meeting systems since the SkyQ install

The Internet and Sonos predated the installation of Sky Q and had been very stable and reliable.  It is the introduction of SkyQ that has caused the issue

Internet - 

Broadband Provider: Sky 

Modem/router/Wifi Hub: Model SR203

Network 

There is a Cat5 cable serving parts of the house and also the Sky Modem/Router acts as the primary Wifi hub.  It is using channel 11.

There are two switches in the Cat5 cabled network.

My understanding is that SkyQ and Sky mini boxes provide some king of “internet mesh”, so for information

The SkyQ box is physically connected to the network by Ethernet.  I have never installed it on the Wifi (ie I have never given it the Wifi password - it was installed from scratch in its current configuration)

Sky mini box is Wifi, no cable connected - again no Wifi password given, so it is only talking to the SkyQ box.

SkyQ box and Sky mini box are currently 3m apart (through a brick wall)

Sonos - I have tried various permutations, but the current set up is

Play 1 on Ethernet - providing Sonosnet (positioned near Modem/router/Wifi Hub, but actually connected to a netgear switch, rather than the Modem/router/Wifi Hub

The second Play 1 is on Wifi

Sonos 5 on Wifi - positioned 2m from Sky mini box

TV Beam on Wifi - positioned close to SkyQ box

I have moved Sonos to channel 1 and the Sonos devices say WM0 (so using Sonosnet)

This is what I have done

I have limited what I have done to avoid creating issues for my homeworking family.

I have powered down all Sonos devices, rebooted Modem/Router Hub and reconnected the Sonos devices (Ethernet connect Play 1 first).

My Thoughts

I have seen suggestions that you should avoid mixing networks by keep the Sky Mesh, SonosNet and cable connected devices separate

I have moved Sonos system to Sonosnet - it had been purely Wifi before.

I had wanted to keep Sky Q on Ethernet for speed of downloads and Sky mini box on Wifi for the ability to move to several locations/TVs in the house.  I could try moving SkyQ box to a Wifi connection.

Before I do this are there any other thoughts as to what might be going on?

Right up to the ‘Do you know anything about Sky?' ‘question', I saw nothing saying they were the ISP too.  Having SkyQ in no way means they are also your ISP or router provider.

It was a genuine question, not a sarky comment.  I assumed people on here might know about Sonos, but wasn’t sure if they would know about Sky.

Would that be true for other mesh system?

So yes, I have checked - when the Sonos App works the iPhone is connected to the main hub, when it doesn’t work it’s connected to either of the Sky boxes.

it is important for the Sky mini to talk to SkyQ to achieve the TV functionality.

So I could Connect Sky mini via Ethernet and switch off WiFi mesh entirely losing flexibility of Sky mini location and WiFi coverage benefit.

Some people have suggested that you could just turn off the 2.4 band on the sky boxes (not the hub) as I believe sky boxes only use the 5 frequency to communicate with each, but I’m not sure you can control what frequency other devices (eg iPhone) connect at, which would leave the app confused!

The iPhone manages to switch between access points, other applications run regardless of which access points iPhone is connected to, including the controlling Apps for other smart home connected devices (eg Hive).  Why is Sonos the only one that has a problem?

From my perspective at the moment Sonos needs to fix this - I feel like I would find it hard to recommend Sonos.

I can see that’s one possibility, but why do other application/device interactions work ok.  

I am sure that Sky will blame Sonos, indeed could it be that it is Sonos that’s not interpreting standards correctly.  

This is all the sort of thing that drives consumers mad.

It seems that for some reason, the access points (Sky Q and Sky mini) are not allowing the phone to speak to the network in the same way it does when the router is the access point. "

I have seen issues on these forums where SSDP issues cause interference and excessive Wifi slow down once SkyQ installed - fortunatly (fingers crossed) this isn't my problem, but I am obviously concerned that there might be an issue like this waiting to bite me if I don't understand the root cause.

The Iphone is on the network, the Sonos system is on the network - I can see both from the sky modem/router/hub.  I can use the App from devices connected to the router/hub (IMac is cabled, Iphone wifi).  So there is a problem with some kind of "handshake".  

As a consumer I don't know enough to understand if this is something Sky is not passing to the App or if it is something the App is not reading correctly from the Sky broadcast - or put another way is it Sky’s fault or Sonos's fault!  

Given that Sky do obviously have some issues with SSDP it is tempting to see it as their fault.  As a consumer I do need one of the suppliers to “own” the problem - rather than pointing the finger at the other supplier and leaving me stuck in the middle.  I guess I need to read up a bit about SSDP.

Thanks for helping me get to this point

I have spoken via chat to Sonos who confirmed that there is a fundamental incompatibility of Sonos with mesh networks and that it is not limited to Sky. 

They said Sonos uses the main router to communicate between phone and speakers and when a new BSSID is detected on the controller, speakers are trying to follow it to join, but they fail, due to different BSSID.  This a SONOS problem!

They said the - Main solution in these cases is split of band into 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz, to have them into 2 different networks, with different SSID's. Setting the Sonos on 2.4 Ghz as a main network and disabling 2.4Ghz band on the Sky Q box, which isolates Sonos on 2.4 Ghz and prevents interferences with BSSID broadcasted by the Sky Q Box.

So Sonos are telling me that I need to downgrade the rest of my system to accommodate deficiencies in the Sonos design. They tried to tell me it wasn’t a down grade. However he then admitted that the difference between the 2 bands is : 2.4Ghz, goes for longer distance while being a little bit slower, 5Ghz works at very high speeds, but on short range. In my view turning one frequency off diminishes my service. 

Fundamentally consumer products should not require you to mess around with such router settings.

I have made a considerable investment in Sonos products in the past and I am disappointed. I am now left wondering if other speakers suffer from the same limitations with mesh networks and whether Sonos have a project to rectify this shortcoming.  (I asked - they wouldn’t tell me)

Consumers need Sonos to take ownership of this issue, and from my perspective at the moment Sonos needs to fix this before I would ever recommend Sonos to another person.

I agree it doesn’t make sense, but it does agree with my experience.   He said that the speaker is routed via the main router by way of Sonosnet and only knows about SSID.  The Iphone controller app is connected on a different part of the network with a different 

I quote from the transcription “That is because Sonos uses the main router to communicate between phone and speakers and when a new BSSID is detected on the controller, speakers are trying to follow it to join, but they fail, due to different BSSID”

and “

Within access points, data communication is not always perfect and the data path costs more time than usual. With the increased number networks or MAC addresses, Sonos is trying to connect to the one that you used to set it up and it basically follows the lead of that one. “

It seems that Sonos are trying to overcome potential time lags

I have now received a communication from a member of the Escalation Team at Sonos who is going to “own the issue”  - I’ll report back if I get anywhere