S2 Update 14.12 Sub Issues

R
Userlevel 4

Hello,

With the recent 14.12 S2 Update there is a bug in the sub settings when using Trueplay, and I've pinpointed the problem.  I wanted to pass along this information to the company to ensure that the specifics of the issue are known.

It’s likely that most people may not notice this, or bother asking Sonos about it, but this is a real difference between 14.12 and the previous versions.

  • My current setup has an Arc, Sub(Gen1), and 2 Play1's.  
    • Using a white noise generator to review these differences.  
    • I'm controlling the sub settings on my iPad Pro while recording on my iPhone 12 Pro Max.  
    • I've run Trueplay twice since the update, and get the same results both times.  
      • Both Trueplay runs were with my iPhone as my iPad Pro does not have support yet.
  • Once updated to 14.12, you are prompted to re-run Trueplay.  But Trueplay has a bug in this new update.
  • I tested the frequencies with Trueplay On and then Off without changing the volume on the App.  
    • The only setting modified is the "Sub Audio" setting that ranges from -15 to +15
  • These differences are absolutely unique to the 14.12 update
    • I did not take pics, but have done similar tests before and the sub settings always increase/decrease all of the frequencies below the crossover
    • In previous versions, 40hz was always the highest db of any frequency when bossting the sub volume.

Trueplay On with Bass and Treble set to 0:  

  • Sub = 0: 
    • There is about a 4-5db reduction in the 30-60hz range and a boost in the 60-80hz range compared to Trueplay off

    •  

  • Sub = +15: 
    • Here is where you see the issue.  Sub 50hz doesn't change much at all even boosting the sub setting to the max  
    • There is a huge boost in the 60-80hz range where it is now the dominate frequency range of the sub

    •  

Trueplay Off with Bass, and Treble set to 0:  

  • Sub = 0
    • You can already see a difference in that the <50hz frequencies are higher and it's a pretty flat wave.

    •  
  • Sub = +15
    • Notice that now the dominate frequency range is the 35-50hz.  
    • The 60-80hz is still boosted, but it does not ever overtake the lower frequencies

    •  

  • Lastly, here is a grouped view showing these pictures side by side so you can really see the difference.
    • It also includes going -15 on the sub

    •  

  • Could it be a High Pass Filter setting that is getting triggered when you run TruePlay?
  • If you do not like the way your system sounds after 14.12, turn off Trueplay.
    • It will not be as good as what you are used to as Trueplay will adjust more to your room and leave less peaks/valleys throughout the spectrum.
    • But it will still be more like what you are used to hearing.

I can provide more information if needed, but hopefully this helps pinpoint the issue for everyone.  

 

Thank you for your time,

Robert

84 replies

M
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

Can someone confirm that after they retuned with trueplay the issue is resolved?  I have an iPhone 14ProMax and its not supported for trueplay yet.  Nice job Sonos, now I get to sit and wait for another release!  

Would seem to be the case, my sub is doing a lot more. Borrow a friend's iPhone for two mins, its all you need.

M

Can someone confirm that after they retuned with trueplay the issue is resolved?  I have an iPhone 14ProMax and its not supported for trueplay yet.  Nice job Sonos, now I get to sit and wait for another release!  

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi all,

Thank you for your continued discussion. We’re really happy to be able to tell you that today we’ll release an update that will include fixes to the issues that resulted from the 14.12 software update with Enhanced Clarity for Arc.In the 14.12 release, we made a change to Arc’s sound profile to improve dialogue clarity and the overall sound experience.  Since that update, some users whose configuration included a Sub have experienced two issues:

  1. Users of Arc would find the same volume settings resulted in lower output volume. Whilst the maximum volume and bass capabilities were unchanged, volume settings in the lower regions resulted in a quieter sound than before the update
  2. Users of Arc, Beam and Ray would find their Sub output is lower than desired after performing a new Trueplay tuning.

(Home theatre configurations without a Sub were unaffected, including standalone soundbars and those bonded with surrounds only)

With the 14.18 software update, both of these issues have been addressed, and the Enhanced Clarity for Arc adjustments are retained. There was a clear preference within our community for the previous volume settings, and these have been restored. This will be apparent immediately after updating to 14.18. The Trueplay issue has been fixed. Customers who experienced a lower Sub level after performing Trueplay after updating to 14.12 will need to update their systems and then perform a new Trueplay tuning in order to address these improvements in their system. Customers will hear a more powerful low end response, meaning any Sub level adjustments made after 14.12 should no longer be required.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
Airgetlam

I don’t understand this. Depending on speaker placement, TruePlay should make a potential big difference in the sound profile. 

Bruce
M

There is still a pretty big difference when you disable trueplay vs keeping it enabled after the 14.18 update.  I don’t think the update did anything to address the 14.12 bass issue.  

J
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

If there is no fix this Thursday then there will be a lot of crazy mad people , even Peter pee said he will make a new video about it if they won't fix by then.

I dont think they understand how big of a mess they made with that horrible 14.12 ... Audio company that don't care about its audio reproduction... should revert everything back to 14.10 asap but they never did , obviously midget mini sub to be blamed by that ..  

Airgetlam

Probably due to all the other things that were included in the various software releases since then. 

Bruce
Freelancer
Badge

Why doesn’t Sonos roll back the bug-plagued update to the last version prior to the TruePlay sub/Arc bug? Is there a logical reason for not doing so? Anything is better than this sound. It’s been months. Did they fire the one guy who knew how their TruePlay code works? 
 

It’s examples like this that make me roll my eyes when people compare Sonos to Apple. This is just poor form. Expected better.

Dogdad
Userlevel 5
Badge +14

 

Has anyone tested out the 14.14 release to see if it fixes the Sub issue?  I just updated (by accident) and have not tried enabling Trueplay yet to see if the Bass issue comes back.  Thanks for any updates as I am not home to test.

 

14.14 was for other things.. not the issues of 14.12. They’re still working on it. 

M

 

Has anyone tested out the 14.14 release to see if it fixes the Sub issue?  I just updated (by accident) and have not tried enabling Trueplay yet to see if the Bass issue comes back.  Thanks for any updates as I am not home to test.

 

I

Unfortunately the update completely destroyed sub performance. There is literally ZERO rumble, no sub bass. I have increased sub level to +5, and bass to +2 and am only getting an annoying increase in mid bass volume. Retuning trueplay or toggling it on/off yields no difference either.

S
Userlevel 1
Badge +2

I also noticed that something is wrong with the sound after 14.12

I put the volume way higher than before and I still don’t get the same results that I used to.

I did not read this thread until I have created a new one… Yes, I totally agreed the Ver update 14.12 is totally not worth,, just regret else I hope to return back to previous version if possible.

 

Next time, I would consider to hold for a while before updating. 

M

I have the same issue since the 14.12 update, I have (2) Gen3 subs, a Sonos ARC and (2) Sonos ones SL.  Once I disabled the trueplay the bass was back to how it originally was.  I did not realize how bad it was until I was watching Godzilla vs Kong and then disabled the trueplay.  It’s night and day difference, I hope Sonos fixes this soon.  At this price point they should have better test and QA.  

Sonos put out a post on the issues today…might maybe read it.

Dogdad,

 

Featuring two posts up from mine the problem was listed, the issue has NOTHING to do with reading.. it has to do with making sure Sonos knows how many people are having the issue and the system configuration that maybe impacted.  Maybe before making comments with no value, you should think about the bigger picture.  

A
Userlevel 2
Badge

For me, disabling TruePlay didn’t seem to make much difference. Still very little bass and a tinny sound. Increasing the bass EQ to max made some difference, but still lacked depth.

I have read the Sonos community manager post about the update and I have commented in more depth there.

It seems to me either Sonos have not fully understood the scope of the issues, or have chosen to not fully acknowledge them for marketing reasons. In my opinion neither would reflect well on Sonos.

Dogdad
Userlevel 5
Badge +14

I have the same issue since the 14.12 update, I have (2) Gen3 subs, a Sonos ARC and (2) Sonos ones SL.  Once I disabled the trueplay the bass was back to how it originally was.  I did not realize how bad it was until I was watching Godzilla vs Kong and then disabled the trueplay.  It’s night and day difference, I hope Sonos fixes this soon.  At this price point they should have better test and QA.  

Sonos put out a post on the issues today…might maybe read it.

M

I have the same issue since the 14.12 update, I have (2) Gen3 subs, a Sonos ARC and (2) Sonos ones SL.  Once I disabled the trueplay the bass was back to how it originally was.  I did not realize how bad it was until I was watching Godzilla vs Kong and then disabled the trueplay.  It’s night and day difference, I hope Sonos fixes this soon.  At this price point they should have better test and QA.  

I
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

I just saw that in the announcements section thanks

Dogdad
Userlevel 5
Badge +14

Sonos has put out a general statement to the public on this issue explaining it all. 

I
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

I just got an email reply from Sonos after contacting them, hope this helps……

Hello Ian,

Thank you for contacting Sonos Customer Experience. My name is Shising, and I am happy to assist you regarding your issue. I am sorry you have had to deal with this issue. I know how frustrating it is when the system does not work as it should, and I will do my best to help you.

After the release of R3 2022, an issue was discovered that impacts audio quality negatively with Trueplay enabled on certain Home Theater Configurations.

The issue will result in slightly less output from the Sub. The issue for Arc will also affect certain other frequencies and currently, it can only be fully mitigated by Turning off Trueplay tuning | Sonos.

Please note that R3 also introduced additional changes to the Arc's audio output. These changes are expected and can result in a slightly lower perceived volume output but can simply be changed by raising the volume slightly in the Sonos app. The user doesn't lose out on overall volume, as it's just the volume scale that has been adjusted slightly. These changes are intended and are working as designed.

We are aware of the issue that Trueplay affects the sound quality negatively and are working on a fix but do not have any more information or a timeline to share.

Once again, we apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you, and we thank you for your understanding on this matter. If you have other concerns, feel free to let us know.

All the best,

Majo133
Userlevel 6
Badge +2

@ropfeil great, thanks for the summ. So let us know if SONOS reached to u regarding the SUB issues.

Yesterday, is not today.
Majo133
Userlevel 6
Badge +2

I can also confirm SUB sounds anemic after 14.12 update and also the overall volume of the whole system has been somehow deafened, meaning the volume slider has to be set to a higher volume.

So yeah, it seems QA at SONOS did not do their job.

Yesterday, is not today.
J

My system also now sounds poor after update and  redoing truplay several times.  I contacted support but they seem to be unaware of the 14.12 problem. They just recommended reboot, change router channel, etc.  
Is there anywhere else we can provide feedback towards getting a fix deployed for this?

J
Userlevel 1

I purchased Sonos (Arc and sub gen 3) because of impressive low bass I love. Now after update I am sure I could bought anything else than Sonos. I heard two versions of Dolby Atmos demo on Peter YouTube channel and I know previous FW version was better for me. This update did hurt my Sonos experience and I will be sad but it will go away if they will not fix it. Is any Sonos team member read it?

R
Userlevel 4

Reposting from the FB group as there are a lot of new posts coming in with similar comments/questions so wanted to have a refresher.

1)    Peter Pee did a really good video on the changes to the Arc.  But this video is only about the Arc changes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrQRuyi8kLA&t=2s

2)    The changes to the Arc are purposeful and are documented in the Update notes.  It still seems that people either love it or hate it.  After listening to it even more, I actually like what they've done with the Arc especially after Trueplay.  

3)    The changes to the sub are not documented and thus it does not look like it was planned.  Support was not aware of any changes to the sub either.

4)    The change with the sub is going to exist for everyone as it's a software change where Trueplay is not adjusting the <50hz frequencies much at all.

5)    The difference between Trueplay On and Off is interesting when the sub is turned up all the way.  Trueplay On = 60hz is 20db MORE than 40hz. Trueplay Off = 60hz is 4-6db LESS than 40hz

6)    So between Trueplay On vs Off, it's a difference of at least 24db between 40hz and 60hz when the sub volume is turned up all the way.  This is the key that shows trueplay adjustment is not changing the 40hz frequency much at all.

7)    If you play music that doesn't have <50hz frequencies, it's very likely that this change makes the music sound better.  I've had issues with the crossover specifically because we lose these 70-90hz frequencies in the overlapping point.

8)    If you haven't noticed the change, don't go looking for it.  Enjoy that you haven't noticed it and keep on rocking.

9)    While I don't like the changes to the sub, I still play music and movies and enjoy them.  It doesn't make me regret buying Sonos.  Mistakes and defects happen in software, and no software is perfect.

10)    I chatted with Sonos Support Tuesday night and they said they'll have their specialists look into the data I gathered, but I haven't heard anything from them yet.  I'm heading on vacation, but will keep an eye out and update if I hear more.

R
Badge

Seeing similar issues with sub seemingly lacking in the low end thump I was used to(sub level usually +5). Even setting to +15 doesn't give you the low end, just a weird washy bass that sounds like it's coming from the other room.

 

I am Playbar, 2x play:1 and sub gen3

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