Playlist constraints



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41 replies

Buzz,

What you say is interesting because it points to a much larger Sonos playlist capacity than 10k tracks.

I don't have any imported playlists, so I don't see any iTunes hand in this. When I read about the 10k limit, it sort of computed in my mind based on a quick mental scan of the track count in my approximately 50 Sonos playlists - 200 tracks per list on an average seemed about right.

I don't have too many classical albums, which is where file names and tag data seem to use up memory, afaik.

Given the above, how you were able to build two new Sonos playlists with 38k tracks is a mystery - this would suggest that there isn't a 10k limit on Sonos playlist track count.
I've encountered a failure to create a new Sonos Playlist when the aggregate was around 8k tracks. And as I remarked the length of the track references (URI for online tracks, pathname for the local library) seemed to be a factor. buzz's findings tend to support this theory.

Also the fact that a jumbled list of local tracks seems to take up more space than a list of tracks ordered by album suggests that Sonos uses a basic form of compression when the same directory path is repeated.

I'm unsure whether metadata is stored in the Sonos Playlist along with the track reference, but it would be very inefficient to do so.

Returning to the iTunes question, try
(a) locating the 'iTunes Music Library.xml' file at the same level in the music folder hierarchy on the NAS as on the Mac
(b) pointing Sonos at that folder in the share explicitly, rather than the share root

BTW you can choose to prioritise or skip certain iTunes playlists using a simple coding scheme.

Returning to the iTunes question, try

I don't think it will be of any use.
I had no idea of this playlist issue when I was setting up the NAS, and when I copy/pasted from the Mac into the NAS, I did not pay any attention to the directory structures. I merely copied files into two flat folders based on file purchase/rip dates, and these folders in turn contain folders for each artiste's albums. Also, I have often copied albums into different folders than how they exist in the Mac iTunes library. As I said, I did not think it mattered and until I hit this constraint, it hasn't ever. Using Sonos playlists, I am able to get exactly what I want for how my listening needs to be organised.
But the paths are often very different in the two places where the albums are stored.
Am I right then in thinking there isn't any quick solution to this?
I have lived with this issue by letting old/rarely used playlists go to free up space, and ought to be able to manage in future as well.
A bigger cupboard would be nice, but I can live with the smaller one. After all, before Sonos the best I could get in this direction was from a 6 CD changer set to random play!
Am I right then in thinking there isn't any quick solution to this?
Well there is, but it may not be what you want to do.

As I said before, Sonos has a go at remapping the playlist references to the new file locations, but the working assumption is that the directory tree substructure on the NAS is the same.

Since for the purpose of the main library index Sonos doesn't care where files live, you could always re-copy the entire library over to the NAS, preserving the original directory structure.
If only it were that simple:). I also have files on the NAS from an older iPod that aren't in the ITunes folder on the Mac, as well as some from an old USB stick that aren't ripped in iTunes, so I am going to have to think about how to proceed so that I don't solve a problem by creating another.
Thanks for the tips.
I have just under 10K tracks (something approaching 500 CDs maybe, which doesn't seem unreasonable) and I get the out-of-memory error when trying to save to a single playlist; this is nice to have for parties, shared family listening over dinner etc. Got in trouble the other day for deleting some of the kid's playlists to make space.

I have heard about possible work-arounds, but found no advice I can make sense of. Can anybody help me please, without getting too techie on me? I'm a music fan, not an IT expert, so afraid the jargon is lost on me. I'd be very grateful. Thank you.
You're presumably trying to save to a Sonos Playlist. The aggregate limit is around 10k tracks, though I've encountered a ceiling rather lower than that. A shuffled queue seems to require more space than one ordered by album.

The only workaround is to compose your playlist as an external M3U file, using a text editor. Index that into the library and it can be loaded at will as an 'imported playlist'. In fact the M3U file can be modified any time without needing a re-indexing scan. The library index merely stores the file's location; the contents are loaded into the queue on the fly.
Thanks Ratty. I will gen up on M3U files and explore..... Much appreciated. Cheers.
I tried to load a very large external M3U playlist from wmp into Sonos and it reaches a size limit and won't let me load the whole playlist. I am not sure (as a non tecchie and SONOS newbie) whether I understand the previous posts. Is there a limit on the combined total tracks in all playlists or is it a limit for each list?
I tried to load a very large external M3U playlist from wmp into Sonos and it reaches a size limit and won't let me load the whole playlist. I am not sure (as a non tecchie and SONOS newbie) whether I understand the previous posts. Is there a limit on the combined total tracks in all playlists or is it a limit for each list?
How many tracks in the playlist? What error message does it give you?

The queue should be able to accept tens of thousands of tracks. 65k at least. But there appears to be a 15-second time limit on any single operation to load tracks. A very large M3U playlist could potentially trigger the timeout.
There are 22,000 songs on that particular playlist. (I've been curating it for a while!). And the message I get is "can't browse music". Some other, much shorter playlists are working ok. But it also hasn't yet been able to read my full music library from my external hard drive. I am trying to update the SONOS library again as I type. But if there is a 65,000 song limit, then I will probably not be succesful.
22k songs in an M3U is not excessive. However it sounds like you have local issues which are interfering with the read operation from your local storage. Where is the library stored? How is that device connected to the network?

As for the Sonos library limits, yes 65k tracks is the hard ceiling. Moreover if tags or filenames are especially long this can reduce the number of track 'slots' from that figure.
22k songs in an M3U is not excessive? That is reassuring - I thought I was a freak.

Where is the library stored? On a Seagate external drive attached to my laptop, being read via wmp.

How is that device connected to the network? Via wmp and then wirelessly. I have tried using the SONOS app, using wmp's Play To function and setting up SWYH and an online radio station. None are working properly.
an

Moreover if tags or filenames are especially long this can reduce the number of track 'slots' from that figure. Interesting, I have a lot of detail in tags - could that be a problem?
Sonos doesn't access your files via WMP. It uses standard CIFS/SMB file sharing.

I suspect you have a wireless issues with that computer. Can you try wiring it to the network.

What Sonos devices do you have? Are any of those wired?

If you have 22k songs in total that's well short of the library limits.
i have 98k songs - 22k in the playlist
You've over the limit then. Sonos will only index part of your collection.

If your M3U contains pointers to files which Sonos hasn't indexed then filenames will show up in the queue, rather than metadata. Sonos should still play the files, even if they're not indexed.

Loading the 22k track M3U should work, unless you have local comms issues.