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Persistent playback issues

  • 4 September 2021
  • 72 replies
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Hi all

 

I'm posting here as a final hope. I have a set up of:

1 x boost

1 x beam

4 x play:1

1 x play:3

2 x One SL

1 x One

1 x Sub

 

I moved into my current house in January, moving in with most of the speakers and adding the 2 One SLs.

The house isn't massive, but it is old. And has a mixture of walls between rooms that vary from a single bricks thickness to an absurdly thick 20 inches (of brick and stone. Like I said...old house!) 

 

Due to the walls the house kills WIFI. I have cable broadband with download speeds of up to 220mbs if within a few feet of the router. However if you move to the adjoining room (beyond one of the 20 inch walls) you'll be lucky to even pick up the WiFi, not least achieve any respectable download speeds. So I've installed a netgear orbi mesh, with 3 access points in the 'dead zones'. WiFi now works perfectly well, as does the 2 hue hubs I have (1 hub for each floor, every room in the house is equipped with hue).

 

I also have ring door bell and a couple of their cameras that work fine.

 

I've recently shiftes the 5ghz network to the cleanest channel (using a WiFi analytics app), and shift the 2. 4 ghz to second cleanest channel, and set the sonos mesh up to the cleanest channel.

 

I have one neighbour who lives closely. But they often my phone won't even find their WiFi due to the walls! 

 

The boost is hardwired into the main router, as is the sub. 3 subsequent speakers are hardwired to 2 separate APs.

 

But the speakers constantly cut out when playing music. Randomly on occasion, certainly when skipping a track. I've called sonos support who advised I've "done everything" and to try hard wiring more speakers (which I did, hence the number plugged in). This hasn't helped. There's no constants, some speakers are worse than others on different days. But they are all unreliable at different times. Sometimes all the speakers stop and skips to the next track. Sometimes a couple just stop playing for a few seconds.

 

I'm now left questioning if it's time I move to another make of speakers. I love sonos, and appreciate the house is a challenge for WiFi. But I am finding myself just switching off music and/or not even bothering to turn them on now which makes me sad!

 

Having checked the network matrix, it is mostly made up of green, couple of orange. No red. I spent months slowly moving speakers to new locations to eradicate red. I don't want to run cables everywhere and I've exhausted my limited knowledge of networking! I have also rebooted everything several times. Problem is its only sonos that is not working as it should. 

 

I stream Spotify mostly. If anyone could suggest anything to try I'd greatly appreciate it

 

Thanks

 

Tom

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Best answer by Corry P 16 September 2021, 16:22

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72 replies

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Pictures of boost below. The ethernet socket it is plugged into was fitted and runs straight to switch

 

The room is below the study, and is also adjacent to utility room and the living room with no doors, it's all open plan. The piano room is just off the dining room too (it's an odd shaped house) and is no more than 15ft away

 

 

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @Goteamtom 

That’s not a WiFi acoustic guitar is it? :laughing:

In terms of interference, it looks fine. What could be a problem is the likely increase of mass in that corner, due to extra joists (depending on the materials used, of course). Do you have another spot, ideally central to your Sonos devices, where you could test the Boost, while keeping it wired?

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
G
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Hi @Goteamtom 

That’s not a WiFi acoustic guitar is it? :laughing: no..but not a bad idea!!

In terms of interference, it looks fine. What could be a problem is the likely increase of mass in that corner, due to extra joists (depending on the materials used, of course). Do you have another spot, ideally central to your Sonos devices, where you could test the Boost, while keeping it wired?

unfortunately this is its third location! i’ve tried it the other side of the dining room, and upstairs in the study. the best performance has been in it’s current location. realistically the dining room or the study (almost directly above) is the most central spot in the house. when we first moved in it was in living room briefly and the garage but that proved completely fruitless 

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @Goteamtom 

Fair enough.

I think the key will be minimising the multicasts. The PER (Packet Error Rate) between the Boost and some of the speakers concerns me, and that’s mostly to do with interference or poor reception, but getting rid of the multicast flooding may allow the system to cope with the PER we have, or at the very least it will be easier to determine when you have found the best spot for the Boost, i.e. moving the Boost will actually have a positive effect on grouped playback. Wiring more Sonos devices should make the PER less of an issue too.

Right now, the annoying factor is that you have 2 situations which both result in exactly the same symptoms. Clearing one or the other may help, but both need to be resolved before you will be able to group all your rooms together successfully.

Edit: 3 situations, if you count the possible IP conflict for the Play:5.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
G
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Hi @Goteamtom 

Fair enough.

I think the key will be minimising the multicasts. The PER (Packet Error Rate) between the Boost and some of the speakers concerns me, and that’s mostly to do with interference or poor reception, but getting rid of the multicast flooding may allow the system to cope with the PER we have, or at the very least it will be easier to determine when you have found the best spot for the Boost, i.e. moving the Boost will actually have a positive effect on grouped playback. Wiring more Sonos devices should make the PER less of an issue too.

Right now, the annoying factor is that you have 2 situations which both result in exactly the same symptoms. Clearing one or the other may help, but both need to be resolved before you will be able to group all your rooms together successfully.

Edit: 3 situations, if you count the possible IP conflict for the Play:5.

Hi, apologies for the delay in replying. So I've finally plugged another sonos speaker into the switch, and the results are strange. Firstly, the flashing lights on the switch above the two sonos ethernet cables both are flashing slowly, with both the green and orange light flashing simultaneously. And then after a few mins sonos starts skipping songs in quick succession before dropping out completely. I then need to unplug the additional wired sonos units and reboot the switch, and then it's back to how it was!

 

Any ideas? I've googled, and it suggests it's a spanning issue? I've no idea..

 

Please help

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Sorry, a diagnostics code 820712339 

 

Its getting to a point I don't use sonos anymore. I used to leave the radio on for my dogs when we're are out. But I don't remember the last time the radio played for more than 20 minutes before turning itself off. When. Playing music it'll randomly skip mid track and rlthen skip several tracks, finishing a 2 hour playlist in 20 mins..

 

Its steadily getting worse and I'm in the midst of doing up rooms in the rest of the house but am not adding speakers to them...which is the only reason I want sonos..

I know there is something sapping the Internet, but I can't work out what. And nothing else seems to have issue except sonos. 

Apparently bang and olufsen is (whilst a lot more expensive) have a more sturdier wireless set up. I am considering replacing, has anyone had much experience with B&O? Because whilst writing this post my sonos has skipped 3 songs!! 

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @Goteamtom 

A “spanning” issue will be relating to STP (Spanning Tree Protocol) which normally prevents data packets travelling in loops on the network and never reaching their destination. They eventually add up to so much traffic that there’s no bandwidth left for other traffic. I asked for some help on this one, and the reply was that the players are noticing a lot of changes to the STP routing and they are constantly having to reroute and re-advertise themselves.

We suspect the router is at fault and may need replaced. However, something worth trying (if not already tried) is to run your Sonos system without any ethernet connections at all - as you have a mesh WiFi, they have a good chance of connecting. Please ensure all your rooms are online in the app and go to Settings » System » Network » Wireless Setup to tell Sonos your WiFi credentials and when the app says to, please disconnect all ethernet connections to Sonos. You may as well unplug the Boost from power too.

Within about 2 minutes, all your rooms should be visible in the app.

If that doesn’t help, I can only recommend testing a replacement router - to be returned for a refund if it doesn’t fix everything.

I hope this helps.

 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
G
Badge +2

Hi @Goteamtom 

A “spanning” issue will be relating to STP (Spanning Tree Protocol) which normally prevents data packets travelling in loops on the network and never reaching their destination. They eventually add up to so much traffic that there’s no bandwidth left for other traffic. I asked for some help on this one, and the reply was that the players are noticing a lot of changes to the STP routing and they are constantly having to reroute and re-advertise themselves.

We suspect the router is at fault and may need replaced. However, something worth trying (if not already tried) is to run your Sonos system without any ethernet connections at all - as you have a mesh WiFi, they have a good chance of connecting. Please ensure all your rooms are online in the app and go to Settings » System » Network » Wireless Setup to tell Sonos your WiFi credentials and when the app says to, please disconnect all ethernet connections to Sonos. You may as well unplug the Boost from power too.

Within about 2 minutes, all your rooms should be visible in the app.

If that doesn’t help, I can only recommend testing a replacement router - to be returned for a refund if it doesn’t fix everything.

I hope this helps.

 

Thanks, I'm willing to try anything! 

 

Unfortunately I'm clicking following the instructions but the app starts to check to ensure the app is up to date, then reports an error 1001. I've tried restarting, it keeps happening.. 

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The app then wouldn't let me connect to anything. Eventually it just started working, but only some of the speakers made it to the connecting to WiFi. I had to press the button on the back of the beam twice for it to work, and 2-3 minute it suggested it'd take to transfer all speakers over took about 5..and only a few made the journey!

 

1926506082

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @Goteamtom 

Update error 1001 is the app losing contact with a player during the update process, which makes sense with what’s going on. Repeated retries might get you there eventually.

Now that at least some of your players know the WiFi credentials, they will share it with players that don’t know them - once they are able to talk. Wiring back to ethernet to get all the rooms back, waiting a few minutes, then removing ethernet again will hopefully get the credentials distributed. Any rooms missing at that point are likely having trouble reaching a WiFi access point. Or, the flooding is getting worse without the IGMP switch in the loop, and some players just can’t get on to the network due to this.

I did find this little list:

Devices that generally cause multicast flooding on Sonos:

  • IP Cameras
  • Network Video Recorders
  • IP TVs
  • TV Set-top or Cable boxes
  • Home Security & Control Systems
  • Network Printers
  • Misconfigured network devices
  • Using switches or a router that do not support IGMP Snooping

Perhaps you can try turning some devices off, to see if things improve. If one device in particular seems to be the culprit, searching for it and multicast flooding may provide some answers.

I wish I had something I could point to and say “yes, this is proof that your router is faulty”, but I don’t. At this point though, I’m not sure what else to suggest (assuming the Orbi router’s firmware is up-to-date - definitely worth checking). As you have a Virgin router, I suppose you could try putting it back into router mode and the mesh into Bridge mode, but as I personally have a SuperHub 3 too (also in Modem mode), I would understand if you didn’t think this was worth the effort.

 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
G
Badge +2

Hi @Goteamtom 

Update error 1001 is the app losing contact with a player during the update process, which makes sense with what’s going on. Repeated retries might get you there eventually.

Now that at least some of your players know the WiFi credentials, they will share it with players that don’t know them - once they are able to talk. Wiring back to ethernet to get all the rooms back, waiting a few minutes, then removing ethernet again will hopefully get the credentials distributed. Any rooms missing at that point are likely having trouble reaching a WiFi access point. Or, the flooding is getting worse without the IGMP switch in the loop, and some players just can’t get on to the network due to this.

I did find this little list:

Devices that generally cause multicast flooding on Sonos:

  • IP Cameras
  • Network Video Recorders
  • IP TVs
  • TV Set-top or Cable boxes
  • Home Security & Control Systems
  • Network Printers
  • Misconfigured network devices
  • Using switches or a router that do not support IGMP Snooping

Perhaps you can try turning some devices off, to see if things improve. If one device in particular seems to be the culprit, searching for it and multicast flooding may provide some answers.

I wish I had something I could point to and say “yes, this is proof that your router is faulty”, but I don’t. At this point though, I’m not sure what else to suggest (assuming the Orbi router’s firmware is up-to-date - definitely worth checking). As you have a Virgin router, I suppose you could try putting it back into router mode and the mesh into Bridge mode, but as I personally have a SuperHub 3 too (also in Modem mode), I would understand if you didn’t think this was worth the effort.

 

Yeh it is a lot of effort! Unfortunately I feel I can do no more, I've run cables across the house, tried moving things, spent 100s in the process (not to mention the damage made to recently decorated rooms etc., I am not popular in my house right now!). And all it's done is get worse. It's a shame as I really like sonos and enjoyed it thoroughly in my old house. But I can't use it like this, and considering nothing else is struggling (vast hue, two separate offices with connects computers and kit, ring devices etc.) I'm just going to give up on sonos. I haven't the energy to go on!

 

 

 

Thanks for all your help and support, to everyone who has replied. 

 

 

 

I'll start taking apart the sonos system this weekend, so if anyone is interested in any of the below please let me know, sure we can negotiate a price! 

 

 

 

Sonos beam

 

Sub

 

Play five

 

Play 3

 

Play 1

 

Play one 

 

 

 

I have a few of some of the above so if you want pairing etc. 

 

 

 

Good luck everyone! 

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @Goteamtom 

That is of course your choice. I’m sorry I couldn't find a definite solution for you.

In your Sonos system’s defence, it can only be as reliable as the network that hosts it, and due to their proclivity to talk to each other, Sonos players can make use of a network in ways that highlight issues that other devices do not notice.

However, selling products of any kind is not permitted on this forum. I recommend eBay or similar. Thanks.

 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
G
Badge +2

Hi @Goteamtom 

That is of course your choice. I’m sorry I couldn't find a definite solution for you.

In your Sonos system’s defence, it can only be as reliable as the network that hosts it, and due to their proclivity to talk to each other, Sonos players can make use of a network in ways that highlight issues that other devices do not notice.

However, selling products of any kind is not permitted on this forum. I recommend eBay or similar. Thanks.

 

I'm not one for giving up... 

 

One last idea, can you please let me know if this diagnostics code suggests anything has improved from previous ones? Specifically the flooding it was experiencing previously 

 

757557322

 

Thank you 

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @Goteamtom 

Yes. Yes it does. In that diagnostic, I see no sign of multicast flooding at all, on any devices.

There are still some transmission fails, but without the multicast flooding compounding the issue, you should be seeing (hearing?) a major improvement. A second ethernet wiring may help with this (if it doesn’t do what it did last time, that is).

What did you do?

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
G
Badge +2

Hi @Goteamtom 

Yes. Yes it does. In that diagnostic, I see no sign of multicast flooding at all, on any devices.

There are still some transmission fails, but without the multicast flooding compounding the issue, you should be seeing (hearing?) a major improvement. A second ethernet wiring may help with this (if it doesn’t do what it did last time, that is).

What did you do?

Hi! So I switched off one of the orbi access points. Seemed to fix it. I got rid of the access point and basically sacrificed WiFi in the fursets reaches of the house. However it only resolved the issues briefly. Now the issues are back and as bad as ever. The speakers stop mid track, and previously they'd skip a track or two. Now it's just stopping. I had to restart the radio some 8 times in 2 hours last week…

 

Could you please take a look at the below diagnostics? Any idea? 

 

If I wire a second speaker into the switch to which the Boost is wired it crashes the entire Internet to the house.. 

 

647173807

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The dining room and piano room have been grouped and just cut out. Then "couldn't be reached" by the app, so I couldn't even restart the music..

 

44542498

skullc
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

Do you by any chance have a virgin main router?

If so have you turned off the wifi on that and just used your mesh wifi network?

I use eero in my old house with more sonos speakers than you plus all lights and doorbell and cameras with no issues 

I have 1 wired, my arc, all my speakers appear as wm0 with the exception of my sonos moves which are wm1 and work in the garden with no dropouts.

Apologies if you have tried this 

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
G
Badge +2

Do you by any chance have a virgin main router?

If so have you turned off the wifi on that and just used your mesh wifi network?

I use eero in my old house with more sonos speakers than you plus all lights and doorbell and cameras with no issues 

I have 1 wired, my arc, all my speakers appear as wm0 with the exception of my sonos moves which are wm1 and work in the garden with no dropouts.

Apologies if you have tried this 

I do indeed have a virgin main router. I (had to double check...just making sure...) can confirm it is in modem mode. Thanks though, any other ideas? I'll try anything now!

 

I'm starting to think it's the netgear orbi causing issues. But the only thing that seems to struggle is sonos! 

skullc
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

Do you by any chance have a virgin main router?

If so have you turned off the wifi on that and just used your mesh wifi network?

I use eero in my old house with more sonos speakers than you plus all lights and doorbell and cameras with no issues 

I have 1 wired, my arc, all my speakers appear as wm0 with the exception of my sonos moves which are wm1 and work in the garden with no dropouts.

Apologies if you have tried this 

I do indeed have a virgin main router. I (had to double check...just making sure...) can confirm it is in modem mode. Thanks though, any other ideas? I'll try anything now!

 

I'm starting to think it's the netgear orbi causing issues. But the only thing that seems to struggle is sonos! 

I have no experience with orbi but my eero has the facilities to do reserve ip’s which I have done

Also which devices are being used as dhcp providing the ip’s on your network?

And how many devices does orbi support?

Eero supports 64

Also forgot to mention my virgin router is not in modem mode I just disabled Wi-Fi 

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
G
Badge +2

Do you by any chance have a virgin main router?

If so have you turned off the wifi on that and just used your mesh wifi network?

I use eero in my old house with more sonos speakers than you plus all lights and doorbell and cameras with no issues 

I have 1 wired, my arc, all my speakers appear as wm0 with the exception of my sonos moves which are wm1 and work in the garden with no dropouts.

Apologies if you have tried this 

I do indeed have a virgin main router. I (had to double check...just making sure...) can confirm it is in modem mode. Thanks though, any other ideas? I'll try anything now!

 

I'm starting to think it's the netgear orbi causing issues. But the only thing that seems to struggle is sonos! 

I have no experience with orbi but my eero has the facilities to do reserve ip’s which I have done

Yeh I did that recently, it hasn't seemed to have helped unfortunately 

Also which devices are being used as dhcp providing the ip’s on your network?

I honestly don't know what that means, can you explain like I'm a child please? 

And how many devices does orbi support?

Not sure...I'll try and find out

Eero supports 64

Also forgot to mention my virgin router is not in modem mode I just disabled Wi-Fi 

Why have you done that? You're obviously more clued up that I am. I'd have assumed that wouldn't be recommended, but it's clearly working for you. Reckon I should give it a shot? 

Thanks for your help 

skullc
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

Sent you a private message 

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
skullc
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

As you have not responded to my private message I recommend you watch YouTube video from Aire theater designs about sonos connection issues they describe dhcp and how to setup sonos network better than I can describe in written words😊

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
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