Joint lawsuit against SONOS


Userlevel 2
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Today I ran into a problem. I rebooted the playbar to the factory settings, and when I try to reconfigure, the application requires access to my location. If I refuse to grant access, I can’t set up my playbar !!!!! Starting from iOS 13, SONOS requires the provision of a geographical location via the GPS of your phone. If you refuse to provide access to a geographical location, you cannot use the product that you bought. It turns out that Sonos put forward an ultimatum to me. Want to use a player, we need to know where you are! But this is a violation of my rights. When I bought the device, the use agreement did not contain information that I must provide my location to use the product.

I am going to go to court.  Because I believe that Sonos illegally restricts me in my right to privacy. If you want to join the lawsuit, write me a message. 

I admit that when selling a new device, Sonos may require certain conditions from the buyer, but when Sonos forbids me to use the device I bought earlier, this is a violation of my rights.

Sonos should return my money and take the goods back.  Because I do not agree with the rules that Sonos has implemented without agreement with me. If you agree with me and consider that SONOS limits your right to use your equipment, write to me.


110 replies

Astonished to return to this thread and find it still being taken seriously.

European privacy and consumer protection laws should make this an easy win.

 

I don't think you understand GDPR then.

Userlevel 7
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While it might not be the case with some speakers out there, Sonos devices are much more than just speakers. They are computers that are designed to play music as a system, synchronized and controllable across multiple devices and platforms. I get that you disagree on what you think is a basic function, but Sonos devices need to be running the same software build on all devices, which makes updating at the beginning an important part of the setup process, and a core function.

Location - Geofencing of services, listing local radio stations

Name - Not required by Sonos.

email - Requiring an email is so ubiquitous in this day and age, as is the use of burner emails, so this is sheer pedantry. 

IP Address - Part of the warranty is lifetime support.  These are the types of things in a diagnostic needed for that support.  If you don’t want them knowing it, don’t get support and don’t send a diagnostic.  It is entirely voluntary.  

 

 

Moderator edit: Removed profanity.

 

Paranoia, however, left intact.

Sonos has always required some type of postal code.  They say it is to allow for geo-blocking of services, and to list your local radio stations in TuneIn, but they are really spying for an international data consortium that will sell your zip code (which can be found with a simple Google search) for billions.

 

Muhahahaha!

Userlevel 7
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Check out the link at the end there to find out more about what Apple includes in Location Services.

Sonos players are all Internet connected devices, designed for music and streaming. They get updates online for security patches, new features, and other things, like adding AirPlay 2 and updating AirPlay protocols.

A while back, we improved our security policies to add passwords to preexisting accounts which have always required an email address for registration. Along with this, we implemented account linking to facilitate seamless integration with cloud services like Amazon Alexa, Spotify, and Deezer. This allows for things like starting a stream with AirPlay, and skipping the track with Alexa or Google Assistant, or the Sonos app. While it might not be a feature you’re looking for, it’s something that we had to lay the groundwork for everyone.
 

As to storing and using personal data, I can’t say it any better than our privacy policy, stated here.

Userlevel 6
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As I said - you won’t find many on here who agree with you.

 

andrew

Userlevel 4
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Both SoundCloud and Tidal need to verify your location to make sure that you meet the legal requirements to receive the services they provide.  Does this not concern you?

 

Userlevel 3
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Both SoundCloud and Tidal need to verify your location to make sure that you meet the legal requirements to receive the services they provide.  Does this not concern you?

 

 All the music apps require this to some degree I would imagine(though I believe they don't require location permissions on your phone when used through Sonos app). But there are some people who don't use music services  and only their listen to their own music on their local network (shocking I know). 

If I was this type of person I might want to know why Sonos needs to know my precise location via my device to set up and use my speaker. In the OPs shoes I can maybe see this as unnecessary. 

But Im not that type of person and like KennyG I'm gonna go back to listening to music on my great sounding system through Spotify. 

As stated, this is nothing new.  You had to give Sonos your location when you first set it up, otherwise, it would not be working today.  Stop with the silly lawsuit nonsense, any lawyer who hears your case will laugh you out of their office.  

Userlevel 2
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Both SoundCloud and Tidal need to verify your location to make sure that you meet the legal requirements to receive the services they provide.  Does this not concern you?

 

Hello. I have been using SoundCloud and Tidal for many years. None of the services ever asked me for geolocation.

Sonos shares this information with them. It's in the privacy policy. 

 

No. SONOS does not provide them with any information. SONOS speaks about this in its privacy policy. SoundCloud never asks for your geolocation. They don’t need it. This is a free platform. As for TIDAL, it is important for them where the account is registered. But they determine the location by IP address. For example, my account is registered with a European IP, because in the USA a subscription costs 19.99$ and in Europe 9.99 euros. (~ $ 12) 

But you still have not heard the main thing. SONOS restricts users from the right to use purchased equipment if you do not provide location information. For many years, SONOS did not require this information, and since September it began to demand.

As stated, this is nothing new.  You had to give Sonos your location when you first set it up, otherwise, it would not be working today.  Stop with the silly lawsuit nonsense, any lawyer who hears your case will laugh you out of their office.  

SONOS has never claimed your location. You are apparently mistaken.

 

Not mistaken at all.  You needed to give a location in order to satisfy geo-blocking, and to list your local stations via TuneIn.  This has been required since I first purchased in 2008, and you could not have registered Sonos without it.  Your lawsuit is nonsense, and any lawyer worth their salt is going to spot that fact within 30 seconds.  

Userlevel 7
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I’m loving the title “Joint Lawsuit”.  That does require others to be interested in joining, which does not appear to be the case!? Good luck with that.

Once again, specifying the zip code in your account is not the same as requiring a location on a GPS signal. If you have not previously specified a zip code in your account, your equipment continued to work. Now if you do not provide a signal from the GPS you cannot use the equipment.You feel the difference?

 

Sonos could never work without a zip code entry, so no, I do not “feel the difference”.

Tell you what, put your money where your mouth is. Stop all the blustering and go consult a lawyer.  When you get a docket number, post it here.  Until then, stop wasting bandwidth. 

 

I rebooted the playbar to the factory settings

It’s an ‘as-new' product then. You must go through initial setup once more, just the same as any new purchaser would.

I rebooted the playbar to the factory settings

It’s an ‘as-new' product then. You must go through initial setup once more, just the same as any new purchaser would.

 

Quite true.  A factory reset effectively de-registers the product.  Any re-registry requires agreement to the current terms. 

*whooosh*

What’s that I hear?  Why, it sounds like any chance of a case is flushing down the commode.  

While it might not be the case with some speakers out there, Sonos devices are much more than just speakers. They are computers that are designed to play music as a system, synchronized and controllable across multiple devices and platforms. I get that you disagree on what you think is a basic function, but Sonos devices need to be running the same software build on all devices, which makes updating at the beginning an important part of the setup process, and a core function.

Here is a short list of examples for devices that can also be used to stream and use all kinds of internet services, but don’t force users to create a personal profile and transfer personal data including location data to the manufacturer in order to just set them up for local use and don’t de facto brick them if the legal right to opt-out of these practices is desired:

  • Smartphones
  • Computers
  • Routers

Again, there is no technical justification to do this! This is pure (and in the EU illegal) data hording. Even software updates DO NOT technically require registration and collection of personal data.

I think the background for removing the option to set up a Sonos system with the desktop app is also pretty clear now, since those machines don’t have GPS.

Userlevel 7
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Legally, you are right. 

Then legally you are in that case wrong.  Why not just give a false location?

 Of course, SONOS always had the opportunity to determine the region of use using IP

 

 Because it is not possible to determine your location from a computer. 

 

 

Make up your mind, will you!

 

 

 

 

Userlevel 3
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Legally, you are right. 

Then legally you are in that case wrong.  Why not just give a false location?

It is not possible to indicate the false location))) The SONOS application requires the provision of a signal from a GPS iPhone. If I block access to the GPS signal, the application refuses to configure the equipment. This has not happened before. This requirement appeared in SONOS starting from 13 iOS. And earlier, SONOS disabled the ability to configure equipment from a computer. Because it is not possible to determine your location from a computer. This is where users swear: https://en.community.sonos.com/troubleshooting-228999/cannot-add-speaker-with-new-desktop-controller-app-update-6815782

@Ryan S can you please explain why Sonos requires location permissions in the app to set up a speaker and will not allow you to proceed without granting it?  

Your privacy statement hasn't been updated since March 2019. Will you be updating the policy to let us know how and why this is collected or not, transferred and stored or not and shared or not with third parties?

 

Userlevel 3
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 Of course, SONOS always had the opportunity to determine the region of use using IP

 

 Because it is not possible to determine your location from a computer. 

 

 

Make up your mind, will you!

 

 

 

 

I don't know if you are purposely trolling this poster but they've been clear that the issue is with location from their phone which they  seem to think can be very precise, rather than zip/postal code or region which isn't or ip which they can use a VPN to mask.

Correct them if they are wrong.

It seems that Calyptotis does not have any objection to spoof their IP to get cheaper Tidal - isn't that a form of fraud, by the way? - So why not spoof your GPS coordinates, if I'm not mistaken there are ways to do this.

 

Anyhow, I've noticed that the setup process of many wifi-devices requires GPS location access, apparently to ascertain which devices are near you. Is this not a feature from the operating systems and should the OP therefore not also be suing  Apple and Google?

 

Something puzzles me, why does a recently played list on ‘my sonos’ screen require logging into a remote server? I’m holding a super computer in my hand, yet the Sonos app can’t remember what I just played without help from the internet? I’m also getting prompted to log in when tapping the volume limit item in settings.

What next?… volume up request  > *login required* > authenticate > geo-confirm >  volume up??

Still new to Sonos, not liking all this account dependency, but I am liking other aspects such as getting the speakers to work with Hubitat (a refreshingly good platform that doesn’t need any sign-up), and adding a 2nd play:5 for stereo pair. Adding the 2nd, I noticed the geo-location requirement, and not impressed!

 

Just FYI, your phone/tablet is just a controller, and doesn’t store information about your system such as what was last played.  The reason is that you can have multiple controllers for the system.  Instead of making sure every possible controller, is updated with last played information, the controller software will go get that information when requested.  I believe the information is stored on the Sonos devices themselves, not on a remote server, but could be wrong about that. 

Userlevel 3
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It seems that Calyptotis does not have any objection to spoof their IP to get cheaper Tidal - isn't that a form of fraud, by the way? - So why not spoof your GPS coordinates, if I'm not mistaken there are ways to do this.

 

If not fraud extremely unethical. 

 

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