Dead Play:5 need schematics or tips



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For me the voltage on that pin grows slowly, then falls to 5-10v or so, then starts climbing again and repeating the cycle.  Even when I inject 13V to that spot from a bench supply it doesn’t help.

Typical SMPS supplies switches a high voltage via a MOSFET into the primary side of the transformer.  That switching is controlled by the 2QS02G.  I tried replacing it with no luck, and couldn’t find anything else off around it.  What I did find though, was that the high voltage was 160V.  I measured it as marked in the attached image.  This is a problem for me, since when I measured a known good device, the voltage was 274V.  The 160V seems to just be the rectified AC, and is not boosted to 274.  I can’t figure out the mechanism that is causing the 274V to be produced, so am stumped.  Any ideas?

 

Hello,

From what I understand now, your board does not start, when the voltage on 2QS02 goes up to 20 and the chip powers on, there must be an error that makes the chip to shut down immediately, thus not self-sustaining to 13V. The power on the caps is simple rectified by the bridge, try to measure on another type of switch power supply. Me I got-it from 110V AC so it goes around that 160V I believe ( I did not wrote down the value. Yours if it is 220VAC so it might be 274 or a bit higher rectified. Maybe your rectifier bridge is broken ( one diode is interrupted, so it’s half of the voltage. This driver chip checks for the voltage, locks for undervoltage. The rectifier is your problem. Check for that.

Regards

 

I don't think that’s right.  My input is 113V, and the rectifier is producing 160V (as expected … ie: 113*1.414).  If I had 220V, then I would expect to see 320V coming from the rectifier.

The 274V that I measured was from a working unit… not the one that doesn’t work.  It could be that when the system is oscillating properly, my meter is getting a bad reading due to the high frequencies present and some kind of induced voltage into the supply.  SMPS oscillators often oscillate well above 100kz, and perhaps my meter isn’t giving an accurate measurement at this kind of frequency.  If my broken board isn’t oscillating, I’m just getting the 60hz rectified output, and hence the 160V.

I just checked for the undervoltage condition.  According to the datasheet, there is a resistor divider network.  That seems to be set with Rvins1=1.5M, and Rvin2=20k.  With the internal Vref of 1.25V, the shutoff voltage would be 95V (1.25*(1520000/20000)).  I never see my rectifier output drop below 160V so I don’t think that’s the problem.

I think that my next step may be to check for an overload condition.  The output on the low voltage side of the transformer is fed through a dual inductor.  I may try to remove that and see if that stabilizes the input.

Yes, you are right I was not right… Got carried away with the 220V possibility.. It must be then an overload condition somewhere since the under voltage part is fine. The excessive current detection is thru one of the vertical big resistors I believe. It sucks there is no schematic to do precise measurements, maybe it’s value changed… Hope you will find the cause of this and let us know the fix for the future.

Regards

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Hi there,

My sonos play 5 power board had some overvoltage and some parts are blown.

I managed to bring it back to life bij mounting a new PCB fuse3.15A and 2 capacitors 47K275V-X2

2 other components are broken and i cant determine what type they where.

Its about TH27700 at the inlet AC current side, i asume this is a NTC or PTC.

Also MOV27700 is broken, this should be a varistor after the first filter coils.

 

Does anyone know the partnumbers of these 2 components? You would realy help me out.

 

Thnx a lot!

The MOV27700 varistor is marked “TVR14471*”.  TH27700 is an NTC thermistor “SCK 054”.

Good luck!

 

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Yes, you are right I was not right… Got carried away with the 220V possibility.. It must be then an overload condition somewhere since the under voltage part is fine. The excessive current detection is thru one of the vertical big resistors I believe. It sucks there is no schematic to do precise measurements, maybe it’s value changed… Hope you will find the cause of this and let us know the fix for the future.

Regards

I agree that it could be an overload problem.  I removed the triple-inductor that sits between the power supply and the actual Sonos.  With this out, the device still cycles power, which tells me that the problem is in the power supply rather than downstream.

So now I guess I’ll have to measure everything and compare to the working unit that I have.  I did check the large resistors and all the diodes a while ago with no luck.  There seems to be a lot of transistors at the front end of this supply… not sure what that’s all for given the sample schematic for the 2QSxxx doesn’t have them.

Measuring the output of the supply (on a working play:5), I see that it provides 12V and 24V supplies.  That's helpful to know… If nothing else works, then I can just install an entirely new AC/DC supply - there seems to be lots of room inside the speaker.  I did this with a play:1 once and it worked great.

 

Hi there,

My sonos play 5 power board had some overvoltage and some parts are blown.

I managed to bring it back to life bij mounting a new PCB fuse3.15A and 2 capacitors 47K275V-X2

2 other components are broken and i cant determine what type they where.

Its about TH27700 at the inlet AC current side, i asume this is a NTC or PTC.

Also MOV27700 is broken, this should be a varistor after the first filter coils.

 

Does anyone know the partnumbers of these 2 components? You would realy help me out.

 

Thnx a lot!

The MOV27700 varistor is marked “TVR14471*”.  TH27700 is an NTC thermistor “SCK 054”.

Good luck!

 

Thanx a lot Tim! Tomorrow i!ll go shopping ;-)

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Here is the best I’ve found on debugging Sonos Play:5 hardware issues:

https://sites.google.com/site/sonosdebug/power-topology

The author includes reverse-engineered information about jtag, serial port, connector, and the power supply (including a very helpful partial circuit diagram)!

There is nothing about the actual power amp.  I have seen a few of these go bad and had only marginal success fixing them.  One finding I did have was that a unit with missing bass had some of the driver ICs not having power.  It turned out that some of the internal traces had burned out between the driver chips.  I jumpered all of the power pins of the 6 ICs together (and all of the grounds too, for good measure), and it solved the problem.

If you have NO sound from the amplifier, then check the biases identified on the schematic and make sure that all of them (12v, 3.3V, 11.1V, 5V) are working.

Hi Tim,

Is your play 5 having issue of very soft volume? Then you jumpered the traces and that fixed it?

 

Hi.  Sorry for the late response.  I was locked out… Can't log in

The problem that I had was that of the 5 speakers, some were working and others were not.  I found that some of the driver chips did not have power and was able to add power to them… after which it all worked again.  Here is a picture of what I jumpered.  I think that this was not the complete job… but you should get the idea from here.

 

Thanks Tim. Unfortunately my play 5 issue is not the same issue. All the pins have 5V to it. Headphone out is working fine, just the all speakers have a very faint sound. 
 

 

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Last resort is to add in a class D amp to it. Not ideal at all, but at least, sound is back.

 

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Last resort is to add in a class D amp to it. Not ideal at all, but at least, sound is back.

 

There are a fair number of play:5 units for sale on ebay from time to time - many of which are in recycle mode.  If you pick one of those up, the power/audio board is often in good working condition, and you can swap that into your unit.  There’s a bit of risk to this, as the play:5 may have had an audio problem before it was bricked, but perhaps the seller can tell you the history, or you can take a bet on the purchase.

Yes, you are right I was not right… Got carried away with the 220V possibility.. It must be then an overload condition somewhere since the under voltage part is fine. The excessive current detection is thru one of the vertical big resistors I believe. It sucks there is no schematic to do precise measurements, maybe it’s value changed… Hope you will find the cause of this and let us know the fix for the future.

Regards

I agree that it could be an overload problem.  I removed the triple-inductor that sits between the power supply and the actual Sonos.  With this out, the device still cycles power, which tells me that the problem is in the power supply rather than downstream.

So now I guess I’ll have to measure everything and compare to the working unit that I have.  I did check the large resistors and all the diodes a while ago with no luck.  There seems to be a lot of transistors at the front end of this supply… not sure what that’s all for given the sample schematic for the 2QSxxx doesn’t have them.

Measuring the output of the supply (on a working play:5), I see that it provides 12V and 24V supplies.  That's helpful to know… If nothing else works, then I can just install an entirely new AC/DC supply - there seems to be lots of room inside the speaker.  I did this with a play:1 once and it worked great.

 

Hi,

how much power needs play5? I found a power supply. If it is fits (physical and electrical) I will buy and install it. 

Size: 16 * 10 * 4cm

Can you tell me which pins should I connect  24 and 12 volt in play5 mainboard?

This one is at amazon.de 14€, I think it is fair price.

 

 

 

Last resort is to add in a class D amp to it. Not ideal at all, but at least, sound is back.

 

How was the sound out of that class D Amp?

If decent, what brand model, and where did you connect? It looks like directly off of the wifi/controller board?

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Last resort is to add in a class D amp to it. Not ideal at all, but at least, sound is back.

 

How was the sound out of that class D Amp?

If decent, what brand model, and where did you connect? It looks like directly off of the wifi/controller board?

At low volume, I can hear the static noises. That will go away when I increase the volume. I got it from AliExpress.
Running at 12V and I may try to use 24V if that helps on the static. The connection is to the headphone out on the wifi board. Hope that helps.

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Hi,

how much power needs play5? I found a power supply. If it is fits (physical and electrical) I will buy and install it. 

Size: 16 * 10 * 4cm

Can you tell me which pins should I connect  24 and 12 volt in play5 mainboard?

This one is at amazon.de 14€, I think it is fair price.

 

That power supply looks like it should work.  I don’t know what the maximum rated power of the Play:5 is, but that one looks like 70 Watts… For me that’s more than enough volume.

As far as connections… There is a triple inductor between the power supply and the downstream electronics.  The purpose of that inductor is to filter noise.  You could hook up to either side of the inductor (since your power supply will have filtering in it), but I would hook up to the inductor on the power supply side.  This way, the outputs from your supply will pass through the inductor and be filtered.  I’ve annotated the 12V, GND, and 24V in the attached image.

There is a small chance that the problem with the power supply circuit will prevent just adding power to the board.  In this case, you would need to separate the built-in power supply from the downstream components.  I would do that by just removing the inductor (desolder it, or cut the legs of it off and remove it).  If you do this, then you will need to connect to the three connection points directly above the ones that I marked (the order is the same as I labelled).

Good luck!

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The space is pretty tight inside the play5. I don’t think you can fit in the power supply. 

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The space is pretty tight inside the play5. I don’t think you can fit in the power supply. 

True.  Another option is to have the replacement power supply in a separate enclosure with just the low voltage 12v/12v fed in through a small hold in the back.  The supply can be hidden quite far away from the speaker, if that's what your setup requires.

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The space is pretty tight inside the play5. I don’t think you can fit in the power supply. 

True.  Another option is to have the replacement power supply in a separate enclosure with just the low voltage 12v/12v fed in through a small hold in the back.  The supply can be hidden quite far away from the speaker, if that's what your setup requires.

Yet another option…

24v ‘brick’ power supply… https://www.amazon.com/JOVNO-100-240V-Transformer-Converter-5-5x2-5mm/dp/B0875ZSKGR

And this installed inside the enclosure: https://www.amazon.com/EPBOWPT-Converter-Regulator-Voltage-Transformer/dp/B07V6X6L89

 

The space is pretty tight inside the play5. I don’t think you can fit in the power supply. 

True.  Another option is to have the replacement power supply in a separate enclosure with just the low voltage 12v/12v fed in through a small hold in the back.  The supply can be hidden quite far away from the speaker, if that's what your setup requires.

Yet another option…

24v ‘brick’ power supply… https://www.amazon.com/JOVNO-100-240V-Transformer-Converter-5-5x2-5mm/dp/B0875ZSKGR

And this installed inside the enclosure: https://www.amazon.com/EPBOWPT-Converter-Regulator-Voltage-Transformer/dp/B07V6X6L89

 

Is there any problem if use a laptop adapter 20V instead of 24V input? I have some adapters here and don’t want to buy any extras. 

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A definite maybe.

  1. You need to worry about wattage as much as voltage.  You would want to use a supply with enough wattage.  95% of music I play is not so loud that I can’t have a conversation around it… That kind of level would be fine with 20 watts.  I just looked at a Lenovo laptop adapter.  It is marked output 20V 2.25A.  That works out to 20*2.25=45 watts (before anyone jumps in to say this isn’t right -- it’s close enough for this conversation).  Most laptop adapters should have enough wattage to work
  2. Most amplifiers will operate with a range of input voltages.  You may get clipping or dropouts if you try to turn the volume up to a point beyond what the power supply can manage.  Below that level it would work ok.  If something is designed to work with 24V, and you feed it 20V, then you can expect a maximum output wattage of about 70% of the designed output.  (This is calculated as (20/24)^2 ).
  3. Sonos is not necessarily “most amplifiers”.  I have done a ton of work with ZP120 repairs.  Those operate with several internal voltages.  In particular, the audio section works at about 15 volts, until you turn the volume up... then a 36 Volt circuit comes on.  The ZP120 has a voltage sensing circuit in it, and if the 36V circuit does not activate properly, it reports an error and ramps the volume down to about 10%.  My experience is that this circuit must be 36V -- not 30V and not even 40V.
  4. I don’t know if the Play:5 has the same kind of voltage detection as the ZP120 or not.  I was once able to disable the voltage sensing circuit in a ZP120 and drive it with a different voltage, but it isn’t really a practical fix for the ZP120, let along the Play:5

So the upshot is that you won’t damage anything by hooking it to a 12V and 20V supply (instead of 12V and 24V).  The worst is that it doesn’t work (but it won’t do any permanent damage)

Some more on wattage…

Sonos speaker wattages are not (as far as I know) published.  It’s also hard to reverse engineer, since it is not driving 1 or two simple speakers.  There are 5 separate amplifier circuits for the 5 speakers.  I have measured the 5 speakers, and they seem to be 7 ohm tweeters, 3 ohm mids, and 3.6 ohm bass.  There is also some crossover and equalizer circuitry.  If I make some very coarse assumptions, then I calculate a maximum wattage of 200 Watts.  Paring this back for crossovers, as well as frequency impedance curves, I’d be surprised if a 70 Watt supply wasn’t more than sufficient.  (and if you’re using a 20 Volt supply, then apply the above 70%, and you’d be ok with a 50 watt adapter).  This seems to me to be more than reasonable from another angle… when I look at the circuitry of the power supply, it ‘seems’ to match these kinds of numbers based on its physical size.

 

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Folks, I see some questions regarding Play 5 with low sound at max volume. I just created another post with a fix for this issue.

Fix for Play 5 with low volume

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Im going to piggyback onto this discussion to see if someone can help me out.

I have a Power supply issue with an issue on the switching side.

The unit has no power. 

Replaced most of the power side caps, rectifier, fuse, FET IC Driver, FET, (Also smt 120K resistor near the rectifier was blown.)

I feel like im close, but I have this problem where the voltage starts at 5v ramps up to 15v and then bumps back down to 5v to repeat the process.  Thought maybe a diode, but I cant find it.

When i remove the little 25v 100uf Cap between the two big filtering caps, the fluctuation goes away.  Still get no power though.

 

Any Thoughts?

 

Check the resistor R27825, this is 10Ohm I believe. Normally not visible due to the extensive glue on the board. I had a similar case where there was no power at all. I didn't check in detail but I think this resistor is part of a control loop. Another issue where replacing a single resistor restores services.

 

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Here is the best I’ve found on debugging Sonos Play:5 hardware issues:

https://sites.google.com/site/sonosdebug/power-topology

The author includes reverse-engineered information about jtag, serial port, connector, and the power supply (including a very helpful partial circuit diagram)!

There is nothing about the actual power amp.  I have seen a few of these go bad and had only marginal success fixing them.  One finding I did have was that a unit with missing bass had some of the driver ICs not having power.  It turned out that some of the internal traces had burned out between the driver chips.  I jumpered all of the power pins of the 6 ICs together (and all of the grounds too, for good measure), and it solved the problem.

If you have NO sound from the amplifier, then check the biases identified on the schematic and make sure that all of them (12v, 3.3V, 11.1V, 5V) are working.

Hi Tim,

Is your play 5 having issue of very soft volume? Then you jumpered the traces and that fixed it?

 

Hi.  Sorry for the late response.  I was locked out… Can't log in

The problem that I had was that of the 5 speakers, some were working and others were not.  I found that some of the driver chips did not have power and was able to add power to them… after which it all worked again.  Here is a picture of what I jumpered.  I think that this was not the complete job… but you should get the idea from here.

 

Thanks Tim. Unfortunately my play 5 issue is not the same issue. All the pins have 5V to it. Headphone out is working fine, just the all speakers have a very faint sound. 
 

 

Faint sound at max volume? Check this.

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God news my sonos Play 5 sings


I have changed the small chip that controls the mosfet
2QS02G
I also changed the rectifier MBR20150TC, but I do not thing it was defect. I broke it during the removal. I had to take it out to read the type. And therefore had to install a new one.

also changed 5 pcs electrolytic capacitors 820uf 35V

Power issue

 

Hello, I happen to have a Gen 1 with similar power issue, I see on your picture you changed the chip.

In my case there is no power on the pin 7 of the small driver IC. I cannot figure out from where it gets the power. I manually power the chip with an external 12 V on that capacitor you solder the blue wire. And the power gets back alive! But it’s not self sustaining and as soon as I remove the external Vcc for the IC it goes back to silence. There must be a component I cannot see on the pcb to supply power to the IC.  The small cap 100uF 25V has a connection with the power of the driver IC but I cannot figure-it out. Any ideas? Thanks

Check this resistor circled in red, R27825. Should be 10 Ohm. In one of my Play 5's it died. Another example of a cheap part killing an expensive speaker

Hello, thanks for the picture.

I have-it fixed finally but I do not know the cause. Here it is in words and pictures:

First, small cap (C27854) is not charging from the AC side, those are probably discharge resistors to the remaining capacity in the filtering caps. It’s another mechanism I could not figure out. The C27854 is providing power to the ICE2QS02 driver chip. It goes thru all those small diodes and caps on the edge of the board. The normal behavior on the voltage for C27854 is that is charging up to around 20V slowly and then ( some of those diodes and transistors do that) turns on the power on the ICE2QS02. 

Once the chip is starting the voltage is self sustaining to around 13 V, I do not understand from where, maybe from the fly back transformer winding itself. 

So for me the challenge was to produce the charging of the C27854 up to 20 to start up the IC. I did this by putting 2 390Kohm from the + on the big caps. I monitor the voltage and it’s ramping up slow, like a second or two. After it reaches 20V the IC starts and it self sustain to 13V. It’s 3 days already and still works! meaning there is no other fail. There was no problem in the fuse or rectifier, nothing burned. As you can see the LED turns on with the 2 resistors soldered. This is the story of this fix.

The 2 390Kohm resistors from plus to C27854
Final resistors placement
Final result, The power led turns ON!

 

I have no power on pin 7 on ICE2QS02 and when i measure on C27854 it goes from 9 to 18 VDC in a 2-3 second loop, is this the same behaviour as you had?

My Play:5 working again. If nothing helps you can power it with an external adapter.

My setup: 

  • A laptop power adapter (20V - 6A)
  • DC-DC converter (24-12V)
  • DC connector (female)

The power is enough for max volume and there is no problem.

Thanks for the advice.

 

 

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My Play:5 working again. If nothing helps you can power it with an external adapter.

My setup: 

  • A laptop power adapter (20V - 6A)
  • DC-DC converter (24-12V)
  • DC connector (female)

The power is enough for max volume and there is no problem.

Thanks for the advice.

 

 

You beat me to it by a few hours!  Nice job!

I just repaired mine too.  I ordered a 24V/4A power supply very cheap on AMazon… $18CAD https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08NYHM4J9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 .  I chose this one because it was 250 grams, approximately 95 watts, and the size seemed like it would fit -inside- the case.

I had a few DC-DC converters on hand like this: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07Y88RTXJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I was fortunately able to fit everything inside the case.  I piggybacked the 120V supply to the AC-DC supply from the existing socket, and connected my DC-DC converter at the triple inductor like I had suggested a week or so ago.  I opened the power supply case, removed the existing wires, and soldered it all in directly.  I had to trim the two bass reflex ports about an inch, and was able to position the brick just below those centered between the two mid speakers at the back of the case.  I wrapped the PS brick it in a sheet of foam to avoid vibration.  It’s a snug fit, but everything went together perfectly.  There is no vibration, and I can’t tell the sound difference between this and an unmodified speaker.

 

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Hi,

I have a new problem with my play 5.

2 components were blown Q27507/Q27502.

2 components shorted, Q27509/27503.

I think the part numbers are 34N B1. What are these? Mosfet? Appreciate it if anyone can share the part numbers of that 4 components in yellow box. Thks!!

 

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Hi,

I have a new problem with my play 5.

2 components were blown Q27507/Q27502.

2 components shorted, Q27509/27503.

I think the part numbers are 34N B1. What are these? Mosfet? Appreciate it if anyone can share the part numbers of that 4 components in yellow box. Thks!

 

On my board, all 4 of those components are the same, and are labelled DMB B8.  That is a DMP3098L (P-CHANNEL ENHANCEMENT MODE MOSFET  https://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/405103/DIODES/DMP3098L.html?)

The really weird part though is that “34N” is a different device!  That’s an N-channel mosfet:  https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/ds31787.pdf

Good luck!

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