Question

BBC Sport commentaries

  • 4 February 2015
  • 54 replies
  • 7448 views

When listening to BBC Radio 5, when a commentary starts I get a message that due to rights restrictions I cannot listen to this item. If i then move off of that station for a moment and then come back to BBC Radio 5 live the commentary plays fine. So it seems I somehow have to "reset" my stream. I am in the UK and am sure that these are not matches to which there really is a rights restriction as demonstrated by the fact that i can listen to them after this reset.
Any help appreciated - thank you

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54 replies

Userlevel 4
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That's a strange one. I've had the rights issue message on occasions with 5 Live commentaries, but only with Champions League matches (where the BBC has the terrestrial radio rights in the UK but not the internet streaming rights ). The rights restriction message stops once the broadcast reverts to other programmes. I wonder if somehow you are picking up a non-UK stream first time round? I can imagine that much more content would have rights restrictions outside the UK. Then maybe when you move off the station and back again, you pick up a UK stream? How are you accessing 5 Live - via Tune-in (ie the standard Sonos radio route) or through a custom radio station (where you have to enter the URL for the stream)? And where are you located??
These are domestic matches such as Bolton Liverpool last night in the FA cup.
I live in Essex so definitely the UK !
I just use TuneIn so nothing complicated there.
No VPN or similar so nothing that would disguise my location.
If I leave station and then come back to it is fine which is most puzzling bit
There is only one option when you search for R5L
I have reset my router and connection but has made no difference.

This has come out of the blue after using the same service in the same way forever - no obvious changes to this.

Thanks for any help
Same here with Radio 1, also in the UK
Userlevel 7
Badge +26
We're looking into this with TuneIn as well for you all. BBC removed the radio streams in WMA format and only the MP3 formatted ones are up still. It seems some of those MP3 streams may be international and geolocked broadcasts are getting denied access.

You can find the BBC blog post regarding this issue here.

If you're interested in hearing more when we have new information you can follow our thread on the streams here.

Thanks
This update and information is very enlightening - thank you Ryan.

So my take on this is:
1. TuneIn are entirely innocent (this time anyway!)
2. The BBC have consolidated their broadcast in to one international stream and so while that is the case there is nothing anyone will be able to do about this issue.

Reading the blog and the comments thereon it is clear that many users are suffering badly from these changes - Sonos does not seem to badly hit from my perspective apart from this rights issue. There are some Sonos users on that blog page who do seem to be having issues though but not sure what those would be.

In the blog it says:

"These are still very early days for Audio Factory and we have been very focused on getting the service live. There are still some local stations in mono, and our full range of bit rates and delivery methods have yet to be rolled out. As we continue to develop the service we will carefully monitor our services and their usage to provide the best quality and value."

Hopefully this means that this issue will be dealt with in due course but no guarantees.

Ryan - do you know anything about their intentions in this regard ?

Also has anyone found a work around ? i have plugged my iPhone or computer into a line-in and streamed into Sonos via the BBC sports app. Does anyone have a more elgant solution using a Sonos service or function ?
Userlevel 7
Badge +26
This update and information is very enlightening - thank you Ryan.

So my take on this is:
1. TuneIn are entirely innocent (this time anyway!)
2. The BBC have consolidated their broadcast in to one international stream and so while that is the case there is nothing anyone will be able to do about this issue.

Reading the blog and the comments thereon it is clear that many users are suffering badly from these changes - Sonos does not seem to badly hit from my perspective apart from this rights issue. There are some Sonos users on that blog page who do seem to be having issues though but not sure what those would be.

In the blog it says:

"These are still very early days for Audio Factory and we have been very focused on getting the service live. There are still some local stations in mono, and our full range of bit rates and delivery methods have yet to be rolled out. As we continue to develop the service we will carefully monitor our services and their usage to provide the best quality and value."

Hopefully this means that this issue will be dealt with in due course but no guarantees.

Ryan - do you know anything about their intentions in this regard ?

Also has anyone found a work around ? i have plugged my iPhone or computer into a line-in and streamed into Sonos via the BBC sports app. Does anyone have a more elgant solution using a Sonos service or function ?


We're still looking into this so I don't want to speculate too much at an early stage. We'll update you when there's more information though. Please let us know if anything changes or if you have any trouble. We're here to help.
Userlevel 4
Badge +9
I understand Ryan's caution and unwillingness to speculate. But I would not pin your hopes on the development of the Audio Factory service solving this issue - the Audio Factory is the infrastructure for the BBC's HLS/HDS/DASH delivery mechanisms, which it is migrating all its radio services to. But Sonos, like most/all other internet-connected hifi, can't handle HLS/HDS/DASH. We are stuck with having to use the hobbled mp3 SHOUTcast streams that the BBC is leaving running for now for 'internet radio device' users , and the BBC has decided that these should be set for the lowest common denominator - hence they are 128kbps, mp3, international streams with rights restrictions. Unless the BBC has a change of mind (unlikely, however much we complain), or Sonos and/or Tunein can come up with a way to handle the HLS streams, we are sunk.
Userlevel 7
Badge +22
Withanee,

Is there a technical limitation that means Sonos can never implement HLS/HDS/DASH?  True today but it is it a limitation most can't overcome in time?
Thank you Chris

I don't really want to spend £80 on an airport express - i have all the network infrastructure I need. The Air Sonos clearly would work although I don't really understand how to install - I am sure there is some help somewhere here if needed.

Leaving that aside I would be really distressed if the simplicity of my system where i just choose BBC Radio 5 live from my favourites and listen to it like any other station was lost due to this BBC upgrade (Hah!).
I had already been in touch with Tunein before Ryan explained what was going on and they had undertaken to contact the BBC. Hopefully the pressure from them and the very angry postings on the BBC blog will result in a change of heart and they turn the old system back on until such time as they can implement a better solution. I would hope that Ryan and Sonos will also push on this, as this sort of limitation on the usage of the system will not help their sales pitch ! 

I hope that Withanee's pessimism is misplaced. The great attraction of Sonos is its accessibility and simplicity not just for me but for my whole family to use so to have to install Air Sonos or undertake some similar procedure just to listen to something as simple as a football commentary in my own country would be a sad state of affairs.

Fingers crossed that Jim at the BBC pulls his finger out.
Userlevel 7
Badge +22
Simon - on a windows computer on your network follow the steps here for AirSonos:

https://github.com/stephen/airsonos/releases

If you have any trouble let me know.  It was pretty straight forward when I did it and I can tell you its pretty neat.  Took me like 10 minutes from start to finish to install.  Hardest part was filling out the Apple form to subscribe to get the Bonjour program.

When you have it running on your desktop your iphone will have all of your Sonos speakers listed as Airplay speakers so you can send your iphone BBC sound to any of them.
Userlevel 4
Badge +9
Withanee,

Is there a technical limitation that means Sonos can never implement HLS/HDS/DASH?  True today but it is it a limitation most can't overcome in time?


Fair question, and I don't know the answer. i have read things that give me cause for concern though. I'm hoping Ryan will come back with an official statement.
Userlevel 7
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The stations do work don't they.  Your just getting the lower quality, no sports International feeds.
Userlevel 7
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Yea - I just checked I do get the Radio 5 live feed just fine.  The complaint is that it is the international feed which is only 128k quality and doesn't have any UK only sports (due to rights issues).
Chris - I gave in and installed air sonos which went fine but it only works when the script is run and cmd window open. when this is closed air sonos stops. Is this correct or am i doing something wrong.
Was hoping for some function that was always on.and available
Userlevel 7
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Yes I just minimize the command box. The author says he is working on it running as a service.
I have been following the debate on this issue. A new posting has been made by Henry Webster the head of media services at the BBC. He says:

"Radio 5 listeners worried about sport being blanked from our streams – Our new ShoutCast streams are unrestricted which means that we can make them available both in the UK and globally, this significantly simplifies how they are served, but does mean that users whose devices can only receive the ShoutCast stream and not one of the new HTTP streaming formats will hear a version of the stream which will blank sport where the BBC does not hold international rights. The new HTTP streams are available in both UK and international variants, which allows those in the UK to continue to enjoy the Sport that we broadcast as usual. We are investigating to see whether there is anything we can do to return access to the UK streams for those who are affected by this"
 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/2ff95543-7547-4b2d-9305-563428fb74f5

I have tried looking at the http streams but as far as I can see these do not work on Sonos. I am a techno dufus so can someone more competent and / or someone from Sonos confirm that there is no stream with UK only rights attached that we can be manually adding and using.

They say they are looking into solving this but no guarantees of course.
Userlevel 2
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I tried manually adding one of the new HLS streams to my Sonos desktop controller and silence,, guessing HLS is not supported ? Would like to get an official answer that Sonos does not support HLS, was amazed to see this equipment now being described as legacy by the BBC engineers, not a great sales pitch for Sonos!
So this has been a shock to the system. I have listened to the bbc radio channels on sonos for over a year and recently bought sonos 5's to replace my hi-Fi kit, now it is useless for bbc radio. Who can I get a refund from ?
Userlevel 7
Badge +22
Have you ready any of this. BBC radio still works just not local feed and at reduced quality. There are workarounds even this right now with Sonos working on a permanent solution. Refund - discuss wih where you purchased. Sonos itself has shown commitment to resolution and they did not cause the issue.
On my system the reduced quality is unlistenable., it pauses about every ten minutes for minutes at a time. Impossible to follow a discussion. And the football does not play at all. Im encouraged at your confidence that sonos will resolve this
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled BBC Radio 5 Live problems. Hi John. I have a play 3 & want to connect to the local radio station - Radio Leicester to listen to Live sports commentary - I can do this on any old radio but Sonos & the computer gives a message "this si te is not supported" - I though All radio stations were on the Internet ---anybody know a way round it please as im getting loads of Earache when the rubbishy Footballs on
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This is really frustrating, I no longer have an alternative radio in my house. The irony is that I used to live in Australia and could listen live to UK restricted sports commentary using a VPN service. Now I have to plug my iPhone into the Sonos Connect and use BBC iPlayer, which is not really the point of spending a fortune on a wireless system. Surely Sonos can sort this out, I appreciate it may have been caused by the BBC, but it is the Sonos system that does not allow alternative formats that work on other streaming platforms.
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This update and information is very enlightening - thank you Ryan.

So my take on this is:
1. TuneIn are entirely innocent (this time anyway!)
2. The BBC have consolidated their broadcast in to one international stream and so while that is the case there is nothing anyone will be able to do about this issue.

Reading the blog and the comments thereon it is clear that many users are suffering badly from these changes - Sonos does not seem to badly hit from my perspective apart from this rights issue. There are some Sonos users on that blog page who do seem to be having issues though but not sure what those would be.

In the blog it says:

"These are still very early days for Audio Factory and we have been very focused on getting the service live. There are still some local stations in mono, and our full range of bit rates and delivery methods have yet to be rolled out. As we continue to develop the service we will carefully monitor our services and their usage to provide the best quality and value."

Hopefully this means that this issue will be dealt with in due course but no guarantees.

Ryan - do you know anything about their intentions in this regard ?

Also has anyone found a work around ? i have plugged my iPhone or computer into a line-in and streamed into Sonos via the BBC sports app. Does anyone have a more elgant solution using a Sonos service or function ?


This was 2 months ago Sonos - why hasn't there been an update in 2 months?
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A month since any update at all from Sonos which considering the cost of equipment is simply staggering.....
Userlevel 7
Badge +26
A month since any update at all from Sonos which considering the cost of equipment is simply staggering.....
The HLS discussion has been going on in a different thread which can found here. We'll making sure to keep it up to date with the lastest information we have to share. Currently the status is that we're working on developing support for HLS streaming on Sonos players so that we can connect with the new streams that the BBC is using.

The BBC Sport stations are having trouble because the MP3 streams that are available are international only, and don't have local content available. The BBC has said that they're looking into addressing this, but so far we don't have any news. We'll let you know if this changes.

Thanks, and let us know if you have any further questions.